Was the holocaust due in part to the Jewish people rejecting Jesus?

Was the holocaust due in part to the Jewish people rejecting Jesus?

  • Yes

    Votes: 9 14.5%
  • No

    Votes: 47 75.8%
  • Mixed response

    Votes: 5 8.1%
  • Other

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
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JackRT

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:brokenheart: truly heartbreaking.

He told me he was 15 when the Gestapo kicked in the front door of his house and he went out a back window. That was the last time he saw his parents or siblings. He said "I lived like an animal for a year before they caught me."
 
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Carl Emerson

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Can I suggest that it is somewhat serious to attribute the works of Satan to God... You will notice in the case of Job that God set limits on his activities. He did so in this case also or none would have survived.
It is equally serious to attribute the Works of God to Satan as we all know. Some are inclined to do this and in so doing have to twist and snip the Scriptures.
 
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Carl Emerson

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You need to prove it from scripture. You cannot have genuine faith which comes from hearing the word unless you can.

True faith which comes from hearing the Word of Christ is not the Scripture it is His Breathed Word which may come through reading or may not.
 
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Dave L

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True faith which comes from hearing the Word of Christ is not the Scripture it is His Breathed Word which may come through reading or may not.
Right, and he speaks through every crackpot on the loose today. People who hear voices and think it is God are craZY.
 
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AvisG

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God allowed the destruction of the Byzantium Empire but also allowed the Spanish to reconquer their land and settle south America. God allowed six million Jews to die alongside of six million poles, twenty six million Russians, seven million Germans and more.

The Jews shouldn't think themselves above the punishment of God and neither should we. This also extends to not only Jews but everyone. If God did punish the Jews he has not only punished them but many entities.

You jump from "God allowed" to God's "punishment." Is every evil that God allows "punishment"?

The horrors that you describe God as allowing I see as simply "examples of human nature and free will running amuck on a grand scale." I see no need to introduce any notion of punishment by God.

God "allowed" these horrors only in the same sense that He almost always allows human nature and free will to run amuck. It might be nice if He stepped in whenever the evil reaches a sufficiently grand scale, but He doesn't.

Why should we think God was punishing the Jews with the Holocaust but not, say, the residents of Hiroshima and Nagasaki or the Native Americans?
 
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Anguspure

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You might want to prepare yourself for a few extremely rude awakenings. God gives life, and He can take it in any fashion He deems fit. I would never personally make the judgment that the Holocaust was indeed "attributable to a divine curse" but, generally speaking, God is at liberty to bring divine judgment upon whomever, whenever, and wherever it seems right for Him to do so. For me to believe otherwise would seem dangerously akin to preferring sentimentalism over truth.

As humans, we tend to value temporal human life and health above all, all too often including righteousness, eternal life, and the safety, security, and harmony of God's universe. But we "wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms." We see what is recorded in pictures, moving and still, but were the curtain rolled away and we could see the supernatural, the image would be much more complicated to behold. There would appear "hills full of horses and chariots of fire all around" as they did to Elisha and the perplexed servant. God had His 7000 there the day the picture was taken.

In the end, there is no shame in ending up in a mass grave ditch. Only in being barred from ever rising up from it. Or in ordering its digging.
The God of Love did not commit these atrocities.
 
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D.A. Wright

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The God of Love did not commit these atrocities.
He is not merely the God of Love--He is the God Who IS Love and in quoting me and replying as you did, you are preaching to the choir.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Right, and he speaks through every crackpot on the loose today. People who hear voices and think it is God are craZY.

Dave instead of engaging in the matter soberly, you introduce ridicule through the folly of extremism which everyone agrees with anyway. In so doing you throw out the baby with the bathwater and promote a bondage to scripture that God never intended, and in so doing bind up folks to legalism. As a result of this the living conversational relationship with Jesus is bought into disrepute, and believers are robbed of a vital walk with Jesus that withesses His Glory. No wonder the church is largely ineffective in demonstrating Jesus to the world when this sort of theology is being pushed.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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You jump from "God allowed" to God's "punishment." Is every evil that God allows "punishment"?

The horrors that you describe God as allowing I see as simply "examples of human nature and free will running amuck on a grand scale." I see no need to introduce any notion of punishment by God.

God "allowed" these horrors only in the same sense that He almost always allows human nature and free will to run amuck. It might be nice if He stepped in whenever the evil reaches a sufficiently grand scale, but He doesn't.

Why should we think God was punishing the Jews with the Holocaust but not, say, the residents of Hiroshima and Nagasaki or the Native Americans?

I never said we shouldn't. The Japanese rejected God and expelled all missionaries, isolating themselves from the world and embracing Shinto and strict martial ethos. They then proceeded to establish an empire through the conquest of China and Asia. The Native Americans were guilty of human sacrifice and many sins as well and were by no means innocent.

It seems a possibility that they were punished by God though I am hesitant to outright say it. God doesn't always use direct means when it comes to establishing or disestablishing something. Didn't God use the Babylonians to punish Israel in the Old Testament but then also proceeded to punish the Babylonians?

I think much of what you say about human evil is correct. We freely walk into these circumstances and expect to escape the consequences of our actions. Maybe we do in one generation but then it's the next generation that suffers. God I believe is there and should we believe that we are the only ones to escape his wrath and preserve our way of life unlike everyone before us?
 
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Carl Emerson

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The Japanese rejected God and expelled all missionaries, isolating themselves from the world and embracing Shinto and strict martial ethos. They then proceeded to establish an empire through the conquest of China and Asia.

Further to this the nation was gripped with Emperor Worship which they were required by the US to renounce after the bombings. The Emperor was required to publicly declare that He was not God. As a result of this thousands of Japanese committed suicide. The country had been gripped by Satanic deception and was a tool in his hands.
 
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timothyu

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The country had been gripped by Satanic deception and was a tool in his hands.
Yes but look at all the institutions in the world that accepted the Tempters offer that Jesus rejected, that all this could be yours. It ranges from financial institutions right down to Christian ones.
 
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usexpat97

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Why should we think God was punishing the Jews with the Holocaust but not, say, the residents of Hiroshima and Nagasaki or the Native Americans?

I didn't see anyone say we shouldn't. In fact, the idea that God was punishing anybody was never in the original question: the question was whether the holocaust was due in part to their rejection of Jesus. Hiroshima happened because of Pearl Harbor. At least by mainstream accounts, Pearl Harbor was a completely unprovoked act of murder. Is that not a concrete act of a rejection of Jesus? They rejected Jesus, a few events in between, and a direct consequence is Hiroshima. God did not have to "punish" anybody.

Likewise for the holocaust. Concrete acts of rejection, and the holocaust was simply a consequence that followed. However, the sticky point is in this "mainstream" thing which the obviously pro-US-biased media advances ("patriotism", you know...): that Jews all good, Germans bad, Hitler purely the embodiment of evil, the Jews did nothing wrong, all that. Sorry, the real world is not that simple.
 
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timothyu

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Yes that is correct, but a whole Nation in Satan's grip like Japan and Germany is greater Global threat in my opinion.
True but it was the people, not the leaders, that allowed it. Self interest on their part gives power to those they see as protectors. The same situation can apply anywhere. We see it in the US today as fear gives way to people gladly giving up rights en masse and putting trust in the military-industrial complex.
 
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timothyu

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Why should we think God was punishing the Jews with the Holocaust but not, say, the residents of Hiroshima and Nagasaki or the Native Americans?
God does not punish. He merely steps aside when man refuses to do His will. The result is man expanding on their own will which always leads to these atrocities.
 
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