How prevalent is father-raping?

dqhall · Oct 20, 2019

Emmylouwho said:
Another poster brought up a good point. Lot was apparently raped by two of his daughters. How often does this happen outside of the Bible? I honestly have never heard of such a case. Does anyone know of an instance where a woman raped her father?

Lewd and lascivious.

AlexDTX · Oct 20, 2019

Emmylouwho said:
Another poster brought up a good point. Lot was apparently raped by two of his daughters. How often does this happen outside of the Bible? I honestly have never heard of such a case. Does anyone know of an instance where a woman raped her father?

It is a sad commentary on male sexuality that in a drunken stupor Lot was still able to be aroused enough for penetration to occur.

Paidiske · Oct 20, 2019

Sabertooth said:
I'm not sure what you are alluding to.

Pathology is determined by the medical field and is consistent with historical Biblical practices (when married). Attraction to a 15yo is not considered pathological.

Legality is determined by local laws. Sex with a 15yo is considered illegal.

Biblically speaking, if said laws did not prohibit consent at 15, our only concern would be whether the (unrelated) couple was married or not. Sex, even with consent, is considered unethical outside of marriage.

Sabertooth said:
Define "rape."

Define "minor."

You totally mistook my stated position, and you seemed to have disregarded my follow-up attempt at clarification.

Concerning attraction to 15-19yo (ephebophilia), if marriage to such is acceptable, when laws allow, attraction to them is acceptable when laws don't allow for marriage.

I think the point might be that even if the law did allow such marriage, the law might be inappropriate in that regard. The question is whether a person so young can truly give meaningful consent, and even if the law allows us to assume that they can, it might not be ethical to act on that.

So the issue is not just whether it is legal, but whether the law marks an appropriate ethical boundary which should be observed whether the law is in place or not.

Redwingfan9 · Oct 20, 2019

Emmylouwho said:
Another poster brought up a good point. Lot was apparently raped by two of his daughters. How often does this happen outside of the Bible? I honestly have never heard of such a case. Does anyone know of an instance where a woman raped her father?

It happens in soap operas from time to time. On Days of Our Lives Kristen Dimera raped Father Eric by drugging him. In real life, there are plenty of statutory rape cases involving female teachers having sex with their male students. There are cases out there involving women who drug or ply men with alchohol and then have sexual relations with them. It's not terribly common but it happens.

Emmylouwho · Oct 20, 2019

Redwingfan9 said:
It happens in soap operas from time to time. On Days of Our Lives Kristen Dimera raped Father Eric by drugging him. In real life, there are plenty of statutory rape cases involving female teachers having sex with their male students. There are cases out there involving women who drug or ply men with alchohol and then have sexual relations with them. It's not terribly common but it happens.

I was asking about daughters raping fathers specifically.

DamianWarS · Oct 20, 2019

HardHead said:
My reflex is that if he was drunk, he did not consent so this is rape.

However, I'm not sure this makes complete sense due to the physical effect of alcohol. By this I mean that he may not have been drunk enough to not be able to give consent AND at the same time to be able to perform sexual acts.

Aside from that speculation, did he know the women were his daughters relative to Genesis 19:33 and Genesis 19:35? It seems strange that he would not know other than if their identity was somehow concealed.

we live in a sexualized culture and our appetite for sex perhaps is different than these Genesis accounts. Remember Jacob married and consummated the marriage without knowing he had the wrong woman, and Judah had slept with his daughter-in-law thinking she was a prostitute. These intensely intimate face to face and everything exposed encounters that we crave perhaps wasn't their thing and it seems one could disguise themselves easily enough to trick even the sober so I'm sure Lot's daughters knew how to ensnare their father creatively enough without him knowing the difference.

Mountainmanbob · Oct 20, 2019

Silverback said:
people participate in every other form of vile sexual behavior, so I'm pretty sure it happens.

Probably happens plenty.
As the Bible states
Nothing New Under The Sun.
M-Bob

joshua 1 9 · Oct 20, 2019

Anguspure said:
Camels

The Camel is symbol of international trade in the Bible. The silk road is 7,000 miles long today.

Sabertooth · Oct 20, 2019

Paidiske said:
So the issue is not just whether it is legal, but whether the law marks an appropriate ethical boundary which should be observed whether the law is in place or not.

If Mary was typical for her time, was God in the wrong for impregnating her so young?

Phil W · Oct 20, 2019

joshua 1 9 said:
Some apocryphal accounts state that at the time of her betrothal to Joseph, Mary was 12–14 years old, and he was ninety years old. The Catholic church has beliefs about Mary that are different from the Protestant church.

Dumping too much, any, unsubstantiated info on the bible just leads to confusion.

joshua 1 9 · Oct 20, 2019

Phil W said:
Dumping too much, any, unsubstantiated info on the bible just leads to confusion.

I give some consideration to what the Catholic Church endorses. The people that decide that sort of thing have a PhD and put a lot of study into what they are doing.

Anguspure · Oct 20, 2019

joshua 1 9 said:
The Camel is symbol of international trade in the Bible. The silk road is 7,000 miles long today.

Yes, they were ships of the desert to some.

bekkilyn · Oct 20, 2019

Are men able to perform sexually when they are so drunk they wouldn't be able to recognize who they are with? I don't have that sort of experience with alcohol, but I've wondered how Lot wouldn't be able to recognize his own daughters, but then we have the story of Jacob and Esau and how Isaac didn't even recognize his own son and was somehow fooled because of animal skins.

Sometimes I read these stories and think some of these people were just a bit on the dense side.

(But also, the stories were often intended to impart a message and not necessarily required to be realistic" in all ways.)

Nevertheless, I believe it was later clarified in the Law of Moses (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that sex with one's children is forbidden, regardless of whether or not rape was involved.

Silverback · Oct 20, 2019

bekkilyn said:
Are men able to perform sexually when they are so drunk they wouldn't be able to recognize who they are with? I don't have that sort of experience with alcohol, but I've wondered how Lot wouldn't be able to recognize his own daughters, but then we have the story of Jacob and Esau and how Isaac didn't even recognize his own son and was somehow fooled because of animal skins.

Sometimes I read these stories and think some of these people were just a bit on the dense side.

(But also, the stories were often intended to impart a message and not necessarily required to be realistic" in all ways.)

Nevertheless, I believe it was later clarified in the Law of Moses (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that sex with one's children is forbidden, regardless of whether or not rape was involved.

Having been a Sailor for 22 years, I lived the typical reprobate lifestyle associated with Naval Service. In my experience, it was more of an age issue, between 18 and 30 unless I was on the verge of alcohol poisoning I had no performance issues, and if a guy was otherwise in good health I would expect that to be pretty typical.

As far as recognizing who they were with, or remembering anything associated with the encounter, that's a bit harder to predict, but unless he blacked out, he would have some memories.

That's my testimony.

Paidiske · Oct 20, 2019

Sabertooth said:
If Mary was typical for her time, was God in the wrong for impregnating her so young?

Well, a) that didn't involve any actual sex, and b) I don't think we can take that as a sort of template for normal human marriage.

My point stands; the question is not just what the law allows but whether the law is marking an important ethical boundary which we should observe whether the law is there or not.

I would suggest that given the power imbalance between a young teen and an older adult, as well as the relative cognitive immaturity of a teen, that ethical boundary should, in fact, exist.

FreeinChrist · Oct 20, 2019

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