Goonie

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What are the odds that Parliament passes the deal on Saturday?
Evens, it will be this deal or the Letwin amendment which calls for the govt to request an extension is available so that the deal can be fully ratified. The fear from Tory anti no deal brexit supporters is that Boris will get this passed on sat ensuring he does not need to ask for an extension, then brexiters Will vote against the deal later on in parliament.
 
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Francis Drake

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This deal is just a rehash of Theresa May's deal, with the odd bit of tweaking. I hope it gets tossed out in the usual Parliamentary chaos and confusion!

I have printed off the whole 64 pages of the deal, and with respect to the Remainers on this thread, it is certainly not the Brexit that Leavers voted for.

It leaves far too much of our laws subject to EU rules and regulations, to arbitrary new laws they might think up in the next few years, and still completely subject to EU courts.

It is Brexit in name only!
 
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mindlight

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What are the odds that Parliament passes the deal on Saturday?

You can watch it live on Parliamentlive.tv - Commons

The People I have been talking to the last few days are just fed up with this whole process even some of the Remainers are hoping that this gets past so we can just get on with our lives. Others think it is a bad deal and not good for the country and they will fight to the bitter end in the hope for Revocation. Win or lose today whatever happens divides the country and therefore weakens it. How unity can be restored after all this will require a small miracle whatever the result.
 
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mindlight

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Ok so the result is that the EU deal has to be discussed piece by piece until final approval. So an extension is probably required. But Boris has said he will not ask for an extension and implies he has a legal way of defying parliaments will on this. We should know later today how that works out as he is legally obliged to send a letter , signed by him , its text defined by the Benn act by 11pm BST tonight
 
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Goonie

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Ok so the result is that the EU deal has to be discussed piece by piece until final approval. So an extension is probably required. But Boris has said he will not ask for an extension and implies he has a legal way of defying parliaments will on this. We should know later today how that works out as he is legally obliged to send a letter , signed by him , its text defined by the Benn act by 11pm BST tonight
A promise was made on his behalf in court that he would comply with the law, a law that is quite explicit and unambiguous that he must request personally an extension by 11pm tonight.

I suspect he will get a subordinate to make the request, which will be enough to satisfy the courts I suspect.
 
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Goonie

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Ok so the result is that the EU deal has to be discussed piece by piece until final approval. So an extension is probably required. But Boris has said he will not ask for an extension and implies he has a legal way of defying parliaments will on this. We should know later today how that works out as he is legally obliged to send a letter , signed by him , its text defined by the Benn act by 11pm BST tonight
Well I was wrong. He sent 2 letters but the request was unsigned, the signed letter telling the EU to reject the request.

he is blatantly breaking the law.
 
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Nithavela

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He sent an unsigned letter requesting an extension and a signed letter telling them to reject. A blatant criminal act.
The EU will still extend. They know that they are really talking with parliament and Johnson is only the prime minister. It's obvious who is currently ruling the UK, and it ain't the PM and his cabinet.
 
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mindlight

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He sent an unsigned letter requesting an extension and a signed letter telling them to reject. A blatant criminal act.

He complied with the letter of the law rather than the spirit of it. But short of calling an election what is parliament going to do about that.
 
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He complied with the letter of the law rather than the spirit of it. But short of calling an election what is parliament going to do about that.
We'll he should be arrested for contempt of court and parliament. Monday's Monda hearing will be interesting.

He is clearly in contempt, since his lawyers on his behalf stated they would abide by the Benn act, they lied.

As an example if a court orders someone to send an apology letter to someone giving a form letter, and they instead send a copy of the letter unsigned along side a signed letter insulting them and withdrawing the apology how do you think a court will rule?
 
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Nithavela

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The news in Germany this morning was stressing the request for an extension rather than Boris's games. But all members need to approve an extension. Who will they go with Primeminster or Parliament?
To us germans it looks like the PM is just the current chief talking head.
 
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Francis Drake

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He sent an unsigned letter requesting an extension and a signed letter telling them to reject. A blatant criminal act.
No its not a criminal act.
He obeyed the letter of the law, but made it plain that he objected to it.
No law can bind a person's conscience, although Fascists/Socialists are renowned for trying.
 
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Goonie

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No its not a criminal act.
He obeyed the letter of the law, but made it plain that he objected to it.
No law can bind a person's conscience, although Fascists/Socialists are renowned for trying.
He is likely guilty of contempt of court/parliament. In sending a signed rejection of an extension with an unsigned request for an extension he blatantly did not abide by the law.

This is not about binding his conscience, it is about the Rule if Law something Conservatives are supposed to support.
 
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Nithavela

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upload_2019-10-20_17-3-16.png
 
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Francis Drake

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He is likely guilty of contempt of court/parliament. In sending a signed rejection of an extension with an unsigned request for an extension he blatantly did not abide by the law.

This is not about binding his conscience, it is about the Rule if Law something Conservatives are supposed to support.
You missed my point.
Sending the letter, signed or not, was compliance of the Law.
Sending his personal letter was not breaking any law.
 
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Goonie

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You missed my point.
Sending the letter, signed or not, was compliance of the Law.
Sending his personal letter was not breaking any law.
Yes it was.

He sent one letter unsigned asking for an extension, and sent a signed letter rejecting an extension. A clear flouting of the law.

His lawyers on his behalf before judges stated the case law
“that he is subject to the public law principle that he cannot frustrate its purpose or the purpose of its provisions”

Cannot frustrate its purpose. In sending a signed rejection of an extension he explicitly and irrifutably attempted to do just that.
 
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