Reasons why the average church congregation is only 89

the church is not church anymore, that's why. hasn't been for decades.

miggles said:

the church is not church anymore, that's why. hasn't been for decades.

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Hello, how should a church be? Why are churches not like they used to be?

A single congregation shouldn't be too big.

Have you ever heard of Dunbar numbers? People only remember a certain amount of people, or can only keep a certain amount in their confidence. Generally you can have stable relationships with only about 150 people. Around about that level primitive tribes start fracturing, villages split historically, or factories become less efficient.

It isn't perfect, and there is debate about the validity - if you adopt different strategies if you can't work around it - but the premise seems sound. There is a point at which a group becomes too big to be effective, and the idea of it being in the 100-150 range seems plausible to me. After all, a Pastor is supposed to 'shepherd' his congregation, and there are only so many people a pastor could support in the faith. I don't know if you add more pastors if you don't dissipate them over more parishioners, and thus lessen their relation with each; or if they have specific spheres within the congregation, then in effect they are separate but aligned congregations instead of one.

Small organic congregations in intimate relation to their pastors seem better to me than a Mega-Church. Supra-congregational organisation like dioceses or synods are there for a reason; the congregation should be a basic division, not a major one.

rockytopva said:

Politics... I believe this is the reason most churches average 89.

8 Reasons Most Churches Never Break the 200 Attendance Mark - CareyNieuwhof.com

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I attended a church focused on growth. They explained that research on growing churches indicated that churches would grow if they hired a full time volunteer coordinator, full time janitorial staff, and more kitchen staff. They did this and grew by having more activities, in a cleaner environment, with food served over dinner hours during the week.

Rockytopva,
You wrote, "..because of political games.."
----
During my spiritual journey..45+years,
I was involved in several churches.
- House church, Mega church..etc.
The most 'sophisticated ( often, harsh/cruel ) political games' are played in Mega church.

I was involved in the training of African Missionaries going to where the church did not exist to convert to the point of having a self-sufficient church, but that was their only goal and would stop when that goal was reached.

Preachers leave seminary wanting to support a family by preaching. A congregation of 100 allows the preacher to have support, so he can go into a maintenance mood just keep the rate of growth at the rate people leave.

Preachers can be very protective of their supporting base. They do not want to train people to be self- reliant (really God reliant) who will go out teaching others and maybe forming a new congregation, but the preacher want everyone reliant on him (protect his position).

A preacher/evangelist need to be constantly trying to work himself out of a job, train people to do what he is doing which is what Christ is doing through him.

Mainly, we live in a time in which getting one's own values together is a big theme. What is your personal set of beliefs?

This--in conjunction with the ability to be in touch with anyone in the world through the internet and personal devices--works against the corporate ideal of coming together for a face-to-face, institutional, meeting, not to mention formal memberships!

That's true whether we are talking about churches or country clubs or political committees or the Boy Scouts. They all are bemoaning the fact that they are seeing declining memberships and attendance figures.

rockytopva said:

Politics... I believe this is the reason most churches average 89.
...

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I believe the greatest reason is that they are not loyal to God, they love more their own doctrines than what Jesus said.

rockytopva said:

Politics... I believe this is the reason most churches average 89.

8 Reasons Most Churches Never Break the 200 Attendance Mark - CareyNieuwhof.com

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The early. Church met In homes for their gatherings and supper, ministry and edifying one another. The average well to do home may have for 40 to 50 people or less. The function of the church in edifying one another and having a meal together works best as God designed it like a family facing one another as they gather in a home and are all free to minister as they are led.
The large man made edifices that developed way back hindered the function of the church (the body of Christ) and set up one man exalted over all and quenched the spirit in the body and mutual edification.

there should be more home meetings all over preferably a church in a home on every street

so the church should be gathered in a smaller more intimate setting where they can obey the commands for mutual ministry to one another.
If you want so scriptures for this consider theses.

God bless

1 Cor 15:26-38, 1 Peter 4:10,11, Ephesians 4:10-16, Colossians 3:14,16, 1 Thess 5:11, Romans 12:1-8, etc

I believe I have heard these type of churches called "family chapel churches" because only a few people really run things. Everything has to go through them at some point. The article you referred to mentioned how this is not helpful to growth. When new people arrive, they also need to use their spiritual gifts and sometimes are not given the opportunity to do so. I found that when I have visited smaller churches people look at me like I have three heads because they aren't sure how or why I showed up if I didn't get invited by someone already there.

rockytopva said:

Politics... I believe this is the reason most churches average 89.

8 Reasons Most Churches Never Break the 200 Attendance Mark - CareyNieuwhof.com

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The church I attended last Sunday has 987 average Sunday attendance.

GingerBeer said:

The church I attended last Sunday has 987 average Sunday attendance.

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Mine had three, we are a home church.
So long as God and His Bible are followed and are the final authority, size doesn't matter one iota.

rockytopva said:

Politics... I believe this is the reason most churches average 89.

8 Reasons Most Churches Never Break the 200 Attendance Mark - CareyNieuwhof.com

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89 seems like a fairly solid number. What's the problem? 200 is already probably starting to be on the verge of too big.

Dunbar's number is a term which refers to the relative number of social contacts an individual can maintain with any kind of meaningfulness. Given our own cognitive limits, it is difficult to maintain a meaningful relationship with people beyond around 250. The number is usually placed somewhere between 100 and 250, so 250 is the upper limit.

It's why smaller villages tend to be more cohesive than, say, a metropolitan city. It's why in larger groupings--such as a large city--we have tended to find cohesion by being part of our local neighborhood. It's probably also why most people aren't going to have meaningful engagement with people on social media beyond one or two hundred.

And it's also why church size has tended toward that size as well.

Human beings tend to naturally organize and act more cohesively, and share as part of a community within Dunbar's number.

So a congregation of between 200 and 250 is really about the upper limit of what a church can be and maintain a meaningful sense of community. It's why megachurches simply can't provide meaningful community, and so inevitably work arounds such as "small groups" are introduced. But such a large congregation is never going to be a cohesive community--there's simply too many people, too many individuals and nobody is able to have that many meaningful relationships at a purely cognitive level. Not to mention the difficulty of pastoring such a large congregation. Which I suspect is why megachurches tend toward treating their pastors as leaders and celebrities, and not like pastors.

Note that my intent isn't to attack large congregations. Only to highlight some social factors, as well as offer some opinion.

-CryptoLutheran

GingerBeer said:

The church I attended last Sunday has 987 average Sunday attendance.

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That’s too big to be a functioning church where all can edify one another as they are led and where they can all have a meal

Heavenhome said:

Mine had three, we are a home church.
So long as God and His Bible are followed and are the final authority, size doesn't matter one iota.

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Where “two or more are gathered in my name”

LoveofTruth said:

That’s too big to be a functioning church where all can edify one another as they are led and where they can all have a meal

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Doesn't seem so from what I've seen.

GingerBeer said:

Doesn't seem so from what I've seen.

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GingerBeer said:

Doesn't seem so from what I've seen.

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Is the entire body free to minister in the Spirit as God leads, are there plurality of male elders who feed often and not just a one man pastor ministry? can all follow the command in 1 Cor 14:26-38? and 1 Peter 4:10,11, Colossians 3:15,16, Romans 12:1-8, Ephesians 4:10-16?