Have You Ever Asked For Healing and Got It Immediately?

K2K · Oct 15, 2019

I'm amazed that we don't see it more. Our Lord is God, so it seems we should see it a lot more! Of course He is God and not us, so in some respects it is up to Him. Yet to me, the most amazing thing recorded in the Bible is that Jesus said He could not do great miracles in Nazareth because of their lack of faith!

Since all things were created through Him, why couldn't He just create or fix whatever He wanted to? Somehow, because of the lack of faith in the city where He grew up in the flesh even He (God the Son) couldn't. Could it be that even though spiritually speaking He grows up in us at our churches, that our lack of faith has actually prevented Him from doing great miracles in our churches?

If have seen immediate healing lots of times! Though I am not always sure, because often I just have the testimony of others, I can be sure for some because I have that testimony in me. I had a bad knee I hurt surfing. He had me go to a Christian healing ministry my church ran. They prayed over it, it got hot, and it was healed. Once I had a growth behind my ear about the size of a small marble which was getting bigger and bigger. I got upset with it, put my hand on it and started telling it to go in the name and power of Jesus Christ and it went down and disappeared under my finger. It took maybe 10 to 20 seconds. And later the Lord asked me to go work in the same healing ministry where my knee got healed and the number of incredible things I saw there was incredible.

At this point I have seen hundreds of immediate healings, from legs growing out, wheel chairs and walkers being left behind, and so much more. I like the time a lady came in for prayer because she was having heart surgery the next day. The next day they sent her home when she went in for surgery because her problem had disappeared. Then there were the times we prayed but didn't see the miracles. I can't forget the time when a lady came in with little time to live because of a huge cancerous growth on the right side of her head by her jaw. I prayed and prayed and wanted so badly for God to do a miracle then. I had seen my growth disappear. I had seen many miracles. But I didn't see one that time.

I worked that ministry for about five years because He had asked me to. He said I could keep helping Him there, and with all the incredible things I saw I would have though I would have, but the disappointments can be massive. Oh, He still gets me to pray for others at times. I have seen a number of incredible things since then, but not the one a night type of thing I saw when working in that healing ministry. It's now more like one every six months. This year? - A back got healed at church, where a number of us were praying - I think it was a stomach problem about the middle of the year? I sometimes kind of forget. I had prayed for a number of things for that person in the past; her back, her knee... she really needs to get her weight under control. And there was a small pain, in the shoulder or was it the back, that myself and another person prayed for and were told that pain had gone away. I supposed you can never be sure about those. Does it just go away in the presence of the Lord? Does the person just say it went away. Those little things come up. I remember having a head ache one day and asking a buddy of mine to pray for it and instantly it went away and didn't return. So they certainly can be instantly healed.

aiki · Oct 15, 2019

gradyll said:
sorry you are correct namely in this, "we can agree to disagree." There is no physical way for a new finger and finger nail to grow back by itself.

A boy in my church recently had the top inch of his index finger chopped off in a car door. It has healed nearly completely, the nail and the tissue grown back so that it is difficult to tell there had ever been an injury to his finger. So, yes, there is a means of healing the body has that is quite impressive.

gradyll said:
The take on sin is that sin produces death, plain and simple. It's not about sparks or fires. Sin = death.

I never said sin was "about sparks and fire." I used sparks and fire as a metaphor for sin and Self.

Sin produces death but it is not equal to death. One can sin a great deal and not die. And if sin and death were directly equivalent as you say, no one would sin; for they would know that to do so would result in their immediate decease.

gradyll said:
Salvation is not to sit on a cloud playing a harp all day, salvation is from sin.

I don't recall writing that salvation was sitting on a cloud playing a harp...

Salvation is from the power of sin, yes, but more importantly salvation is from the wrath and punishment of God rendered upon the unrepentant wicked by eternal separation from Him in hell.

gradyll said:
There is no reason for salvation other than salvation from sin. That is it's only purpose.

Scripture describes a number of things from which we are saved and many things unto which we are saved. Salvation from sin is merely one of these things accomplished for us through Christ's sacrifice at Calvary.

From what is one saved?

Romans 6:22-23 (NKJV)
22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 5:8-9 (NKJV)
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

Colossians 1:13-14 (NKJV)
13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love,
14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

Galatians 1:3-5 (NKJV)
3 Grace to you and peace from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ,
4 who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father,
5 to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.

Romans 8:2-4 (NKJV)
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,
4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Romans 6:6-11 (NKJV)
6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.
7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.
8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.
10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Galatians 3:13-14 (NKJV)
13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree"),
14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Unto what is one saved?

John 4:13-14 (NKJV)
13 Jesus answered and said to her, "Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again,
14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life."

John 5:24 (NKJV)
24 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

Galatians 5:13 (NKJV)
13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.

Romans 5:1-2 (NKJV)
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Colossians 1:21-22 (NKJV)
21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled
22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight--

And so on.

gradyll said:
But to be honest, I don't think that debates among christians are helpful or even necessary,

Well, again, I disagree. Without debate, the truth becomes highly subjective and warped.

gradyll said:
The spirit here is fighty, if we see someone with different views other than ourselves, the tendency instead of having grace and unity, is to make everyone like ourselves.

I don't have any interest at all in making you like me. But I do have a concern that God's truth is properly represented. Your statements about God's truth have been both incomplete and outright false (see above). And so I've made comment.

gradyll said:
There is no wonder thy athiests flock to this site, because we don't unify, or love one another.

Actually, they don't "flock to this site." I've been on other Christian sites where atheists have quite literally overtaken the site, shutting down all conversation with the worst sort of verbal vitriol. CF is far from such a state.

gradyll said:
It's not all our fault because the way christian forums are made are to encourage dialogue in various forms, and the first thing people want is to talk controversy. What bible is best, are gifts for today, is the rapture soon or after tribulation, is jesus a republican or democrat. It's silly.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion. We've all got them.

gradyll said:
Anyway, by all means continue to fight with strangers, I hope you are fulfilled in the end.

??? Whose fighting? I'm not. If I were fighting, my words and approach to you would be very different.

gradyll said:
Or you can like me and others let go of the fighting and bickering and just unite in Christ.

Seriously? You don't have any idea about me and the tenor of my life.

I cannot be in union with those whose understanding of the faith is warped and confused. It takes discussion and debate - "fighting and bickering" you call it - to come to true unity in the truth of God. Blind unity, unity careless of truth, is folly of the worst sort.

K2K · Oct 15, 2019

Since this is in "Deeper Fellowship", there should be some connection made between healing and deeper fellowship, and there is a connection!

Ex 15:26 And He said, "If you will give earnest heed to the voice of the Lord your God, and do what is right in His sight, and give ear to His commandments, and keep all His commandments, I will put none of the diseases on you which I have put on the Egyptians: for I, the Lord, am your healer."

A close look at the above verse and we see that we need to heed His voice, and give ear to His commandment, along with doing what is right, keeping all His commandments. These are different things. It is not just a case of trying to do what is right, though that is one of the things. You can do that without actually knowing Him. And it is not just keeping those Ten Commandments or all the Law. He starts with saying we need to heed His voice, and also give ear to His commandments. That means we must be listening with our spiritual ears to what He wants to say to us, and doing that means a closer and deeper relationship with Him.

Also, if and since we and Him in the above verse are talking about Him healing us and thus being our healer - do we look to Him first for healing??? Do we do that we expectation and open ear, listening for what He has to say for us personally?

During my roughly five years working in a Christian healing ministry like He asked me, I learned a lot. I probably learned more and got closer to the Lord in those five years the any other five years during my time with the Lord. One of the reasons for that was that when working in that ministry I felt I absolutely had to listen for the specific things He wanted done, when people came in for prayer. I certainly did not feel they were going to see miracles by my great wisdom and power. So when they came in hoping and expecting miracles, and that is what they did, I had be listening to Him. Fortunately, listening to Him and following His instructions was what seemed to work best.

And then the more I had to and did listen to Him, the more healings I would see. One of the reason was that He would start telling me things the people need healing for, even though they hadn't. Amazingly, I was finding more healing that need pray from the Lord than from the people who were coming into the healing ministry. Sooo often a person would come in and say they wanted prayer for a friend or something like that, but then the Lord would tell me they had a bad stomach, neck, back, knee, or something like that.

If someone had a problem we would ask them if they had pain and on a scale of one to ten how bad was the pain. I was often amazed that when the Lord told me about a problem and I asked them about if they had pain and if so how bad it was, they told me they did and it was severe, like a 9 or a 10. I would leave wondering how Christians could come into a Christian healing ministry is so much pain and not tells us they needed prayer for that problem? Yet it happened often, and the nice part was that virtually every time I got a word from Him we saw awesome things happen. Sometimes it didn't completely away but almost without exception they left with no more than a 1 or 2 level of pain.

That brings me up to something else. Even Jesus didn't always get complete healing the first time He prayed for something, and He is God. I have seen Christians who depend on their understanding of the bible more than their relationship with Him get this wrong. Check out all the Scriptures and you will find out that times like when He prayed for a persons eyes and while better the people still looked like trees. He had more to do. And that was Him.

We often saw people get complete healing after they had come back a couple of times. It usually didn't take too long, but since we kept records we would often see incredible things by looking at the records. Maybe it was immediate, at least to the full extinct, but some was immediate and it wasn't long. We'd see people come in for serve physical problems. Then come back because a little problem persisted. Then come back because they wanted to hear from the Lord better. Then come back because they wanted some spiritual gifts for the ministry He was calling them to... and all that happened in a month or two.

He said if His people "give earnest heed" to His voice, and it might take a little time just to make sure they were. He is not slow to do things like we tend to think, but it becomes apparent that He is smarter than us.

fwGod · Oct 15, 2019

OP said:
Have You Ever Asked For Healing and Got It Immediately?

As a believer, I'd have to say "Yes". Because God says "I am the One that healeth thee." And Peter says "By the stripes of Jesus ye were healed."

It's to my advantage if I agree with God's word.

If someone were to ask me how I feel? I'd have to say "right now? sore and achy."

My physical situation is temporary. But the word of God is eternal.

I am using my faith to look at what's eternal and speak what is eternal more than I look at or say what is temporary.

aiki · Oct 17, 2019

The problem with asking others if God heals is that you have to take their word for it that He did. The mind is a powerful thing, having tremendous influence over one's physical condition. Have you heard of the Placebo Effect? It demonstrates just how potent an effect the mind can have upon the physical state of the body. How does one distinguish between the Placebo Effect and genuine supernatural healing? And, if supernatural healing has occurred, how is it determined not to be a demonic counterfeit intended by Satan to deceive, to foster mistaken ideas about God and His purposes for healing? There is supernatural demonic healing that happens and so it is very important to be able to distinguish this sort of healing from the healing God does. It seems to me, though, that all that is required for some Christians to accept that God has healed is another believer's say-so. These credulous Christians are very susceptible to false teachers, charlatans, who would make merchandise (and fools) of them. Todd White is a good example. His leg lengthening trick - and it is most definitely a trick - has been exposed by professional street magicians who understand the deception Todd works to perform his "miraculous healing." But many Christians eat up Todd's stuff. They are not the least bit skeptical when he does the exact same healing over and over again. They so badly want to see God do something miraculous, they are so hungry for a supernatural sign, that they will gobble up whatever they can find, however bogus it may be.

Do we see people outside of the Gospels being healed at every turn by Christians? No, we don't. As I've pointed out now a couple of times in this thread, Epaphroditus, Trophimus, Dorcas, Timothy and Paul were not miraculously healed of their physical complaints. Do we see teaching in Scripture that indicates that we ought to be healed of any physical issue we have and ought to be healing others as a matter of course? No, we don't. So, why this near-obsession some have with healing? God may heal, yes. But I see no good reason to think He's going to do so on a regular basis. He's not a trick pony, jumping through hoops so we will clap our hands and cheer.

K2K · Oct 17, 2019

Concerning God healing and a deeper relationship: I WOULD NOT TAKE ANOTHER PERSON'S WORD FOR IT!!!"

If God is not there, He is not there!!! If He is there and if He can heal me, then I would be extremely foolish to not at least earnestly seek Him to find out if He might be willing to heal me, and even give me some good advice!!

In general - WE ARE FOOLS!!

In 1999 some weird things were happening in my life. I suddenly had both my cars break down at the exact same time when I was about to take an important trip. Also, I had this strange feeling go through me, which was had to explain, but I suddenly got goose bumps while thinking about what was happening. That got me thinking about God, which I never did. I didn't go to church, I didn't concern myself with any religion. I was much more an atheist than those proclaimed atheist who get mad at people because they claim to believe in God or religion. What did I care if they believed or didn't believe in God or religion? If He wasn't around doing things, and I hadn't seem Him do anything, then what did it matter. But then again, if by some chance He caused both of my cars to break down at that important time and if He was the One that gave me that weird feeling with goose bumps, then I needed to check into that. I was a fool, but I could at least use that much logic!

I stood in front of my house loudly asking God if He had anything to do with the cars breaking down and if He wanted to tell me something. I told Him flat out that I was listening, and if He was indeed God He should be able to talk to me. I listened, and got nothing. I didn't know it at the time, but there were a few things I needed to know about hearing from God. Mainly, God is spirit.

Never-the- less the cars both started working and I don't know why. I took that trip, but it worked out all wrong. I never should have taken that trip! Then a couple of months later I woke up one morning and a voice suddenly told me, "READ YOUR BIBLE". I did, because now I believed in God. I then started to get to know Him. I now know God is spirit and so I hear His voice in my spirit not through my physical ears!

Now, about twenty years after starting that personal relationship with Him, I have more testimonies about Him, His wisdom, His knowledge, His incredible healing power than I can possibly remember. I literally have hundreds, maybe a thousand or more, testimonies of God healing power. I have seen legs grow out. I have seen growths instantly go down under my very own fingers while praying for them. I could go on and on.

Now I read on a Christian forum about whether God can and does healing today. Does anyone have a testimony? HA HA HA - I laugh inside. How can you really know Him and not have those testimonies!! - I think inside me. Of course, it would not really be that polite to put it to someone that way, but honestly, from my perspective, as someone who didn't believe in God but then found God and got to know Him, and which as a result I saw hundreds of incredible things as a Christian, how can I not be amazed at the responses of disbelief I read on this Christian forum?

Ok, perhaps I was not as polite as I should have been, but my friends - God healing people is not just a theological point made in the Scriptures. It is not just something that happened in the past!!! I put is to you, that if you indeed seek Him and get to know Him you are going to see Him heal people!!!

He doesn't do it all the time, and you won't always know why He does sometimes and not others, but He is God and you are not. You can of course ask Him about it. His disciples did then. They asked if a person had the problem because of his sin or his parents sin, only to be told 'neither' it was because God want to glorify the Son. Wasn't that how it went? Still, if you ask Him who talks to you, you might find a time it was because of sin, or not forgiving, or any number of other reasons. You find that if He is using you, you need to be talking to Him and getting your instructions from Him!! Jesus Christ is the Lord, meaning you get your instructions from Him, via the Holy Spirit who does not speak on His own initiative but He talks the words of God which belong to the Son and like a living telephone hooks you up with Jesus Christ, your Lord, if you are indeed getting instructions from Him.

Any if you indeed do know Him and can hear from Him, how is it that at some point He will not tell you something like, "Karl, if you pray for that person I will heal them." Ok, your name is probably not 'Karl, but I have heard Him tell me those words a number of times. He had me working in a healing Christian healing ministry, where I put out the signs, and I can't tell you how many times I heard Him tell me, "Karl, I want them healed" referring to those people coming in for prayer. We prayed for them. Not all got healed, but many did. Almost everyone got something from the Lord at those times, and I'd say about a third got all the healing they asked for right then, before they left!

Yet again last night, like so many other times, I was talking to someone very much actively involved at that church, who knew fully well about the healing ministry at the church, who obviously needed healing and was seeing a doctor but who had not taken the time to go to the healing ministry.

So let me just ask - Are we Christians seeking first the kingdom of God, which includes a King that said He heals us and His army of Holy angels according to our stated belief, or are we going to the local doctor then going back to him and back o him again and never really seeking what the Lord set up in His body, the Church?

From what I see, I would say the problem is not the Lord. The problem is that we are not really seeking that "Deeper Relationship"!!!!

Look - He might tell you to go to the doctor. He does have this wonderful habit of using people, still it look obvious to me that we are not getting that deeper relationship which causes us to look to Him first!

aiki · Oct 17, 2019

K2K said:
Concerning God healing and a deeper relationship: I WOULD NOT TAKE ANOTHER PERSON'S WORD FOR IT!!!"

Well, then, why share stories about healing? We can only take your word for it that the things you claim happened actually did happen.

K2K said:
If God is not there, He is not there!!! If He is there and if He can heal me, then I would be extremely foolish to not at least earnestly seek Him to find out if He might be willing to heal me, and even give me some good advice!!

I quite agree.

K2K said:
In 1999 some weird things were happening in my life. I suddenly had both my cars break down at the exact same time when I was about to take an important trip. Also, I had this strange feeling go through me, which was had to explain, but I suddenly got goose bumps while thinking about what was happening.

You know, I'm always stunned by how superstitious people become when talking about what they think is God "getting their attention" or communicating with them. I see no where in Scripture the vague, mysterious, and superstitious style of interaction with God modern believers claim to have. In Scripture, when God wanted someone's attention, He got it; when He wanted to communicate something to someone, He never failed to do so. Moses got the burning bush; Gideon got a visit from an angel; so did Abraham; King Belshazzar got a hand writing on a wall; the prophet Balaam got a talking donkey; Paul got knocked onto his keister and blinded; and so on. Why, when God acted in Scripture so overtly and directly in communicating His will to people, are modern Christians reduced to divining God's presence and will from shivers, and goosebumps, and superstitious thinking? Has God shrunk in power? Is He not capable of being clear and plain about what He wants? Of course not. The problem isn't with God but with Christians who are so keen to feel God, to see some supernatural trick, that they will manufacture such things from their own imagination and superstitious thinking in order to experience them.

K2K said:
But then again, if by some chance He caused both of my cars to break down at that important time and if He was the One that gave me that weird feeling with goose bumps, then I needed to check into that. I was a fool, but I could at least use that much logic!

But by what logic could you reasonably arrive at the conclusion that God had caused both of your cars to break down? Correlation does not prove causation. That is, two things occurring in proximity to each other in time and place don't necessarily mean they are causally related. Has the sparrow that is chirping just before the rain begins caused the rain to fall by its chirping? No. If I see two butterflies flit across my lawn just before the phone rings, am I right to assume they caused the phone to ring? No. If I get angry at my wife and then can't get my car to start, has my anger stifled the ignition of my car? Of course not. This is superstitious thinking, not biblical thinking. Weirdly, though, many Christians rely on this very sort of superstitiousness all the time in their walk with God!

But such superstitious thinking isn't necessary when one knows Scripture. God has given us truth, spiritual principles, wisdom and commands by which we know His will and how best to carry it out in our lives. (see 2 Timothy 3:16-17; Psalms 119:105; Psalms 19:7-11) We never have to wonder what God wants us to do if we know these things and apply them. And if God has something in particular to say to us, like He did with Moses, He will make it very clear - no guessing or goosebumps required.

K2K said:
I stood in front of my house loudly asking God if He had anything to do with the cars breaking down and if He wanted to tell me something. I told Him flat out that I was listening, and if He was indeed God He should be able to talk to me. I listened, and got nothing. I didn't know it at the time, but there were a few things I needed to know about hearing from God. Mainly, God is spirit.

God being a Spirit does not for a moment mean He cannot intervene in human affairs very directly and physically and use very material, concrete means to make Himself clear. As I said, consider Moses, or Gideon, or Abraham, or Jacob, or Paul. God is not in the business of speaking to us in puzzles or mysteries or in such vague and subtle ways we must know more or be more sensitive before we can pick out His voice. He didn't rely on these things in how He communicated to people in Scripture and He doesn't rely on them now.

K2K said:
Never-the- less the cars both started working and I don't know why. I took that trip, but it worked out all wrong. I never should have taken that trip!

But if God had not wanted you to go on the trip, surely He would have made it impossible for you to do so. What sort of God gives such mixed messages? Not the One I read of in Scripture.

K2K said:
I now know God is spirit and so I hear His voice in my spirit not through my physical ears!

And where is this ever taught in Scripture? Did Moses hear from God with his "spiritual ears"? No. Did Paul need such ears on the road to Damascus? No. How about Abraham? Did he need "spiritual ears" to hear from God about his descendants? No. What about the two men on the road to Emmaus? Did Jesus speak to their spirits, circumventing their physical ears entirely? No, he walked and talked with them very directly. What about those indwelt by the Holy Spirit? Does God speak to them inwardly by direct, spiritual communication with their spirit? No, He reveals His will and way to His children through His word, illuminated and impressed upon them by the Holy Spirit.

K2K said:
Now, about twenty years after starting that personal relationship with Him, I have more testimonies about Him, His wisdom, His knowledge, His incredible healing power than I can possibly remember. I literally have hundreds, maybe a thousand or more, testimonies of God healing power. I have seen legs grow out. I have seen growths instantly go down under my very own fingers while praying for them. I could go on and on.

But, as you've already agreed, we shouldn't just take your word for it that the miraculous things you say happened actually did happen, or happen for the reasons you think they did.

K2K said:
Now I read on a Christian forum about whether God can and does healing today. Does anyone have a testimony? HA HA HA - I laugh inside. How can you really know Him and not have those testimonies!! - I think inside me. Of course, it would not really be that polite to put it to someone that way, but honestly, from my perspective, as someone who didn't believe in God but then found God and got to know Him, and which as a result I saw hundreds of incredible things as a Christian, how can I not be amazed at the responses of disbelief I read on this Christian forum?

Oh, God works in wonderful, supernatural ways, to be sure. But He is, as I said, not a trick pony, performing miracles to excite people who are desperate for a sensual experience of Him. I have seen God do many amazing things, but miraculous healing in particular, real, actual, verifiable healing, is very rare. And when I look into Scripture, I see that this is what I should expect.

K2K said:
Ok, perhaps I was not as polite as I should have been, but my friends - God healing people is not just a theological point made in the Scriptures. It is not just something that happened in the past!!! I put is to you, that if you indeed seek Him and get to know Him you are going to see Him heal people!!!

My walk with God has been pretty long in duration and is growing deeper all the time. I have seen His provision many times, experienced His comfort and strengthening often, and have watched Him transform wicked people again and again. But healing - real, genuine healing - is not a regular event in the fifty-plus years I've walked with Him. Not by a long shot. Seeing God heal, then, is not integral - or necessary - to knowing and walking with God well.

K2K said:
He doesn't do it all the time, and you won't always know why He does sometimes and not others, but He is God and you are not.

Exactly.

K2K said:
Jesus Christ is the Lord, meaning you get your instructions from Him, via the Holy Spirit who does not speak on His own initiative but He talks the words of God which belong to the Son and like a living telephone hooks you up with Jesus Christ, your Lord, if you are indeed getting instructions from Him.

No, his "sheep" hear his voice in his word, the word of God, the Bible, not via some "spiritual telephone." No where in Scripture will you ever read that God speaks to His children in the way you've described here. He speaks through burning bushes, through angels, through talking donkeys, through a hand writing on a wall, through stone tablets engraved with His commandments, through His prophets, through visions and dreams but NEVER does Scripture ever teach that we should expect to hear from God via a "spiritual telephone" line to Jesus. Certainly, as recipients of the full canon of Scripture, we have all the communication from God we need to "live godly in Christ Jesus."

K2K said:
Not all got healed, but many did. Almost everyone got something from the Lord at those times, and I'd say about a third got all the healing they asked for right then, before they left!

We don't see this sort of "batting average" with Christ or the apostles. All those who approached them for physical healing were healed. What's happened between then and now? And, again, we must take your word for it that all who you say were healed actually were.

K2K said:
So let me just ask - Are we Christians seeking first the kingdom of God, which includes a King that said He heals us and His army of Holy angels according to our stated belief, or are we going to the local doctor then going back to him and back o him again and never really seeking what the Lord set up in His body, the Church?

Faith in God does not require that we seek Him for miraculous healing whenever we get ill or injured. God has given us modern medicine and the healing capacities of our own bodies, has He not? He has not provided to us only the avenue of miraculous healing by which we might be well. Don't look down on those, then, who rely on these ultimately God-given means of healing. They do no wrong in seeking help from the modern medicine God has provided, nor are they in doing so less faith-filled than you. If you aren't careful, your thinking on healing may lead you into the sin of spiritual pride, holding in disdain fellow believers who don't get in a lather about miraculous healing, which disdain I see often among those who champion such healing.

I think you ought to consider the life of Joni Eareckson-Tada who through terrible, life-long physical suffering has been powerfully used by God. Many have approached her with a "word from God" directing them to pray for her and heal her. And nothing has happened. She remains as physically damaged as ever. Very often these "emissaries of God" blame her for the failed result. Nice, eh? She just doesn't have enough faith. But Joni points out that the man let down through the ceiling by his friends to be healed by Jesus was healed as a result, not of his own faith, but of the faith of those who brought him to Christ for healing. Anyway, God works in and through our afflictions far more, I believe, than He does through our healing. Our afflictions crowd us close to our Heavenly Father, keeping us dependent upon Him, which is far more vital than having an illness and injury-free body.

FenderTL5 · Oct 17, 2019

Yes, but only when the petition was on the behalf of someone else.

K2K · Oct 18, 2019

aiki said:
Well, then, why share stories about healing? We can only take your word for it that the things you claim happened actually did happen.

Read closely what I wrote. We need to seek Him!! He has a voice! He can answer! If we are even going to write anything about "a deeper relationship with Him' it must be possible to hear from Him and the Scriptures not only explain that but also that "with their eyes they don't see and with their ears they don't hear." That is the "in general part". Any testimony I might give is to get those not seeking Him to seek Him, and not to get them to actually believe me, but rather to ask Him what He thinks.

So nobody needs to take my word that these things happened, but a person is a fool not to seek God for His word! Still - it is recorded that He said -' with their eyes they don't see and with their ears they don't hear, otherwise they would turn back to Me and I would heal them.'

I wonder if God is right about that???

Perhaps we could ask Him about it????

K2K · Oct 18, 2019

FenderTL5 said:
Yes, but only when the petition was on the behalf of someone else.

Just curious, and maybe I don't understand, but are you saying that God wouldn't heal you if you personally asked Him to heal you, as opposed to someone else?

If so, how can we explain people coming and asking Jesus to heal them, seeing how He is God the Son? Which then brings me to the question of what a deeper relationship with God looks like for you? I mean, wouldn't a deeper relationship with God mean that He might heal you if you needed it?

K2K · Oct 18, 2019

aiki said:
We don't see this sort of "batting average" with Christ or the apostles. All those who approached them for physical healing were healed. What's happened between then and now? And, again, we must take your word for it that all who you say were healed actually were.

REALLY? Were all those who approached Jesus and His disciples healed????

Have we not read where Jesus went to Nazareth and tells them that He can't do great miracles there, because of their lack of faith, but He could only heal a few by the laying on of hands?

So do we not see that by Him only healing a few it referred to those wanting to be healed by Him?

And my friends, that was Jesus, the One through whom all things were created, and that was at the place He grew up in. Isn't our church, spiritually speaking, the place where He grows up in us today? And my church was the place where we could heal a few by the laying on of hands. And I mean we could heal a few of those who came to us for prayer. About a third of them! Do we not see the connection?

And if His disciples/apostles, had such a great record of healing then how come we read that Jesus gave them a rebuke when a man brought his son to Jesus after He disciples didn't heal them!

Mat 17:16,17 &19 I brought him to Your disciples, and they could not cure him." And Jesus answered and said, "You unbelieving and perverted generation, how long shall I put up with you? Bring him here to Me.".... Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, "Why could we not drive it out?

The most important part of the above and as it concerns "a deeper relationship" is of course the disciples coming to Jesus is private and asking why they could not drive it out? That is the deeper relationship part. That is the being discipled. And that is what you experience as His disciple. He tells you to go out and heal. You do so and find it doesn't always work. So you wind up talking to Him in private, that quite time you spend with Him, and listen to what He says. It is often, like in that case, "Because of the littleness of your faith."

I'd like to see more people healed. I'd like to have great faith in Him. Still, even He couldn't always heal people. Indeed, even in the place He grows up there is likely going to be a lack of faith in Him, preventing Him from healing people. There are others reason too. You find it out by going to Him in private and having those personal conversations with Him. And that is explained in the Bible, though it still must be found out by getting into a deeper relationship with Him.

I know a lot of people who have worked in Christian healing ministries, and I don't know any of them who have actually done that who don't understand that they sometime don't see the healing they are praying for. The Christians saying that God always heals, and the God always heals 100 percent, and that it never comes back when God heals, are not the ones actually working in those ministries, from what I have seen. It is also what we read happening in the Bible.

FenderTL5 · Oct 18, 2019

K2K said:
Just curious, and maybe I don't understand, but are you saying that God wouldn't heal you if you personally asked Him to heal you, as opposed to someone else?

Wouldn't? no, I'm not saying that.
I'm saying, based on the thread title, healing for myself based on my own prayers has been over time and naturally- not immediate. However I should add, my ailments thus far have been minor.
Also, there have been a few instances where within a day of prayers, I have seen others healed miraculously, based on our collective prayers. One is an unexplained cancer remission.

It seemed to me that the OP was asking for personal anecdotes. This is my experience, and nothing further. I believe God heals. I believe there is a protocol for healing prayers (James 5).

..wouldn't a deeper relationship with God mean that He might heal you if you needed it?

Yes, it could. Or not. That is within God's plan not mine.

aiki · Oct 19, 2019

K2K said:
REALLY? Were all those who approached Jesus and His disciples healed????

Yes, in the record of Scripture, every person who approached them for healing was healed.

K2K said:
Have we not read where Jesus went to Nazareth and tells them that He can't do great miracles there, because of their lack of faith, but He could only heal a few by the laying on of hands?

You don't seem to be reading carefully what I wrote. If the people of Nazareth did not generally believe Jesus could heal them, would they be approaching him for healing? Obviously not. And this is why we do not read of Jesus not healing the people of Nazareth who approached him for healing but only of their skepticism toward him born of their familiarity with him and his family.

K2K said:
So do we not see that by Him only healing a few it referred to those wanting to be healed by Him?

Matthew 13:54-58 which relates Jesus' time in "his own country" (aka Nazareth) says nothing about anyone approaching Jesus for healing. The parallel story in Mark 6 says nothing of Jesus being approached for healing either. The recounting of this tale in Luke 4 also makes no mention of Jesus being approached by the people of Nazareth for healing but, rather, that they were so incensed by his words they tried to throw him off of a cliff!

K2K said:
And my friends, that was Jesus, the One through whom all things were created, and that was at the place He grew up in. Isn't our church, spiritually speaking, the place where He grows up in us today?

Well, inasmuch as you are quite mistaken about Nazareth being an exception to my assertion, these further comments are irrelevant. In any case, they are also nonsensical. I have no idea what you mean by the Church being the "place where Jesus "grows up in us today." Jesus is the eternal, infinite Creator, seated at the right hand of God the Father. He has no growing up to do.

K2K said:
And my church was the place where we could heal a few by the laying on of hands. And I mean we could heal a few of those who came to us for prayer. About a third of them! Do we not see the connection?

None at all. As I said, Jesus and the disciples healed every person who came to them for healing.

K2K said:
And if His disciples/apostles, had such a great record of healing then how come we read that Jesus gave them a rebuke when a man brought his son to Jesus after He disciples didn't heal them!

The boy was demon possessed, he did not require physical healing of an injury, disease or congenital deformity. And Jesus pointed out that they could have exorcised the boy but only with fasting and prayer.

K2K said:
I'd like to see more people healed. I'd like to have great faith in Him. Still, even He couldn't always heal people. Indeed, even in the place He grows up there is likely going to be a lack of faith in Him, preventing Him from healing people.

Again, you are mistaken. See above.

K2K said:
I know a lot of people who have worked in Christian healing ministries, and I don't know any of them who have actually done that who don't understand that they sometime don't see the healing they are praying for.

And in this they diverge from Jesus very widely. In the record of Scripture, he always healed any and all who came to him for healing, as did his disciples.

S.O.J.I.A. · Oct 19, 2019

never had the pleasure..

K2K · Oct 20, 2019

aiki said:
Yes, in the record of Scripture, every person who approached them for healing was healed.

You don't seem to be reading carefully what I wrote. If the people of Nazareth did not generally believe Jesus could heal them, would they be approaching him for healing? Obviously not. And this is why we do not read of Jesus not healing the people of Nazareth who approached him for healing but only of their skepticism toward him born of their familiarity with him and his family.

Matthew 13:54-58 which relates Jesus' time in "his own country" (aka Nazareth) says nothing about anyone approaching Jesus for healing. The parallel story in Mark 6 says nothing of Jesus being approached for healing either. The recounting of this tale in Luke 4 also makes no mention of Jesus being approached by the people of Nazareth for healing but, rather, that they were so incensed by his words they tried to throw him off of a cliff!

Well, inasmuch as you are quite mistaken about Nazareth being an exception to my assertion, these further comments are irrelevant. In any case, they are also nonsensical. I have no idea what you mean by the Church being the "place where Jesus "grows up in us today." Jesus is the eternal, infinite Creator, seated at the right hand of God the Father. He has no growing up to do.

None at all. As I said, Jesus and the disciples healed every person who came to them for healing.

The boy was demon possessed, he did not require physical healing of an injury, disease or congenital deformity. And Jesus pointed out that they could have exorcised the boy but only with fasting and prayer.

Again, you are mistaken. See above.

And in this they diverge from Jesus very widely. In the record of Scripture, he always healed any and all who came to him for healing, as did his disciples.

If He could only heal a few by the laying on of hands, then there were others looking for healing. The wanting to throw Him off a cliff was obviously after Jesus has already laid hands on a few, so that is irrelevant.

If the demons was throwing the kid into fire or water to kill him, and for quite some time, how do we not recognize that the kids did have some injuries from this. So the father of the kid did not only bring the kid to the disciples for the casting out but the problem in general. While people coming to Jesus showed and show a level of faith, and seeking God clearly has it's advantages, it doesn't always mean that every time someone wants Jesus to heal them they see that healing right away, or in full right away.

Note the OP had the question "Have you ever asked for healing and got it immediately?"

That question from a Christian posting on this Christian forum clearly indicates that Christian see this as a problem at least at times.

There is the person that like to interpret the Scriptures and make their own conclusions and the person that is seeking for answers and wondering why the reality doesn't seem to match with the reality they see. The Scriptures do match the reality, but people interpret the Scriptures incorrectly. That happens because we don't get and seek the closer and deeper relationship with Jesus Christ - listening to Him, working with Him, and learning from Him!

After working in a Christian healing ministry for five years, talking to the others who worked in it, dealing with the reality of praying for healing regularly, and seeing the results, reality, and thoughts, and reasoning of many others working in healing ministries today - we doing regularly see immediate healings but the reality is that we don't always see it. We often see some healing then with some more prayer we get more even to complete healing. Still, there is a reason that it is written that Jesus is faithful to complete what He started!

And there is a real problem when we jump to our conclusion and interpretation but don't learn from the Lord. We can some to a conclusion that if Jesus was really involved that person would have complete healing, when He was involved and indeed do a work in a real person, and thus that statement can seriously hurt the person that hears it!!

For example, there was a lady attending a class who had gotten some healing from cancer. The cancer had gone away after prayer, but a number of other problems that the cancer had caused still remained. The person teaching the class had boldly explained that if Jesus is doing the healing you always get complete and entire healing. The lady then gave her personal testimony and explained that while the cancer was gone she still suffered from some things. The teacher in the class then proclaim, according to his understanding, that Jesus must not have been involved. This, as you should understand, seriously upset her, caused her to doubt her faith, caused her to get upset with God and the church in general.

So did he think that Satan had instantly healed the cancer? That was gone, even though other problems were still there. He didn't work in the healing ministry, thought they were using him for teaching because he had experience teaching if not healing.

The fact is that we see healing today, and immediate healing today. We should probably be seeing it more. But it is not always easy to believe for it. That is, I might be able to believe God can heal me by using a doctor if I go to a hospital, and God might want to do that. But it is harder to believe that if I just pray for a Christian who has a broken bone that God can heal that immediately, and also hard for them to believe for it.

The fact is the more your pray for healing, the more you listen to the Lord and work with Him, the more you grow in Him and the deeper the relationship grows. That was true for His disciples and for those following Him then, just like it is true today.

So we they didn't then nor do we today always see immediate and complete healing. There are also other reason, like timing and God's plan, that come into effect. There are many other things actually, that you learn about when you work with the Lord and actually listen to Him. Anyone working in Christian healing ministries can telling you about forgiveness and the importance it often plays in healing, both emotional and physical healing.

My friends, Jesus wants people healed! He is love. So why do we have so many people, even in our church that need healing? There are reasons, and a deeper relationship with the Lord will help you understand.

As for the person saying that anyone going to Jesus and asking Him for healing always gets healed: did he ever have a cold, a sniffle, a bumped toe or whatever? Where is the testimony as a answer to the question in the OP explaining the immediate healing he got?

I gave some testimonies of it. I have more. But I also have times when I asked and didn't get immediate healing. I once bugged the Lord regularly for Him to remove a wart I picked up. I had it for a few months and regularly talked to Him about it. One day I was talking to Him and was again buggin Him about that wart, when I heard the small voice of His telling me, "Karl, isn't it gone?" Humm - it was there, but I looked down at it and now it wasn't. So immediately heal? Well, yes and no. I had asked for several months and nothing, then instantly. What was with that?

I'll tell you what it is. It is getting into a deeper relationship with Him. You learn He can do it, but you might have to wait on Him?

aiki · Oct 20, 2019

K2K said:
If He could only heal a few by the laying on of hands, then there were others looking for healing. The wanting to throw Him off a cliff was obviously after Jesus has already laid hands on a few, so that is irrelevant.

No, none of the Gospel accounts of Jesus's visit to Nazareth say that he was asked for healing by anyone. Instead, they all only mention his teaching in the synagogue and the skepticism of the people of Nazareth. There is no biblical grounds, then, whatever for saying that Jesus was asked to heal people in Nazareth but couldn't.

K2K said:
If the demons was throwing the kid into fire or water to kill him, and for quite some time, how do we not recognize that the kids did have some injuries from this.

The account of the child's exorcism says nothing about physical healing. The disciples tried to free him of demon possession and it was this possession by a particularly difficult demonic entity that caused the disciples problems. So, here, too, you have no grounds in Scripture to assert what you have about the healing of Jesus's disciples.

K2K said:
While people coming to Jesus showed and show a level of faith, and seeking God clearly has it's advantages, it doesn't always mean that every time someone wants Jesus to heal them they see that healing right away, or in full right away.

Well, again, this isn't what Scripture indicates. All who came to Jesus for healing were healed.

K2K said:
Note the OP had the question "Have you ever asked for healing and got it immediately?"

That question from a Christian posting on this Christian forum clearly indicates that Christian see this as a problem at least at times.

It's only a problem when Christians are urging other Christians to think that miraculous healing ought to occur regularly. The healing we hear of in the Gospels was integral to establishing Christ's divine authority and the authority of his disciples who would go on to establish the Early Church. Miraculous healing today, for the most part, serves neither of these purposes and so it is no surprise that true, miraculous, divine healing is a relative rarity now.

K2K said:
There is the person that like to interpret the Scriptures and make their own conclusions and the person that is seeking for answers and wondering why the reality doesn't seem to match with the reality they see. The Scriptures do match the reality, but people interpret the Scriptures incorrectly. That happens because we don't get and seek the closer and deeper relationship with Jesus Christ - listening to Him, working with Him, and learning from Him!

Or, it could be that YOU have incorrectly understood Scripture which your contention with me over the story of Jesus's visit to Nazareth illustrates rather clearly.

K2K said:
After working in a Christian healing ministry for five years, talking to the others who worked in it, dealing with the reality of praying for healing regularly, and seeing the results, reality, and thoughts, and reasoning of many others working in healing ministries today - we doing regularly see immediate healings but the reality is that we don't always see it. We often see some healing then with some more prayer we get more even to complete healing. Still, there is a reason that it is written that Jesus is faithful to complete what He started!

Well, as I said, your healing "batting average" is far below what is recounted in Scripture and you have not indicated how you account for the Placebo Effect and guard against demonic counterfeit and the charlatanry of fellows like Benny Hinn and Todd White. People may actually be healed miraculously today but they are in a blizzard of false healings coming from all of these sources.

Philippians 1:6 where Paul writes that God is faithful to bring to completion the work He has started in the Philippian Christians has nothing to do with healing. At all.

K2K said:
And there is a real problem when we jump to our conclusion and interpretation but don't learn from the Lord. We can some to a conclusion that if Jesus was really involved that person would have complete healing, when He was involved and indeed do a work in a real person, and thus that statement can seriously hurt the person that hears it!!

The truth is often painful. This doesn't make it not true, nor is the pain the truth causes a reason not to speak it. Jesus spoke many hard truths to his followers. He was particularly severe in his truth-telling to the Pharisees!

K2K said:
The teacher in the class then proclaim, according to his understanding, that Jesus must not have been involved. This, as you should understand, seriously upset her, caused her to doubt her faith, caused her to get upset with God and the church in general.

And so? The teacher was right, scripturally. The woman's unhappy response to his biblically-accurate statement has nothing to do with this fact. The truth can be very upsetting; this doesn't make it not true, nor does it justify not saying what is true.

K2K said:
So did he think that Satan had instantly healed the cancer?

The demonic realm has done much false healing. Why, then, should he think that a healing not in keeping with Scripture is not a possible false healing? I think he has good grounds in Scripture for such a conclusion.

K2K said:
The fact is that we see healing today, and immediate healing today.

Yes, this does happen. Sometimes. Most of the time, what is claimed as miraculous, divine healing is no such thing.

K2K said:
That is, I might be able to believe God can heal me by using a doctor if I go to a hospital, and God might want to do that. But it is harder to believe that if I just pray for a Christian who has a broken bone that God can heal that immediately, and also hard for them to believe for it.

But why should God heal your broken bone miraculously when He has already given your body the power to heal itself naturally and modern medicine to aid that healing?

K2K said:
he fact is the more your pray for healing, the more you listen to the Lord and work with Him, the more you grow in Him and the deeper the relationship grows.

You don't need miraculous healing for any of this. And you don't see spiritual growth ever associated with healing in Scripture or taught by Paul, Peter, James or John as a means thereto.

K2K said:
My friends, Jesus wants people healed! He is love.

Jesus wants people healed spiritually. He wants to heal the fracture in their relationship to their holy Maker caused by their sin. And he will allow the disease and corruption, injury and death that sin causes to bring this spiritual healing to pass. It is more loving for Jesus to leave a person sick and even dying if it will secure their soul in him than to give them good health that fosters a wayward heart. Our physical condition here on earth is not nearly as important as our spiritual and eternal condition.

K2K said:
As for the person saying that anyone going to Jesus and asking Him for healing always gets healed: did he ever have a cold, a sniffle, a bumped toe or whatever? Where is the testimony as a answer to the question in the OP explaining the immediate healing he got?

No where in Scripture is being healed ever said to be a necessary part of walking with God. No where. And this is why we see Epaphroditus not being healed, nor was Trophimus, or Dorcas, or Timothy, or the apostle Paul himself. Often, it is in sickness and physical limitation that a person is most used by God and kept closest to Him. The life of Joni Eareckson-Tada is a great modern example of this.

K2K said:
I'll tell you what it is. It is getting into a deeper relationship with Him. You learn He can do it, but you might have to wait on Him?

It is a far, far greater "miracle" to see God change a person's heart, to transform their character and desires, than it is to see Him heal someone. No where in Scripture do we see healing set forth as an integral part of this transformation.

K2K · Oct 21, 2019

aiki said:
No, none of the Gospel accounts of Jesus's visit to Nazareth say that he was asked for healing by anyone.

It shouldn't be that hard to understand. Jesus was doing incredible things in an area around Galilee which is not all that big an area, and the word had gotten out about Him healing

Mark 3:9,10 And He told His disciples that a boat should stand ready for Him because of the multitude, in order that they might not crowd Him; for He had healed many, with the result that all those who had afflictions pressed about Him in order to touch Him.

Now in the above verse we all see that "He had healed many" - many of who? Well, many of "all those who had afflictions" that were coming seeking healing. Not all, in this case by many, and that is enough for people to press in on Him. And this word had also gotten around to Nazareth also, or do you think the people their didn't want to get heal? Of course they did.

Mark 6:1,2 and He went out from there, and He came into His home town; … and many listeners were astonished, saying, "Where did this man get there things, and what is this wisdom given to Him, and such miracles as these performed by His hands?

So you can see in that verse that they were well aware of the "such miracles as these performed by His hands" even though we find out a couple of verses later that He did not do miracles there except to heal a few sick people.

Mark 6:5 And He could co no miracle there except that He laid His hands upon a few sick people and healed them.

So they knew about the miracles!!! And certainly they too had many sick people wanting to get healed just like in the other towns!!! And you don't think they were thinking 'yeah, we are going to see some great miracles and healing'? My friends, there were there, knew, and had some expectations, just like the other areas where people were turning out for healing.

But a problem came up. They recognized Him as someone who grew up in town.

Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary....

That just wrecked it for them. Ok, it doesn't specifically say they asked Jesus for healing, but they were there and they were aware of the miracles He had done and they showed up, then they realized He had grown up in there town.

All this has meaning for us today... or why do we have the Bible?

Jesus Christ is alive and active today. He sends His Spirit and His Spirit can work with us though our spirit if we only are willing to listen to Him. Yet if someone gets to know me well then I can loose the ability to heal them by letting the Holy Spirit use me. This is very apparent to me, especially because of my kids. When they were young and more believing, I was able to pray according to the instructions the Lord gave me and we saw some neat miracles. My daughter had a problem with her knees and was the first person the Lord had me pray for healing, and the swelling in her knee started going down under my hand. It was the first time I had experienced such a thing, and it was incredible for both me and her. Later, my son had a problem with his foot and I prayed for it and there was something like a pop and movement and it was instantly healed.

I can't get do that anymore and haven't for a long time now. The got older and wiser than me. Just ask them. The lessons in the Bible are not just old stories, they apply to us today. Jesus is still alive and active, so how come we all haven't seem immediate miraculous healings, so that we have to ask if anyone has seen them? My friends, He can use you, if you care to believe it. You talk to Him, you listen to Him, you do as He asked, which all take faith that results in hearing by faith. Then you will see the miracles and immediate healing, but not all the time. Jesus, when in the flesh saw the incredible miracles but not at Nazareth!!!! He could not do great miracles there, which did not mean they people didn't want them, or were did not show up thinking to get healing, but only that they couldn't believe that Jesus, that kids that grew up in their town could be used by God.

Are there people you saw grow up in your church who you don't think God could use to do miracles?

I spent five years in that healing ministry and most of the time, over four years, as a leader of a prayer team, and I would usually use the newest member to do the praying for the healing of the person, because I knew it was never about the person praying but about the Lord. The best way for the new people to get that message was to have them do laying on of hands and praying, and then watch. Of course I had to listen to the Lord to make sure that was what He wanted, but the Lord loved using and showing the new members of our teams what could happened.

aiki · Oct 21, 2019

K2K said:
It shouldn't be that hard to understand.

It's not. So, why are you pushing for a version of the story that doesn't rest squarely on Scripture? You're having to extrapolate and imagine and then force your extrapolations and imaginings into Scripture. This is called eisegesis and is a sure way to a faulty understanding of God's word.

K2K said:
Mark 3:9,10 And He told His disciples that a boat should stand ready for Him because of the multitude, in order that they might not crowd Him; for He had healed many, with the result that all those who had afflictions pressed about Him in order to touch Him.

Now in the above verse we all see that "He had healed many" - many of who? Well, many of "all those who had afflictions" that were coming seeking healing. Not all, in this case by many, and that is enough for people to press in on Him. And this word had also gotten around to Nazareth also, or do you think the people their didn't want to get heal? Of course they did.

Well, hang on, now. The passage from Mark 3 doesn't say that Jesus didn't heal all that came to him for healing. I can say, "I ate all the jellybeans and they were many," without contradicting myself. "Many" and "all" are not necessarily mutually-exclusive descriptions. And this is true in the verses from Mark 3 that you cited. They don't say that Christ healed many who came to him for healing but not all. This is your distortion of the verse to make it fit your view. We simply aren't told in this passage if Jesus healed all who came to him for healing or not.

Word may have traveled to Nazareth of Jesus's miraculous healing of people but we aren't told this in Scripture. You are assuming - guessing - at what might have been the case and then trying to make an assertion from your guess. This is not how one comes to the truth of things.

K2K said:
Mark 6:1,2 and He went out from there, and He came into His home town; … and many listeners were astonished, saying, "Where did this man get there things, and what is this wisdom given to Him, and such miracles as these performed by His hands?

So you can see in that verse that they were well aware of the "such miracles as these performed by His hands" even though we find out a couple of verses later that He did not do miracles there except to heal a few sick people.

The verses don't say what miracles they were "well aware of," does it? No, it doesn't. And more importantly, the verses don't say people came to him for healing and were not healed.

K2K said:
Mark 6:5 And He could co no miracle there except that He laid His hands upon a few sick people and healed them.

So they knew about the miracles!!! And certainly they too had many sick people wanting to get healed just like in the other towns!!! And you don't think they were thinking 'yeah, we are going to see some great miracles and healing'? My friends, there were there, knew, and had some expectations, just like the other areas where people were turning out for healing.

The whole point of the story was to illustrate how skeptical the people of Nazareth were toward Jesus and how this limited what Jesus was able to do for them. Their skepticism kept most of them from believing he could perform miracles and so only a few approached Jesus to be healed (and were healed). Nothing in any of the three Gospel accounts of Jesus's visit to Nazareth indicates that Jesus did not heal all who came to him for healing. And so, I am well within the bounds of Scripture to say that Jesus did heal all who came to him to be healed - unlike modern "healers" who fall well short of Jesus's example, "healing" folks only sporadically.

K2K said:
Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary....

That just wrecked it for them. Ok, it doesn't specifically say they asked Jesus for healing, but they were there and they were aware of the miracles He had done and they showed up, then they realized He had grown up in there town.

All this has meaning for us today... or why do we have the Bible?

Right: It doesn't say the people of Nazareth asked Jesus for healing. But the story does tell us they were highly skeptical of him. On what scriptural grounds, then, can you contend for the notion that they wanted Jesus to heal them, and asked him to do so, but he was unable to comply? Why would people with such high skepticism about Jesus approach him at all for healing? One account actually tells us that their skepticism was so great that they grew violent toward Jesus and tried to throw him off of a cliff! This doesn't sound at all like a group of people who were wanting Jesus to heal the sick among them. So, no, the story of Jesus's visit to Nazareth does not defeat the assertion that Jesus healed all those who came to him for healing.

K2K said:
Jesus Christ is alive and active today. He sends His Spirit and His Spirit can work with us though our spirit if we only are willing to listen to Him.

God's will is done whether we listen to Him or not. Yes, He will use as we are "vessels sanctified and meet for His use and prepared unto every good work," but the record of Scripture show us He can and will use us even if we are utterly opposed to Him. Not even the devil is exempt from being used by God to serve God's ends. My point is that the Spirit is not subject to our desires, or quality of character, or level of belief in order to do what he wants to do. He would rather work through willing vessels but he is not limited to working only through such vessels.

K2K said:
The lessons in the Bible are not just old stories, they apply to us today.

I agree. They do.

K2K said:
Jesus is still alive and active, so how come we all haven't seem immediate miraculous healings, so that we have to ask if anyone has seen them?

Because miraculous healing has little to nothing to do with walking with God. He is interested in our eternal destiny and our spiritual condition, not whether the physical bodies we are in that will eventually die and rot away are in top working condition. And this is why we see in Scripture that a number of Christians who were sick were not miraculously healed and that healing is no where mentioned in Scripture as integral to walking with God or to spiritual growth.

K2K · Oct 22, 2019

aiki said:
It's not. So, why are you pushing for a version of the story that doesn't rest squarely on Scripture? You're having to extrapolate and imagine and then force your extrapolations and imaginings into Scripture. This is called eisegesis and is a sure way to a faulty understanding of God's word.

Well, hang on, now. The passage from Mark 3 doesn't say that Jesus didn't heal all that came to him for healing. I can say, "I ate all the jellybeans and they were many," without contradicting myself. "Many" and "all" are not necessarily mutually-exclusive descriptions. And this is true in the verses from Mark 3 that you cited. They don't say that Christ healed many who came to him for healing but not all. This is your distortion of the verse to make it fit your view. We simply aren't told in this passage if Jesus healed all who came to hi

The passage doesn't say that He healed all and there were many - as your jellybean story does. It says that all those who had afflictions press about Him and He healed many - and you think I am miss understanding it?

Things are not different now than they were then. Jesus lives!! People still want to press into Him to get healing, if they believe He is there, and many get healed. However even all those who even get healed because they pressed into Him to get healing are going to get to know Him, because they were pressing in for healing instead of relationship. We see that in what He later told the very areas where He did the most healing.

People also press into for other reasons, like to test Him aka. the Pharisees, and they too were not interested in the deeper relationship with Him. That deeper relationship requires spending time talking to Him, getting to know Him, and finding out what He wants to do and when. He wants people healed. I have heard that a number of times from Him. I heard that many if not most days when I was working in the healing ministry. So why didn't they all get healed? It turns out there were a number of reasons.

After the season ended He had me go over to my local Taco Bell, get something to eat for dinner and He we talked. He would ask me how I thought the night went, and I would give my oppions. He would correct and teach me, in a very nice way. So it was I learned. That is what it means to be a disciple of His. He sheep do hear His voice. They still do. Of course I had also talked to Him while doing the praying and leading, but there is not time then to really cover the reasons and why things happening.

A common problem was that it is written that if you don't forgive others God won't forgive you. This often effects the ability to heal. His plan for people is important. He may want them healed at a certain time for a reason. We already talked about faith, and that includes both the person needing healing and the person praying for it. Then as just mention, people often want the healing and not the relationship, so He might give some healing to draw them into the relationship, or postpone it to see if they do turn back to Him. Remember the lepers that He prayed for and they were later healed on the road but only one came back to Him. Was he not capable of healing them instantly? No, He had other reasons.

If you are His disciple, you sit down afterwards and reason with Him, like when the disciples ask Him about a healing He did and whether it was that man's sin or his parents, but Jesus explained that it was neither but there was timing and glorifity the Son, and it was obviously all part of God's plan.

We need to talk to Him! We need to get into a deeper relationship! All the jellybeans, so to speak, will go somewhere. And all knees will bow down to Him one day, but hell is still hot and His sheep still hear His voice.

aiki · Oct 22, 2019

K2K said:
It says that all those who had afflictions press about Him and He healed many - and you think I am miss understanding it?

This isn't stated in any of the three Gospel accounts of Jesus's visit to Nazareth. None of them say that a press of people desiring healing surrounded Jesus when he was in Nazareth. You're thinking of what was said three chapters earlier in Mark where Jesus is somewhere else entirely. So, yes, you are misunderstanding.

K2K said:
Things are not different now than they were then.

Well, yes, they are. For one, those today claiming to have brought miraculous healing to people do not have the success rate that Jesus or the disciples had.

K2K said:
People still want to press into Him to get healing, if they believe He is there, and many get healed. However even all those who even get healed because they pressed into Him to get healing are going to get to know Him, because they were pressing in for healing instead of relationship. We see that in what He later told the very areas where He did the most healing.

Do you recall the story of the Ten Lepers whom Jesus healed? How many of them returned to Jesus to thank him? Only one. I don't get the impression that everyone Jesus healed became his follower. Many times, people coming to Christians for healing just want to be free of their affliction but have no interest whatever in the Source of divine healing.

K2K said:
That deeper relationship requires spending time talking to Him, getting to know Him, and finding out what He wants to do and when.

And one only needs to prayerfully study Scripture to know and understand who God is and what His will is. Healing is in no way integral to doing so.

K2K said:
He wants people healed. I have heard that a number of times from Him.

I see this no where taught in Scripture. And I take God's word over your word - or anyone else's - always. God wants us to be spiritually healed, to be in right relationship with Him, healed of the fracture that our sin has caused in our relationship to Him. Physical healing is not at all integral to this spiritual healing.

K2K said:
After the season ended He had me go over to my local Taco Bell, get something to eat for dinner and He we talked. He would ask me how I thought the night went, and I would give my oppions. He would correct and teach me, in a very nice way. So it was I learned. That is what it means to be a disciple of His. He sheep do hear His voice.

I'm sorry, but I see no where in Scripture any ground at all for thinking that you can sit and talk with God, hearing Him speak to you in your mind just as another human would talk to you on the phone or in conversation over a cup of coffee. There is not a single instance in all of Scripture where we are told God did this in the past, or will do so with us now. Instead, He has spoken to us in His word, the Bible. All that He wants us to know about Himself, about His will and way, about His wisdom, truth, and spiritual principles, and about the future, He has revealed to us in Scripture (2 Timothy 3:16-17: Psalms 119:105). If I want to hear from God, I simply open up my Bible and read it. This is a far surer way to hear from God than by way of a voice in one's head that may just be one's own self-talk or a demonic counterfeit.

The verse from John 10 that talks about Christ's sheep hearing his voice is not talking about a voice in the minds of his sheep but of the Gospel and the "voice" of Christ in Scripture illuminated by the Holy Spirit. (Matthew 7:24; John 8:31; John 15:10-11; etc.)

In Scripture, God used a burning bush, tablets of stone, a disembodied hand writing on a wall, prophets, angels, a talking donkey, visions and dreams to speak to people but not once do I ever read in Scripture of God talking directly to someone in their head. For this reason, when someone tells me they have heard God speaking to them in their head, I am very skeptical and believe that what they are hearing is just their own self-talk and maybe demonic counterfeit, too, that they've come think is God's voice.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

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