What is so great about Lot?

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Redwingfan9

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We know that he offered his virgin daughters to rapists. And then had sex with them, resulting in pregnancies. Why did God find him righteous?
Because of Jesus Christ. That's Lot's righteousness. The whole point of Lot is that he isn't righteous on his own. He points us to the Savior.
 
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joshua 1 9

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We know that he offered his virgin daughters to rapists. And then had sex with them, resulting in pregnancies. Why did God find him righteous?
Lot is a type of the church today. Just as the Church will be removed from the world - Lot was removed from the city before the city was destroyed. In the church seldom do people object to their daughters being intimate with non Christians, but they are against the sin of homosexuality. Would we all feel better if the story said that righteous lot turned his back and pretended to ignore his daughters playing with the infidels and reprobates? When it was in his power to stop them from doing that. If we feel what Lot did was wrong then maybe we need to examine ourselves in regards to our sons and daughters and what we are willing to approve of.
 
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Robin Mauro

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We know that he offered his virgin daughters to rapists. And then had sex with them, resulting in pregnancies. Why did God find him righteous?
No, I know. Horrible story. But his daughters did get him so drunk he was passed out. That part was not his idea, although he was responsible for his own drinking.
And I get your point, totally, but "What is so great about Lot?"
He was sinful, and yet forgiven, I assume because he believed in God, even though his behavior was quite appaling. And Abraham loved him. ( but I bet they had their differences too...big ones!)
 
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Robin Mauro

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Abraham, a man willing to kill his son. Good call.
I asked you in another thread Em, if you were/are a believer, and said if you did not answer, that was an answer. You did not answer.
I believe when you signed up for this forum you agreed you ARE a Christian, but it seems you are not, and are, in fact, on this website to try to disprove the Bible.
But there is a God, one God, and He hates duplicity, so at least be honest about where you are coming from. Since you are not a believer, I assume, if you have questions, if you are truly searching for the truth, then ask away. Just be clear as to where you are at; what you believe and don't believe. And you are asking the right questions. The hard questions. Questions every thinking believer asks.
And ya, I always hated the story of Abraham being called to kill his son too, but it is a foreshadowing of what Jesus did for us, and also, Jews have a tradition that it was also a way for God to say no child sacrifice, which was rampant in that day.
I thought of that myself, but it took me years to come to that thought, then I went and heard a Jewish poet, and he rambled it off as if it was common knowlege. I was stunned.
But I think it was also a test for all of us reading it. Because not far before that, that same story, if you take it as a whole, which you/we should, and very early on in the Bible, God tells Abraham He is going to destroy Sodom ans Ghamorra (sp?) and Abraham has this long, very touching kind of argument with him....
'But God, what if there are 100 righteous there...you would not destroy the righteous with the just would you? And God says no, if there are 100 righteous I will not destroy them. Then Abraham rethinks it, and says but what if there are 50? Again God says no.
Abraham finally gets down to a really small number to which God replies again no, but at the same time is sendimg his angels to retrieve Lot and his daughters (their husbands would not come if I remember correctly).
The point is,( in spite of my bad paraphrase of the story), that God knows what he is doing. And the Bible leaves out a whole lot. We do not know Isaac's perspective on the matter, but we do know he continued to be a believer.
So the question is, what do you believe? And who do you trust?
Ironically, it was Satan that taught me to believe in God, in large part, many years ago, because I have seen Satan's works, (evil) and I have seen God's, (Good) and I will trust God, in spite of the many things I do not understand.
That story about Abraham questioning God, if He would destroy the righteous along with the wicked, was like God saying, 'you're going to read some difficult things ahead...Who do you trust?'
 
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coffee4u

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We know that he offered his virgin daughters to rapists. And then had sex with them, resulting in pregnancies. Why did God find him righteous?

I think Lot was a righteous man who had backslid. He knew God, knew his word but he wasn't living it. He chose to live in a very wicked place and I think living in that city had rubbed off on him to the extent that his thinking was corrupted.
1 Corinthians 15:33
33 Do not be deceived: “Evil company corrupts good habits.”

Most people are not all good or all bad and Lot obviously had some good because he tried to do right by the visitors. Yet he offered his daughter's to rapists. Given that the culture viewed women as cattle its not hard to see how he thought that as no big deal. He also didn't leave when God told him to. He got saved for Abraham's sake. There may have been others in the household who escaped with him and it's possible they were righteous. Just because they weren't mentioned doesn't mean a maid or some other household servants could not have been there too.

As for those 'virgin' daughter's, we only have Lot's word on that and I highly doubt they were. Unmarried yes, but definitely not innocent. Once past the city they got their father drunk, had sex with him and got pregnant. If anything they were worse than Lot. The children they bore in sin became the Ammonites and Moabites. Evil people that God would tell the Jews to destroy later on. All through scripture where a country/tribe of people were shown to be very wicked, they came about because of sexual sin.

Since God did destroy the city he obviously couldn't even find 10 righteous. Perhaps once this was all over Lot became the righteous man that the Bible says that he was. We are only shown a small slice of his life.
 
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Robin Mauro

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I don't think God did find him righteous. When Abraham argues with God about Sodom, he argues God down to 10 people: if there are 10 righteous people in the city, God agrees to spare the city. We don't know how big Lot's household was, but with Lot, his wife, his daughters, whatever household servants they had, it might well have come to 10 people. Yet the city was destroyed.

As others have noted, Lot seems to have been spared for Abraham's sake, but I don't see Genesis commending him for being righteous.
But God called Lot righteous in the New Testament, so it must be as a failure in many ways, a sinner, and yet forgiven, because he was a believer, in spite of his failures, as are we all.
 
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Robin Mauro

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I’m more of a golden rule follower. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. That seems to suffice.
But you won't be saved by that, because you are a sinner just like the rest of us. You don't always do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
That's why Jesus died, a brutal death, for us all. We do not live up, but in fact, fail in a million ways. Fortunately for us, God is God, and not Satan, and He loves us, and made a way.
 
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Emmylouwho

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Emmylouwho

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I think Lot was a righteous man who had backslid. He knew God, knew his word but he wasn't living it. He chose to live in a very wicked place and I think living in that city had rubbed off on him to the extent that his thinking was corrupted.
1 Corinthians 15:33
33 Do not be deceived: “Evil company corrupts good habits.”

Most people are not all good or all bad and Lot obviously had some good because he tried to do right by the visitors. Yet he offered his daughter's to rapists. Given that the culture viewed women as cattle its not hard to see how he thought that as no big deal. He also didn't leave when God told him to. He got saved for Abraham's sake. There may have been others in the household who escaped with him and it's possible they were righteous. Just because they weren't mentioned doesn't mean a maid or some other household servants could not have been there too.

As for those 'virgin' daughter's, we only have Lot's word on that and I highly doubt they were. Unmarried yes, but definitely not innocent. Once past the city they got their father drunk, had sex with him and got pregnant. If anything they were worse than Lot. The children they bore in sin became the Ammonites and Moabites. Evil people that God would tell the Jews to destroy later on. All through scripture where a country/tribe of people were shown to be very wicked, they came about because of sexual sin.

Since God did destroy the city he obviously couldn't even find 10 righteous. Perhaps once this was all over Lot became the righteous man that the Bible says that he was. We are only shown a small slice of his life.
It is one thing to backslide. It is something different when you offer your child to a rapist. I can’t believe that there are people excusing this.
 
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Emmylouwho

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I asked you in another thread Em, if you were/are a believer, and said if you did not answer, that was an answer. You did not answer.
I believe when you signed up for this forum you agreed you ARE a Christian, but it seems you are not, and are, in fact, on this website to try to disprove the Bible.
But there is a God, one God, and He hates duplicity, so at least be honest about where you are coming from. Since you are not a believer, I assume, if you have questions, if you are truly searching for the truth, then ask away. Just be clear as to where you are at; what you believe and don't believe. And you are asking the right questions. The hard questions. Questions every thinking believer asks.
And ya, I always hated the story of Abraham being called to kill his son too, but it is a foreshadowing of what Jesus did for us, and also, Jews have a tradition that it was also a way for God to say no child sacrifice, which was rampant in that day.
I thought of that myself, but it took me years to come to that thought, then I went and heard a Jewish poet, and he rambled it off as if it was common knowlege. I was stunned.
But I think it was also a test for all of us reading it. Because not far before that, that same story, if you take it as a whole, which you/we should, and very early on in the Bible, God tells Abraham He is going to destroy Sodom ans Ghamorra (sp?) and Abraham has this long, very touching kind of argument with him....
'But God, what if there are 100 righteous there...you would not destroy the righteous with the just would you? And God says no, if there are 100 righteous I will not destroy them. Then Abraham rethinks it, and says but what if there are 50? Again God says no.
Abraham finally gets down to a really small number to which God replies again no, but at the same time is sendimg his angels to retrieve Lot and his daughters (their husbands would not come if I remember correctly).
The point is,( in spite of my bad paraphrase of the story), that God knows what he is doing. And the Bible leaves out a whole lot. We do not know Isaac's perspective on the matter, but we do know he continued to be a believer.
So the question is, what do you believe? And who do you trust?
Ironically, it was Satan that taught me to believe in God, in large part, many years ago, because I have seen Satan's works, (evil) and I have seen God's, (Good) and I will trust God, in spite of the many things I do not understand.
That story about Abraham questioning God, if He would destroy the righteous along with the wicked, was like God saying, 'you're going to read some difficult things ahead...Who do you trust?'
How do you turn an incestuous guy into a hero?
 
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Robin Mauro

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I am sorry that you view this as sarcasm. It’s not. I have a new thread here on father-raping because a poster suggested I was off-topic on another thread.
The language is offensive, and flipant. Since you are not a Christian, why are you on this website Em?
" The integrity of the just shall guide them: and the duplicity of the wicked shall destroy them."
Proverbs 11:3
Your ulterior motives are showing.
 
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coffee4u

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It is one thing to backslide. It is something different when you offer your child to a rapist. I can’t believe that there are people excusing this.

I never excused it. Don't know how you got that impression. He did the wrong thing even for that time. But those girls were not the innocent children that you are trying to make them out to be. 'Nice' girls don't go and rape their own father.
 
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Emmylouwho

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The language is offensive, and flipant. Since you are not a Christian, why are you on this website Em?
" The integrity of the just shall guide them: and the duplicity of the wicked shall destroy them."
Proverbs 11:3
Your ulterior motives are showing.
What did I say was offensive?
 
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Emmylouwho

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The language is offensive, and flipant. Since you are not a Christian, why are you on this website Em?
" The integrity of the just shall guide them: and the duplicity of the wicked shall destroy them."
Proverbs 11:3
Your ulterior motives are showing.
I have barely expressed an opinion, other than deciding Paul was not speaking to me. I mainly ask questions. Do my questions make you uncomfortable?
 
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Robin Mauro

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I have barely expressed an opinion, other than deciding Paul was not speaking to me. I mainly ask questions. Do my questions make you uncomfortable?
Not at all, but you are being duplicitous, and you know it.
And I know who you are Em, off the web. You think you are being so slick, but you're not.
Don't you know God sees everything? God knows everything? God knows your deepest motives?
If you really want to learn something, learn what this means:
"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom."
 
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Emmylouwho

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Not at all, but you are being duplicitous, and you know it.
And I know who you are Em, off the web. You think you are being so slick, but you're not.
Don't you know God sees everything? God knows everything? God knows your deepest motives?
If you really want to learn something, learn what this means:
"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom."
What is your deal?
 
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coffee4u

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I have barely expressed an opinion, other than deciding Paul was not speaking to me. I mainly ask questions. Do my questions make you uncomfortable?

Lets see, you post in a Christian only forum while your profile says 'seeking'. We give you answers that you won't accept and claim we are somehow condoning sin because we are trying to explain why people did what they did. This thread isn't on Paul, it's on Lot.
So yes we are questioning your motives.
 
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