How prevalent is father-raping?

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Swan7

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I cannot find a case outside of this, where a woman has raped her father. There are cases where women have "raped" minors.

While I don't agree with what they did, I can see why, looking at it from their perspective. They were afraid they would die off since their father brought them to a cave to dwell in. How far away from Zoar I'm not sure. Their suitors died with Sodom and Gomorrah since they did not flee with them. They did not however seek the Lord for this issue, that was their mistake.
 
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Silverback

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Another poster brought up a good point. Lot was apparently raped by two of his daughters. How often does this happen outside of the Bible? I honestly have never heard of such a case. Does anyone know of an instance where a woman raped her father?

None that I can think of, but, people participate in every other form of vile sexual behavior, so I'm pretty sure it happens.
 
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HardHead

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There are cases where women have "raped" minors.
Is it not the case that any sex with a minor is a de facto rape since minors are not competent to give consent?

This is probably true of anyone that is not competent to consent such as a mentally ill person, a drunk adult, etc.

Gender is not really relevant in this, from how I understand it.
 
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Sabertooth

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Is it not the case that any sex with a minor is a de facto rape since minors are not competent to give consent?
That is why she put "raped" in quotes.
 
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HardHead

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That is why she put "raped" in quotes.
In my opinion, the quotes make no sense because sex with minors IS rape. There is nothing ironic or fictional about that in my view.
 
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Sabertooth

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In my opinion, the quotes make no sense because sex with minors IS rape.
I acknowledge the laws of the land in that regard, but the standard for majority is man-made and arbitrary. Our Savior was carried by a 15yo (or younger) after all. (But that is/was a topic for a whole other thread...)
 
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HardHead

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I acknowledge the laws of the land in that regard, but the standard for majority is man-made and arbitrary. Our Savior was carried by a 15yo (or younger) after all. (But that is/was a topic for a whole other thread...)

OK, I'll buy that for now for the sake of conversation.

Your point of not projecting current morals and laws onto the past is a good one.
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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Another poster brought up a good point. Lot was apparently raped by two of his daughters. How often does this happen outside of the Bible? I honestly have never heard of such a case. Does anyone know of an instance where a woman raped her father?
The cause was not because of lust or power as most rapes are. The daughters wanted children, and because they lost their husbands in the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, they saw their father as just a sperm donor.
 
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HardHead

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they saw their father as just a sperm donor.
My reflex is that if he was drunk, he did not consent so this is rape.

However, I'm not sure this makes complete sense due to the physical effect of alcohol. By this I mean that he may not have been drunk enough to not be able to give consent AND at the same time to be able to perform sexual acts.

Aside from that speculation, did he know the women were his daughters relative to Genesis 19:33 and Genesis 19:35? It seems strange that he would not know other than if their identity was somehow concealed.
 
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Sabertooth

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Your point of not projecting current morals and laws onto the past is a good one.
Even in modern times, ephebophilia is not considered to be pathological, just illegal (before 18). And we, Christians, recognize it as premarital sex.
 
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Emmylouwho

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I cannot find a case outside of this, where a woman has raped her father. There are cases where women have "raped" minors.

While I don't agree with what they did, I can see why, looking at it from their perspective. They were afraid they would die off since their father brought them to a cave to dwell in. How far away from Zoar I'm not sure. Their suitors died with Sodom and Gomorrah since they did not flee with them. They did not however seek the Lord for this issue, that was their mistake.
Why would preserving the family line be an excuse for incest and rape?
 
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coffee4u

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Why would preserving the family line be an excuse for incest and rape?

It's not and people are not telling you that it is. They are trying to show you how people of that time thought.
 
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Sabertooth

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See my post on interaction with minors and it being rape.
In my opinion, the quotes make no sense because sex with minors IS rape. There is nothing ironic or fictional about that in my view.
I'm not sure what you are alluding to.
  • Pathology is determined by the medical field and is consistent with historical Biblical practices (when married). Attraction to a 15yo is not considered pathological.
  • Legality is determined by local laws. Sex with a 15yo is considered illegal.
  • Biblically speaking, if said laws did not prohibit consent at 15, our only concern would be whether the (unrelated) couple was married or not. Sex, even with consent, is considered unethical outside of marriage.
 
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Emmylouwho

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You presume too much. I'm Christian and I don't hold that view at all. See my post on interaction with minors and it being rape.[/QUOT
Let me put it to you another way
It's not and people are not telling you that it is. They are trying to show you how people of that time thought.
so, is it inspired by God, or by people?
 
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Silverback

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That is why she put "raped" in quotes.

That definition is of more recent origin. Rape, even when I was young had an implied element of violence. There were other names for things like sex with a minor, a drunk person, or, someone developmentally disabled.

Unlawful Carnal Knowledge comes to mind.
 
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coffee4u

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Is what inspired by God? Sin? No.

If you mean is the Bible inspired by God, yes.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

The Bible doesn't just say "Do this and live this way" It's also a history book of mankind's failings. Even great men of God like David were not spared having their sin be publicly announced and read for hundreds of years.

The law in the Old Testament was given to show people that they couldn't keep the law.

Why?

Because they needed a saviour.
Jesus said "I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.” Luke 5:32.
 
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