Antichrist

Jonathan Walkerin

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Where I am, the suicide rate is climbing, we have major drug problems, alcohol abuse, a domestic violence epidemic and people's standard of living is in decline. Unemployment is high, whatever the statistics say. Many of those who are in work are not earning enough to live on, especially the young. I'm not so concerned about living standards.

This really sounds like your perception of your immediate neigbourhood. Which is fine and what most of us really care about.

Thing is just to understand that it does not mean globally things are going to hell. Probably even around your neighbourhood things are not that bad when looked historically. We just often get confirmation bias going on.

I'm concerned that North Korea has nuclear weapons and that China still eyes off Taiwan. Not to mention Hong Kong.

It is fine to be concerned, it is even better to be rational about it. It is hardly in North Korea`s or China`s interest to start a war and Hong Kong will fall to China legally whatever demonstrations they hold.

"As in the days of Noah"

It is the same song and dance just about every generation. Things are looking worse, the youth are so and so , barbarians are restless, nobody respects the elderly, people like to have sex (what a surprise).

This means just about what it meant 1000 years ago - nothing out of ordinary.
 
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Aussie Pete

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This really sounds like your perception of your immediate neigbourhood. Which is fine and what most of us really care about.

Thing is just to understand that it does not mean globally things are going to hell. Probably even around your neighbourhood things are not that bad when looked historically. We just often get confirmation bias going on.



It is fine to be concerned, it is even better to be rational about it. It is hardly in North Korea`s or China`s interest to start a war and Hong Kong will fall to China legally whatever demonstrations they hold.



It is the same song and dance just about every generation. Things are looking worse, the youth are so and so , barbarians are restless, nobody respects the elderly, people like to have sex (what a surprise).

This means just about what it meant 1000 years ago - nothing out of ordinary.
We will see. Let's compare notes in 20 years.
 
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Aussie Pete

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But we can know where hes born and where he comes to power. Daniel tells us, if we are perceptive.
Most scholars believe that Daniel was foretelling the rise of Antiochus Epiphanes. He certainly fit the description.
 
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Douggg

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Hi Erik, that web site representing a RCC view, shows the shortcoming in not first establishing what the concept of Christ is - in order to comprehend the concept of the Antichrist.

The commentary about the Antichrist being the Roman emperors - misses the who point that Christ is the concept of being the King of Israel - not the King of the Roman Empire.

The person will no longer the Antichrist - illegitimate (not sent by God) King of Israel - when he reveals himself as the man of sin. He transitions into being the beast King of the Roman Empire end times.



upload_2019-10-19_7-20-25.jpeg
 
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BABerean2

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Hi Erik, that web site representing a RCC view, shows the shortcoming in not first establishing what the concept of Christ is - in order to comprehend the concept of the Antichrist.

The commentary about the Antichrist being the Roman emperors - misses the who point that Christ is the concept of being the King of Israel - not the King of the Roman Empire.

The person will no longer the Antichrist - illegitimate (not sent by God) King of Israel - when he reveals himself as the man of sin. He transitions into being the beast King of the Roman Empire end times.



View attachment 265245

Can you show us a singular antecedent for an antichrist in Daniel chapter 9?

Do you think the angel Gabriel came to reveal the timeline of the Messiah who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and then the angel failed to even mention the New Covenant?

Based on Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, was the Gospel taken "first" to the Daniel's people for 7 years before Paul began his ministry to the Gentiles?



Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner

.
 
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Revealing Times

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Most scholars believe that Daniel was foretelling the rise of Antiochus Epiphanes. He certainly fit the description.

We were given the coming TYPE of Anti-Christ in Antiochus, and if we look we can also see the False Prophet TYPE during Antiochus' reign, his name was Jason {real name Yeshua} and he bribed Antiochus into naming him the Jewish High Priest, thus killing his real brother, the High Priest named Onias III, who was a Pious man. Jason tried to Hellenize the Jews leading to the Maccabean Revolt, thus his Hellenized name of Jason whereas Jesus was named Yeshua also.

I don't know who the scholars are, maybe they aren't biblical scholars, because most biblical scholars understand that the book of Daniel was speaking about an End Times King starting in verses 36-45.

The Anti-Christ has to be born in Greece and he has to come to in the E.U. Its the only thing that fits because in Dan. 7 he has to arise out of the old Fourth Beast {Come to power in the E.U.} and in Dan. 8 he has to arise out of one of the Four Generals Kingdoms in the latter time, and only Greece, out of the Four is in the E.U., so he is an Assyrian Turk, born in Greece, who comes to power in the E.U.
 
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Douggg

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Can you show us a singular antecedent for an antichrist in Daniel chapter 9?

Do you think the angel Gabriel came to reveal the timeline of the Messiah who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and then the angel failed to even mention the New Covenant?

Based on Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, was the Gospel taken "first" to the Daniel's people for 7 years before Paul began his ministry to the Gentiles?



Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner

.
I have responded to the same question you have asked many times. Your post is the same copy and paste post that you make over and over. It was wrong the first time - and will continue to be wrong no matter how many times you post it.

The term New Covenant is not in Daniel 9, anywhere. Do you think that Daniel intentionally omitted Gabriel's words of "New Covenant"?

I have pointed out to you that Dr. Kelly Varner in that video had made a false statement in saying the only place anyone can get 7 years in the bible regarding a covenant is in Daniel 9.

Did Dr. Kelly Varner at any point in his life make a statement showing that he understood that "the Christ"
function is being the King of Israel?
 
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BABerean2

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The term New Covenant is not in Daniel 9, anywhere. Do you think that Daniel intentionally omitted Gabriel's words of "New Covenant"?

The promise of the New Covenant is found in the Book of Jeremiah, and Daniel was reading from the Book of Jeremiah when the angel Gabriel appeared.

It was no mystery to those who published the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America. They understood the covenant in Daniel 9:27 to be the one fulfilled by Christ. However, that was before John Nelson Darby showed up in America, with his Two Peoples of God doctrine.


Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.

Daniel 9:27
And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Most scholars believe that Daniel was foretelling the rise of Antiochus Epiphanes. He certainly fit the description.
That depends on how one interprets that great North vs South war in Daniel 11
[I have a thread on it for those interested]
One preterist commentator appears to split that Chapter into 2 separate events, [much like some partial preterist divide up Matt 24] including the 1st century great Jewish/Roman Wars in the 1st century leading up to 70AD Jerusalem and 73AD fall of Masada.
I am looking more in to it...........

Daniel 11 and the great North/Israel/Gentiles vs South/Judah War

Daniel 10:1
In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia a thing was revealed to Daniel, whose name was called Belteshazzar; and the thing was true, even a great warfare<6635>
and he understood the thing, and had understanding of the vision.

Jer 3:11
Then the LORD said to me, “Backsliding Israel has shown herself more righteous than treacherous Judah.
Jer 3:18
“In those days the house of Judah/Southern Kingdom shall walk with the house of Israel/Northern Kingdom, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given as an inheritance to your fathers.
====================

YLT)Daniel 11:
35And some of the teachers do stumble for refining by them, and for purifying, and for making white — till the end of the time, for [it is] yet for a time appointed.

36‘And the king hath done according to his will, and exalteth himself, and magnifieth himself against every god, and against the God of gods he speaketh wonderful things, and hath prospered till the indignation hath been completed, for that which is determined hath been done. 37And unto the God of his fathers he doth not attend, nor to the desire of women, yea, to any god he doth not attend, for against all he magnifieth himself. 38And to the god of strongholds, on his station, he giveth honour; yea, to a god whom his fathers knew not he giveth honour, with gold, and with silver, and with precious stone, and with desirable things. 39And he hath dealt in the fortresses of the strongholds with a strange god whom he hath acknowledged; he multiplieth honour, and hath caused them to rule over many, and the ground he apportioneth at a price.

40‘And at the time of the end, push himself forward with him doth a king of the south, and storm against him doth a king of the north, with chariot, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he hath come in to the lands, and hath overflowed, and passed over, 41and hath come into the desirable land, and many do stumble, and these escape from his hand: Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the sons of Ammon. 42‘And he sendeth forth his hand upon the lands, and the land of Egypt is not for an escape; 43and he hath ruled over treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the desirable things of Egypt, and Lubim and Cushim [are] at his steps. 44‘And reports trouble him out of the east and out of the north, and he hath gone forth in great fury to destroy, and to devote many to destruction; 45and he planteth the tents of his palace between the seas and the holy desirable mountain, and hath come unto his end, and there is no helper to him.
==========================================
Preterist view of Daniel 11 and 1st century fulfillment...

Daniel Chapter 11:35-45 Commentary: Every Prophecy Miraculously Fulfilled! - Revelation Revolution

Who was the Willful King, and Who was the King of the North?

Many historians try to explain away the prophetic accuracy of the Book of Daniel by theorizing that this book must have been written during the second century B.C., a time in which most of Daniel’s prophecies had been fulfilled. Daniel 11:2-35 lists a chronological sequence of events spanning 360 years from the sixth to the second century B.C.–without having made a single mistake. In these verses, Daniel describes the rise of the Greek Empire, its subsequent partition into four parts, followed by a mysteriously accurate description of the foreign relations between two of its divisions: the Seleucid and Ptolemaic Empires of Syria and Egypt respectively. In Daniel 11, the king of the Seleucids is labeled the king of the north, and the king of the Ptolemies is called the king of the south.
In this chapter, Daniel describes a chronological series of wars, treaties and marriages between these two warring empires. Highlighting significant aspects of the reign of each king, the prophet proceeds with his chronology often without specifying the death of one king and the rise of another. Each king and his successor are simply called the king of the north or the king of the south. This lack of specificity has led to the notion that the willful king of vs. 36-43 is Antiochus Epiphanies, the king of the north, the same king described earlier in v. 32.

Every Prophecy Fulfilled! Preterism and Daniel Chapter 11: Is the Willful King Antiochus Epiphanes, the King of the North?

From vs. 21-32, Daniel’s description of Antiochus Epiphanes, the king of the north, is accurate by all accounts. However, from v. 36 to the end of the chapter, the king known as the willful king mentioned here does not fit what is known of the king of the north. This fact has led some historians to suggest that the Book of Daniel may have been written by an editor just prior to the death of Antiochus Epiphanes. According to this theory, the author of the Book of Daniel recorded a history from vs. 1-35 accounting for the accuracy of this portion of the text. Then from v. 36 to the end of the chapter, the editor of the book attempted to accurately predict the fate of Antiochus Epiphanes and, as expected, failed.

However, this theory that the Book of Daniel recorded history up to v. 35 and then tried to accurately predict the immediate future is a theory that is completely untenable. Up to this point in this commentary we have shown how accurately Daniel predicted many things concerning the future as far as the first century A.D. However, even if all this evidence were ignored, this secular theory is completely invalidated by v. 37.

Daniel’s description of the willful king in v. 37 indicates that he will not regard any god. If the editor of Daniel intended to predict that the willful king was Antiochus Epiphanes, why would he make such an egregious error regarding Antiochus’ religious beliefs? One might assume that perhaps the editor of Daniel did not know Antiochus Epiphanes religious affiliation? However, this would be impossible since Antiochus Epiphanes tried to compel the Jews to worship Zeus which was one of the major causes of the Maccabean Wars. If the author of Daniel intended to predict the future after having accurately recorded the past, why would he include an inaccurate description of Antiochus Epiphanes’ most well-known attribute from the perspective a second century Jewish perspective?
Essentially every adult living in Israel in the second century B.C. would have known that Antiochus Epiphanies was strongly devoted to Zeus. They would have all known this because Antiochus Epiphanies forced this belief on the Jews which was one of the primary causes of Israel’s war with Greece!
How could someone who knew without making a single historical error the obscure historical details concerning the foreign relations between the Seleucids and the Ptolemies fail to know arguably the most well-known attribute of the Seleucid king who was currently at war with his people especially when it was the unavoidably obvious trigger of the “current” war with Greece?1

Thus the Book of Daniel could not have been written in the second century B.C. during the Maccabean Wars. And the willful king cannot be Antiochus Epiphanies. If the willful king is not Antiochus Epiphanies, then who was he? In v. 35 the prophet writes
:

35 Some of the wise will stumble, so that they may be refined, purified and made spotless until the time of the end, for it will still come at the appointed time.
 
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Douggg

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I'm a big fan of this talk on the subject of Daniel's prophecy, Antiochus, and the future Antichrist. I pray it helps.

Hi Noscentia, I watched the video except for the Q&A session at the end. There was a lot of good information presented. I disagree with the speaker though about Antiochus IV being in Daniel 8 though.

What you will find by 100% of the commentators (at least the ones I have watched over 50 years), especially the ones with a PhD label, is that they call the person the Antichrist in the universal sense over the course of his time.

It is a big error. Just as calling the President of the United States - Senator so-n-so if he had been a senator in the past, for example. The role of President and Senator are completely different. Although one person could have certainly been Senator then later President.

Being the Antichrist is only for while the person is in the role of being the King of Israel - anointed so by the false prophet. At other times, the person is not the Antichrist, but the King of the Roman Empire of the end times - in the role of the little horn, and later, as the beast.

Being the Antichrist is for about 3 years, sandwiched between being the little horn (selected leader of Europe) and later, as the beast (dictator leader of Europe)
 
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Douggg

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The promise of the New Covenant is found in the Book of Jeremiah, and Daniel was reading from the Book of Jeremiah when the angel Gabriel appeared.
But you are claiming Gabriel mentioned the "New Covenant" in Daniel 9, which Gabriel did not. There are elements of the New Covenant, but the New Covenant itself was never mentioned. The Messiah cutoff is never said to be resurrected in Daniel 9.

The covenant in Daniel 9:27 that gets confirmed for 7 years is the Mt. Sinai covenant, by the person who becomes the Antichrist.

I have shown that the 7 years are in Revelation 12, according to Satan being cast down as the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth - having only a time, times, half time left.

And before that forthcoming war in the second heaven , Revelation 12:7-9, is the 1260 days of the two witnesses in Revelation 12:6.

So the seven years are in Revelation 12. 1260 days + the war in the second heaven time + the time, times, half time = the 7 years.
 
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Douggg

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Thus the Book of Daniel could not have been written in the second century B.C. during the Maccabean Wars. And the willful king cannot be Antiochus Epiphanies.
I would say to watch the video Noscentia posted in post #31 of why Antiochus cannot be the willful king.
 
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BABerean2

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But you are claiming Gabriel mentioned the "New Covenant" in Daniel 9, which Gabriel did not. There are elements of the New Covenant, but the New Covenant itself was never mentioned. The Messiah cutoff is never said to be resurrected in Daniel 9.

The covenant in Daniel 9:27 that gets confirmed for 7 years is the Mt. Sinai covenant, by the person who becomes the Antichrist.

I have shown that the 7 years are in Revelation 12, according to Satan being cast down as the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth - having only a time, times, half time left.

And before that forthcoming war in the second heaven , Revelation 12:7-9, is the 1260 days of the two witnesses in Revelation 12:6.

So the seven years are in Revelation 12. 1260 days + the war in the second heaven time + the time, times, half time = the 7 years.


Are you denying that the Messiah revealed in Daniel chapter 9 would be the one to fulfill the covenant with the many in the verse below?


Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


Can you show anything in Daniel 9 which is a reference to the Mount Sinai Covenant, besides what you are claiming in verse 27?

.
 
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Douggg

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LittleLambofJesus

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Unless the second Jewish temple is still standing, Christ was a partial-preterist in the Olivet Discourse.
Olivet Timing Revealed by Luke’s Gospel:Compare Luke's Gospel to that of Matthew if you want to understand the timing.


Luk 21:24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
 
(Almost all Bible scholars agree that the first part of the verse above is about 70 AD. At the end of the verse we find a period of time known as “the ti
es of the Gentiles”. In the verses that follow we find the future Second Coming of Christ.)
That verse in Luke 21:24 is unique and follows Matt 24:19.

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:19 "woe to those pregnant and nursing in those days"


Matthew 24:19
Woe yet to those pregnant,
and to those giving suck in those the days
Luke 21:
23
Woe yet to those pregnant,
and to those giving suck in those the days
for there shall be great distress on the land and wrath on this people;
How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers. For there will be great distress upon the land and wrath against this people.
24 They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations. And Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
Revelation 11:1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary of the God and the Altar and those worshiping in it
2 and the Court/fold<833> without of the Sanctuary, be Casting-Out!<1544> out-side, and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the Nations and they shall be trampling<3961> the holy City forty two months.
25 There will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among the nations, bewildered by the roaring of the sea and the surging of the waves.…

Matthew 24:29 Yet immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be being darkened<4654>, and the moon not shall be giving the beam<5338> of her and the stars shall be falling from the heaven,
and the powers<1411> of the heavens shall be being shaken<4531>

Luke 21:
25 And shall be signs in sun, and moon, and stars,
26 men fainting of heart from fear<5401> and apprehensiveness<4329> of the coming to the those dwelling upon the land <3625>.
For the powers of the heavens shall be being shaken.
==========================
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see:
Rapture refuted

It is also mentioned in the 70AD book of Revelation..........

Please visit my 70AD Luke 21 Revelation thread...............

Captivity and sword Luke 21:24 Revelation 13:10
 
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