Does 1 Cor 15:50-58 speak of the rapture or not?

ewq1938 · Oct 18, 2019

The rapture is not mentioned but what is mentioned happens at the same timeframe of the rapture.

"and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."

This happens just before these former mortals who now are immortal are lifted up into the clouds of the Earth where mortals would have suffocated.

P92 said:
Is there any mention of an "harpazo" or "catching up" in the below? If not, why do so many believe that it references the rapture, or a rapture?

1 Cor 15:

"50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

55 “O Death, where is your sting?
O Hades, where is your victory?”

56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord."

Douggg · Oct 19, 2019

P92 said:
Is there anything in the text of 1 Cor 15:50-58 that necessarily involves the rapture (catching up) of believers?

Yes, because the living are changed as well.

ewq1938 · Oct 19, 2019

Douggg said:
Yes, because the living are changed as well.

Yes but the passage does not speak of the actual moving of those same people up to the clouds. The rapture is about bodily moving people upwards into the atmosphere of the Earth.

Douggg · Oct 19, 2019

ewq1938 said:
Yes but the passage does not speak of the actual moving of those same people up to the clouds. The rapture is about bodily moving people upwards into the atmosphere of the Earth.

The rapture is a mystery.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

ewq1938 · Oct 19, 2019

Douggg said:
The rapture is a mystery.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

The mystery is about people not dying, but being changed into immortals. The rapture is not mentioned in that passage.

Douggg · Oct 19, 2019

ewq1938 said:
The mystery is about people not dying, but being changed into immortals. The rapture is not mentioned in that passage.

This is where in 1Thessalonians4:13, Paul is writing about the rapture/resurrection inferring that it is a mystery.

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

Both 1Thessalonians and 1Corinthians are letters from Paul.

The dead shall be resurrected in 1Corinthians15:51-52. In that chapter, where are their souls, to be reunited with their resurrected bodies?

It doesn't say. Just like it doesn't say rapture in the passage.

It does says in 1Thessalonians4:13-14. It doesn't say changed into incorruptible bodies in those verses however. It is implied - and goes together with the 1Corinthians15 passages, by content which we should ascertain by reading Paul's letters.

The souls in 1Corinthians15:51 come with Jesus in 1Thessalonians4:14.

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
____________________________________________________
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
____________________________________________________

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Paul doesn't say what type of bodies in hte 1Thessalonians4 letter, not that he hadn't preached that to the Thessalonians during his time with them, but it wasn't included in his letter. In 1Corinthians15, Paul talks about the bodies in his letter. It is the same event in both 1Thessalonians4:13-18 and 1Corinthians15:50-58 letters , to take place before the Day of the Lord begins.

Douggg · Oct 19, 2019

ewq1938 said:
The mystery is about people not dying, but being changed into immortals. The rapture is not mentioned in that passage.

The term "immortality" is in the KJV, 6 times.

IMMORTAL IN THE BIBLE

The only time "immortal" is used it is applies to Jesus, as God. In 1Timothy 1:17.

I don't think it is a good idea nor appropriate about persons given eternal everlasting heavenly bodies to call them as immortals - because it somewhat implies God-hood - which there is only one God. We are not changed into "immortals", although our bodies will be everlasting as a gift from God and can continue to do so only by the Integrity of God, by which and Whom all things exist. We should never ever forget that.

So I would say to you - to drop the "immortals" term.

keras · Oct 19, 2019

ewq1938 said:
The rapture is not mentioned but what is mentioned happens at the same timeframe of the rapture.

"and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."

This happens just before these former mortals who now are immortal are lifted up into the clouds of the Earth where mortals would have suffocated.

Paul's prophecy in 1 Cor 15:50-56 is entirely about what happens after the Millennium; at the GWT Judgment.

Douggg said:
The rapture is a mystery.

That is because a 'rapture to heaven' is purely a construct of the imagination.
Nowhere does the Bible say we go to live in heaven. God eventually comes to live with us on earth. Revelation 21:1-7

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 19, 2019

ewq1938 said: ↑
The rapture is not mentioned but what is mentioned happens at the same timeframe of the rapture.
"and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."
This happens just before these former mortals who now are immortal are lifted up into the clouds of the Earth where mortals would have suffocated.

keras said:
Paul's prophecy in 1 Cor 15:50-56 is entirely about what happens after the Millennium; at the GWT Judgment.

Douggg said: ↑
The rapture is a mystery.

keras said:
Paul's prophecy in 1 Cor 15:50-56 is entirely about what happens after the Millennium; at the GWT Judgment.
That is because a 'rapture to heaven' is purely a construct of the imagination.
Nowhere does the Bible say we go to live in heaven. God eventually comes to live with us on earth. Revelation 21:1-7

At least not until the 2 witnesses get raptured to heaven first........

Ezekiel 37:
10 And I prophecy as He instructed and the spirit/breath is coming in them and they are living and are standing on their feet, a great army/host, great, exceedingly-exceedingly.
11 And He is saying to me "Son of Adam! these bones are whole house of Yisra'el, they behold! ones saying ' bones of us dry, our hope perishes, we are severed to ourselves'. [Luke 2:34/ Revelation 11:11]

Acts 1:8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Revelation 11:
11 And after the three days and half days, a breath of life out of the God entered in them and they stand<2476> upon their feet and great fear falls upon the ones observing them.
12 And they hear a great Voice out of the Heaven saying to them "ascend ye here!"
And they ascended into the heaven in the cloud....

Revelation 20:5
The rest of the dead not live until should be being finished<5055> the thousand years
This is the first Resurrection/standing-up<386<2476>
========================
Is the Rapture showing in Revelation?

Yes
12 vote(s)
52.2%
No
7 vote(s)
30.4%
Maybe
2 vote(s)
8.7%
*
I don't know
2 vote(s)
8.7%
Doesn't matter
0 vote(s)
0.0%
other
0 vote(s)
0.0%

Douggg · Oct 19, 2019

keras said:
Paul's prophecy in 1 Cor 15:50-56 is entirely about what happens after the Millennium; at the GWT Judgment.

That is because a 'rapture to heaven' is purely a construct of the imagination.
Nowhere does the Bible say we go to live in heaven. God eventually comes to live with us on earth. Revelation 21:1-7

Revelation 21:1-7 takes place on the new earth.

When this present heaven and earth are destroyed, before the Great White Throne judgement - where are you going to be?

ewq1938 · Oct 19, 2019

Douggg said:
T
So I would say to you - to drop the "immortals" term.

1Co_15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Immortal is the correct term to use for what occurs to these formerly mortal beings.

ewq1938 · Oct 19, 2019

Douggg said:
This is where in 1Thessalonians4:13, Paul is writing about the rapture/resurrection inferring that it is a mystery.

The verse addresses the resurrection only. The rapture is not part of it.

Douggg · Oct 19, 2019

ewq1938 said:
1Co_15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Immortal is the correct term to use for what occurs to these formerly mortal beings.

No one is truly immortal but God. It is not the correct term to use - for former mortal created beings.

Douggg · Oct 19, 2019

ewq1938 said:
The verse addresses the resurrection only. The rapture is not part of it.

1Thessalonians4:13 infers the resurrection to be a mystery and in the remaining verses includes the changing of the them who are alive at the time.

ewq1938 · Oct 19, 2019

Douggg said:
No one is truly immortal but God.

God says he makes people immortal so your statement isn't true.

ewq1938 · Oct 19, 2019

Douggg said:
1Thessalonians4:13 infers the resurrection to be a mystery and in the remaining verses includes the changing of the them who are alive at the time.

Yep and as I have been saying, the rapture or moving people up to the clouds is not mentioned in that particular passage. It happens at that timeframe but still isn't mentioned.

Douggg · Oct 19, 2019

ewq1938 said:
God says he makes people immortal so your statement isn't true.

No-one is immortal except God. An immortal cannot be destroyed. God can destroy anyone into non-existence.

keras · Oct 19, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
At least not until the 2 witnesses get raptured to heaven first........

Yes; the 2 Witnesses are taken to heaven.
Then, to think this means a general 'rapture' follows, is an impossible stretch of the imagination and is nowhere to be found in the Bible.

Douggg said:
Revelation 21:1-7 takes place on the new earth.

When this present heaven and earth are destroyed, before the Great White Throne judgement - where are you going to be?

On the REnewed earth.

Never is it said that the present earth will be destroyed before the GWT.
The Sixth Seal event will destroy out modern infrastructure and kill millions, also the Great Tribulation will cause some devastation and deaths.
For the final 3 1/2 years, I will be where the prophets say the Lord's faithful people will be; in the holy Land or; I hope, in the place of safety somewhere on earth.

ewq1938 · Oct 19, 2019

Douggg said:
No-one is immortal except God. An immortal cannot be destroyed. God can destroy anyone into non-existence.

Yet God says he will make give immortality to people thus making them immortal. I can only conclude that you are in the wrong on this.

1Co_15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co_15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Being immortal means that you can't die. If God killed them then he would be a liar and that just is a wrong direction to think upon so once a mortal puts on immortality, they will never die and God will not kill them.

Douggg · Oct 19, 2019

ewq1938 said:
Yet God says he will make give immortality to people thus making them immortal. I can only conclude that you are in the wrong on this.

1Co_15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co_15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Being immortal means that you can't die. If God killed them then he would be a liar and that just is a wrong direction to think upon so once a mortal puts on immortality, they will never die and God will not kill them.

The bible does not call anyone as being "an immortal" except in referring to Jesus as being God. It illustrate the point, is it right to call a person who is Godly, such as a Godly man or Godly woman, to call that person God?

Do you think that Adam and Eve would have died if they never ate from the forbidden tree? No-one is beyond destruction but God.

Does 1 Cor 15:50-58 speak of the rapture or not?

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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I love you three.

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Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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