The Qualifications For Everlasting Punishment
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That won't unkill any of your family members you've hatched-ed.
Being forgiven your sin's doesn't mean you forget what you've done.
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He is going to forgive....what again?
Are you explaining that after God forgives their wickedness that those acts will be erased from God's memory as if they never happened?
No. It is saying that the events will not be re-counted as evil after they are forgiven. But that doesn't mean they never happened or that you and God are pleased that they did.
"not remember their sins" means they will not be re-counted against you.
Like when your spouse forgives you....but brings it up again later.
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"Everlasting punishment" is when you sin (we are, we do) and you are never forgiven for it.
The opposite of that is accepting God's forgiveness.
"Everlasting punishment" is not being roasted on a spit, though it may feel like that to you. See, in hell there is no beer to drown your sorrows.
And you've chosen not to be forgiven, so you are up to your eyeballs
in a sea of your own unforgiven sins, which become obvious without beer.
By "beer" I mean anything that may have distracted you when you had a body.
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That's so funny. (and so true)
I think your post is a good description of the type of punishment. Left to stew in your own juice until you fall on your knees and declare Jesus is Lord. (free will act)
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Though it may not be accurate. I've read that references to hell are "active" in the original language. Meaning that Hell is not in the future tense. It is what the people who refuse forgiveness are in now.
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That's interesting. Perhaps an immediate consequence of the original sin. We are born into a fallen world. (hellish) When we come to Christ we cross over from death (hell) to life (heaven). Transformed from the state of fallen condemnation to the abundant life in the here and now. In this world, but not of it.
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Thanks for asking, I gladly reply
Below are samples from folks from different denominations of the translation by Hort and Westcott
Last item listed is an extensive presentation on them.
Westcott & Hort: Translator's Beliefs
THEIR BELIEFS
Westcott and Hort believed the Greek text which underlies the KJV was perverse and corrupt. Hort called the Textus Receptus “vile and villainous” (Life and Letters of Fenton John Anthony Hort, Volume I, page 211). Since Westcott and Hort are the fathers of modern textual criticism and the restorers of the true text, we need to know something of their beliefs to see if they are consistent with Holy Scripture.
The King James Bible translation is based on the Greek text found in the Textus Receptus. The new Bible versions are not based on Erasmus' Textus Receptus. They are based on the Greek New Testament compiled by a couple of heretick infidel blasphemers named Westcott and Hort (you will see this when you read their own words below).
" Hort to Lightfoot in 1860: "If you make a decided conviction of the absolute infallibility of the N. T., I fear I could not join you, even if you were willing to forget your fears about the origin of the Gospels."
Did not believe in the supernatural creation - Hort to Westcott in 1860: "... Have you read Darwin?
www.rrb3.com/bibles/engbibl/westcott_hort_only.htm
Westcott and Hort constantly praised theological liberals, socialists and other radicals like Coleridge and Darwin.
213 - Battle Of The Bibles - Amazing Discoveries TV
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Of course hell-fire is active here, scripture confirms it in many verses. Why did Paul turn people over to Satan here? One time it was so they would learn not to blaspheme. And the second time it was so that their spirit might be saved.
1TI 1:20 among them Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.
1CO 5:5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Hmmm nothing about eternal torture in either case. Only temporal judgments for redemptive purposes Hmmm.
Sounds like Satan's created purpose in the plan of God deals with any area of our life that we give him authority to slice and dice. And of course Satan still must get his marching orders and the limits as to what he can do from God....just as he did in the case of Job. Hmmmm. If only 'the nominal church' understood the MINISTRY of Satan, scriptures might take on a new light.
MAT 4:1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted (TESTED) by the devil.
1PE 4:12 Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal which comes upon you to prove you, as though something strange were happening to you.
Yes, even the PATTERN son of God, who is our forerunner, had to show us how it all works.
Satan even demanded Peter before he was born again and had the power of the spirit of Christ in him. Therefore it took the prayer of THE CHRIST 'for Peter' to get him through that battle to endure the sifting and come out converted and equipped to minister on the day of Pentecost. Nothing prayed by Jesus to KEEP Peter from 'the sifting', only a prayer they he come through tribulation and the squeezing of the "narrow gate" that leads to LIFE AND LIFE ABUNDANTLY.
LUK 22:31 "Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat, 32 but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned again, strengthen your brethren."
I can only imagine what Judas might have done IF ONLY JESUS HAD PRAYED for him as He did Peter. Oh yes, the ways of God are above our ways. And the ways of the ETERNAL HELLERS aren't even on the map that God is following.
for them and for us.
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Wow. That post is a REAL eye-opener. Thanks!Of course hell-fire is active here, scripture confirms it in many verses. Why did Paul turn people over to Satan here? One time it was so they would learn not to blaspheme. And the second time it was so that their spirit might be saved.
1TI 1:20 among them Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.
1CO 5:5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Hmmm nothing about eternal torture in either case. Only temporal judgments for redemptive purposes Hmmm.
If only 'the nominal church' understood the MINISTRY of Satan, scriptures might take on a new light.
MAT 4:1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted (TESTED) by the devil.
1PE 4:12 Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal which comes upon you to prove you, as though something strange were happening to you.
Yes, even the PATTERN son of God, who is our forerunner, had to show us how it all works.
Satan even demanded Peter before he was born again and had the power of the spirit of Christ in him. Therefore it took the prayer of THE CHRIST to get him through that battle to endure the sifting and come out converted and equipped to minister on the day of Pentecost.
LUK 22:31 "Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat, 32 but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned again, strengthen your brethren."
I can only imagine what Judas might have done IF ONLY JESUS HAD PRAYED for him as He did Peter. Oh yes, the ways of God are above our ways. And the ways of the ETERNAL HELLERS aren't even on the map that God is following.
The ministry of Satan. That was news to me. But there it is. Wow.
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I have serious issues with the stance that differences in the NIV translation mean that things were "left out" of the Bible. Especially when the standard of comparison is the King James translation.
The NIV was a brand new translation. It was based on the original texts not on the KJV. There were thousands of manuscripts available (including the Dead Sea Scrolls) at the time that the NIV was translated. Compared to what was available in the seventeenth century. Here's an example below. Compare to the KJV to see the difference. Pay special attention to the headnote and footnote.
Mark 16:9-20 New International Version (NIV)
[The earliest manuscripts and some other ancient witnesses do not have verses 9–20.]
9 When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons. 10 She went and told those who had been with him and who were mourning and weeping. 11 When they heard that Jesus was alive and that she had seen him, they did not believe it.
12 Afterward Jesus appeared in a different form to two of them while they were walking in the country. 13 These returned and reported it to the rest; but they did not believe them either.
14 Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen.
15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”
19 After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God. 20 Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.
Footnotes:
Mark 16:8 Some manuscripts have the following ending between verses 8 and 9, and one manuscript has it after verse 8 (omitting verses 9-20): Then they quickly reported all these instructions to those around Peter. After this, Jesus himself also sent out through them from east to west the sacred and imperishable proclamation of eternal salvation. Amen.
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Oh yes, Satan was a created being, made by our omniscient God. He never was the cause of the nominal belief system thinking that, God had to come up with a Plan B after the Garden. Nay, it is he that forges us in the furnace of affliction and tribulation.
ISA 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.
That's why "death and Hell" are of no longer of any use and are cast into our 'God who is a consuming fire'....yea the very "lake of fire" in the book of Revelation. For when the "sinful flesh" has been killed with death either crucified by us here and now in life destorying the last enemy to put on immortality, OR by expiration and the grave/Hades. For it is then that the purpose of Hell and its fire has been fulfilled, there is no reason for the tools of the devil to ever exist. Only the lake of fire need finish the purgative process that God's plan FOR ALL may be brought to pass.
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THE PURPOSE OF EVIL.
"I CREATE EVILS I, THE LORD."
There is probably no subject in all the range of religious thought so hard to deal with as that of the purpose of evil. Writers on Biblical lore have tried to account for the origin, of evil; but it seems to me that the real difficulty is the bare fact of its existence, whatever may have been its origin. The great question for theologians to wrestle with is this,-How can you account for the existence of evil alongside of a supreme all-wise, holy and benevolent God? Think for a moment of the condition of things in this world. Evil exists on the earth, to embitter and darken, to blight and curse everything else that exists on the earth. On it goes like a huge Juggernaut car, rolling through the world, crushing its helpless victims on every hand, and (the saddest feature of it all) crushing without distinction the innocent and guilty together in one common quagmire of sin, suffering and death; and God allows it to go on, when he might at any instant stop it; an on it has gone for 6000 years.
Continued>>>>
The Spirit of the Word - The Purpose of Evil
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The Master clearly enunciates in Chapter 25 of Matthew what are the 5 reasons for aionios zoe & aionios kolasis. Our wee minds cannot expand into His, but the Master of Reconciliation has spoken.
With that in mind, perhaps we can consider what justice is from Father's viewpoint and the purpose for punishment by a calibre father.
Justice by George MacDonald>>>>
Unspoken Sermons by George MacDonald: Justice
Unto You, O Lord, belongs mercy; for You render to every man according to his work.--Ps. 62:12
Some of the translators make it kindness and goodness; but I presume there is no real difference among them as to the character of the word which here, in the English Bible, is translated mercy.
The religious mind, however, educated upon the theories yet prevailing in the so-called religious world, must here recognize a departure from the presentation to which they have been accustomed: to make the psalm speak according to prevalent theoretic modes, the verse would have to be changed thus:--
'To You, O Lord, belongs justice, for You render to every man according to his work.'
Let the reason of my choosing this passage, so remarkable in itself, for a motto to the sermon which follows, remain for the present doubtful. I need hardly say that I mean to found no logical argument upon it.
Let us endeavour to see plainly what we mean when we use the word justice, and whether we mean what we ought to mean when we use it--especially with reference to God. Let us come nearer to knowing what we ought to understand by justice, that is, the justice of God; for his justice is the live, active justice, giving existence to the idea of justice in our minds and hearts. Because he is just, we are capable of knowing justice; it is because he is just, that we have the idea of justice so deeply imbedded in us.
With that in mind, perhaps we can consider what justice is from Father's viewpoint and the purpose for punishment by a calibre father.
Justice by George MacDonald>>>>
Unspoken Sermons by George MacDonald: Justice
Unto You, O Lord, belongs mercy; for You render to every man according to his work.--Ps. 62:12
Some of the translators make it kindness and goodness; but I presume there is no real difference among them as to the character of the word which here, in the English Bible, is translated mercy.
The religious mind, however, educated upon the theories yet prevailing in the so-called religious world, must here recognize a departure from the presentation to which they have been accustomed: to make the psalm speak according to prevalent theoretic modes, the verse would have to be changed thus:--
'To You, O Lord, belongs justice, for You render to every man according to his work.'
Let the reason of my choosing this passage, so remarkable in itself, for a motto to the sermon which follows, remain for the present doubtful. I need hardly say that I mean to found no logical argument upon it.
Let us endeavour to see plainly what we mean when we use the word justice, and whether we mean what we ought to mean when we use it--especially with reference to God. Let us come nearer to knowing what we ought to understand by justice, that is, the justice of God; for his justice is the live, active justice, giving existence to the idea of justice in our minds and hearts. Because he is just, we are capable of knowing justice; it is because he is just, that we have the idea of justice so deeply imbedded in us.
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