What day is the sabath what day does the bible say?

Soyeong said:

God's Law is His instructions for how to do what is godly

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Paul said the Law is like a master disciplining children, enforcing rules, making them obey with threats and punishments. But grace works differently and the Spirit of God is not a spirit of fear nor of enforced obedience but of freedom. The Law cannot make you holy. It didn't make Israel holy. It failed. It was given in part to fail so that no one would boast of their obedience as proof of their worthiness before God. So avoid the Law as proof of personal holiness it isn't what makes a person godly.

Psalms 111:10 (KJV)
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

Isaiah 56:5 (KJV)
Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

Kaon said:

The Redeemer never broke the Sabbath

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Jesus knew the relative values of the commandments of the Law. He knew mercy was greater than Sabbath obedience. So Jesus showed mercy even if it meant that the religious teachers of his day condemned him for Sabbath breaking.

packermann said:

Yes, we should concern ourselves with what is internal. So why are Catholics condemned by some Protestant on the external of Catholicism such as graven images, praying the Rosary, praying to Mary, etc? I, as a Catholic, would never condemn someone for not participating in these externals. The Catholic Church has never taught that it is a sin to do these externals. They are mere aides to bring us closer to Christ. If you choose not to use these aide then that is OK. You have not sinned if you do not choose to do them. But many Protestants accuse us of sinning for doing these externals. It matters not whether our relationship with Christ is personal, written on our hearts.

Would you agree that others should not judge us Catholics for the externals of Catholicism?

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Jesus told the Samarian woman that true believers will worship God in spirit and in truth. My view of this is that when a person is genuinely converted, they have the Holy Spirit residing in them. Jesus said that when a person is filled with the Spirit, they have both the Father and Son in their hearts along with the Holy Spirit.

We cannot have closer fellowship with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit than that. Therefore my view is that I don't need externals to assist my worship or bring me closer to Christ than I actually am.

If I, as the Scripture says, am seated with Christ at the right hand of God, and blessed with every spiritual blessing in heavenly places, then why would I need an outward ceremony, ritual, icon, priest, or statue to bring me closer than I already am?

GingerBeer said:

Jesus knew the relative values of the commandments of the Law. He knew mercy was greater than Sabbath obedience. So Jesus showed mercy even if it meant that the religious teachers of his day condemned him for Sabbath breaking.

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He did not disobey or break the Sabbath. If He did then He is not worthy to be revered as the Redeemer of all of us - since He would be a sinner just like all of us (falling short of the Law of God).

He cannot break a Law of God because the Law of God is the Word of God, and the Word of God is a Living entity (known as "Christ") - a house divided does not stand, and the Word of God is not going to renege on the Word of God.

Soyeong said:

Jesus set a perfect example for us to follow of how to live in obedience to the Mosaic Law

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But Jesus healed on the Sabbath, preached on the Sabbath, commanded others to 'work' on the Sabbath, happily observed his own disciples satisfy their hunger by harvesting and threshing on the Sabbath. Sabbatarians know of these examples but do not take them to heart so they make Sabbath keeping a Law for their followers. Jesus didn't do that. He didn't command his followers to keep the Sabbath.

The Sabbath for Christians is Jesus. He is their rest. They rest from works of obedience to the law. They don't run amok breaking every commandment but neither do they measure their godliness by keeping the Law as if it could do them any good whatever.

charsan said:

If I may. Yes the Bible is an idol to many evangelicals who take it as the highest authority and worship their Bible thinking everything must be in there

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I think almost everything we need is in there, or at least everything we need to know to connect to Jesus and God and the Holy Spirit is in there anyway...

But it might be a matter of the heart...? How could we tell if something like the Bible was an idol to someone or not...?

And, again, it's not a graven image though, but there are many other things that are not graven images that we say are idols to some people, many people, etc...

If it takes the place of God or His Spirit, then it could be considered an idol maybe, but how can the Word of God take the place of the Word of God, or God the Word the Word of God, etc...?

And we know the Spirit does not ever conflict with, or ever contradict the Word of God either, or also...? Also God's Spirit does not ever replace God's Word ever also, or as well, also, etc...

Also, if God is His Word, and His Word is Him, how could we ever be replacing God with the Word of God...?

Also, I think it is mostly peoples "own private interpretations", or "self" that they worship a lot of the time, instead of keeping their own "ego" out of it, etc...?

And that can happen sometimes with the Word of God, etc...

Which is really a worship of "self" etc... That they become their own idol due to their own interpretations of the Bible, etc...

God Bless!

Kaon said:

If He did then He is not worthy to be revered as the Redeemer

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That is where your theology goes astray. Jesus is worthy because he is God not because he kept the Law. He knew no sin because he did what is good and is Goodness himself. Not because he kept ordinances and made sacrifices.

Neogaia777 said:

How could we tell if something like the Bible was an idol to someone or not...?

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Easy. By seeing how people place an over emphasis on the Bible

Kaon said:

He did not disobey or break the Sabbath. If He did then He is not worthy to be revered as the Redeemer of all of us - since He would be a sinner just like all of us (falling short of the Law of God).

He cannot break a Law of God because the Law of God is the Word of God, and the Word of God is a Living entity (known as "Christ") - a house divided does not stand, and the Word of God is not going to renege on the Word of God.

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Christ proved He was not disobeying or breaking the Sabbath, by keeping the Spirit of it over the literal letter of it...

Which He tried to show and explain to them, but to no avail a lot of the time...

We are to have days or periods of rest, and we are to worship on that day, congregate with other believers who are also doing so on that day, or those days, etc...

Which specific days they are or is, is pretty meaningless to God, and Jesus was trying to show them that...

At least one day a week is preferred, but is for our sake's, and not God's... and it was made for man, and not man for it, as well...

God Bless!

charsan said:

Easy. By seeing how people place an over emphasis on the Bible

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How do you define "over emphasis", because certainly it is important, right...?
Maybe even should be revered, correct...? But maybe not worshiped maybe...? Or the Bible or written Word itself being worshiped as a "thing", etc..." but my point is where do we draw the line and how would we tell...?

And again, how can the Word of God replace the Word of God, or God the Word...?

God Bless!

GingerBeer said:

That is where your theology goes astray. Jesus is worthy because he is God not because he kept the Law. He knew no sin because he did what is good and is Goodness himself. Not because he kept ordinances and made sacrifices.

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Even He prayed to His Father, who is the Most High God, and emphasized that we do the Most High God's will. What is the will of the Most High God? To be upright/obedience to His statutes, and love Him with all of your heart. The two aren't exclusive; you need to love Him to follow the Law, and you follow the Law because you love Him.

If you are suggesting someone broke the Law of God, then you are saying they sinned - that was the invalidating implication of the leaders accusing the Redeemer. He either sinned by breaking the Sabbath (and therefore is not Perfect), or He did not sin, and is who He says He is.

In the beginning there was The Word. And, the Word was with [the Most High] God, and the Word was God. Nothing that was came to be without Him. You do not get this Authority by breaking the very simple 600 laws of the Most High God. You do not get the authority to open the Book of Life by reneging on your duties as a Redeemer of a sinful people.

packermann said:

The command to keep the commandments is in the Ten Commandments. Within this same Ten Commandments, there is the commandment not to make a "graven image". And yet we Catholics are condemned by many Protestants for having graven images. Why is one commandment not important and another is?

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Since Jesus is the perfect image (icon) of God it seems that God himself made an image of himself for men and women to bow before in reverent worship. Jesus' very existence as a man breaks the commandment to those who cannot see who he is and what the commandments are for.

A wise person understands that the commandments were like a fence to keep the people of God together in a society that was centred on hearing God, obeying God, and living holy lives. Within the bounds of the commandments Israel was kept apart from the nations who worshipped many gods. Within the bounds set by the Law Israel was a 'peculiar people' whose role was to serve God, bear witness to God, and keep the oracles of God until Messiah arrived. Once Jesus arrived the Law was fulfilled; its purpose was completed, Israel was no longer a nation kept apart by descent from Abraham by natural generation it became a holy nation born of water and the Spirit. No longer a child, so to speak, under the Law as master but a people in Christ and made alive by the Spirit. Not servants in God's house but sons and daughters of God who have authority over the house. Sabbatarians teach the Law and seek to be fenced in by obedience to the Law and to serve the Law as master. That is the core error in Sabbatarianism.

Neogaia777 said:

How do you define "over emphasis", because certainly it is important, right...?
Maybe even should be revered, correct...? But maybe not worshiped maybe...? Or the Bible or written Word itself being worshiped as a "thing", etc..." but my point is where do we draw the line and how would we tell...?

And again, how can the Word of God replace the Word of God, or God the Word...?

God Bless!

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The Bible replaces Christ for many. The Bible is the story of Salvation, the Church is the pillar of Truth but evangelicals only want the Bible not the Church so they can do things their own way as evidence by GT and this thread, making Christianity in their own image.

Kaon said:

a house divided does not stand

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Jesus spoke those words of Satan and Satan's kingdom.

God is not bound to obey the Law, he is the law giver and changes the law as he pleases. That is how it went with Noah, Abraham, Moses, and when Jesus arrived the Law came to its end. Paul spoke of it in 2Corinthians 3.

(II Corinthians 3:1-18)
[1] Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, as some do, letters of recommendation to you, or from you? [2] You yourselves are our letter of recommendation, written on our hearts, to be known and read by all. [3] And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

[4] Such is the confidence that we have through Christ toward God. [5] Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God, [6] who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

[7] Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, [8] will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory? [9] For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory. [10] Indeed, in this case, what once had glory has come to have no glory at all, because of the glory that surpasses it. [11] For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.

[12] Since we have such a hope, we are very bold, [13] not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze at the outcome of what was being brought to an end. [14] But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away. [15] Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts. [16] But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. [17] Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. [18] And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.

charsan said:

The Bible replaces Christ for many.

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Well not for me, although I hold it in very high esteem...

Also God says He is the Word of God, and that the Word or Words of God are Him, Which we get and have from God's Word or the Bible, etc...

But I will admit some people maybe can turn it into an idol, especially with too much of their own self or own ego involved most especially...

God Bless!

Kaon said:

What is the will of the Most High God?

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That is easy to know. Jesus said "(John 17:3) And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent." Eternal life is not obeying the Law of Moses. It is not keeping Sabbath. It is knowing God and Jesus Christ. It is being born of water and the Spirit. It is becoming a son or daughter of God. Not a law keeper.

Neogaia777 said:

Also God says He is the Word of God, and that the Word or Words of God are Him, Which we get and have from God's Word or the Bible, etc...

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No the Word of God is Christ and the words of God (Bible) are not God, that would be an idol. There does not need to be a graven image to be an idol

charsan said:

The Bible is the story of Salvation

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Amen. The bible is not salvation nor the saviour nor the way the truth and the life; all those things are Jesus Christ himself. He is salvation and the saviour and the way the truth and the life.

But the bible is visible, an idol for some, something that they can hold, read, and recite and for them that is what they want out of their religion. A physical thing to hold on to and use to build walls and feel safe behind.

pdong jfksdl;a'/

Neogaia777 said:

The Spirit of a law is different than the letter of it, and we are to worship Him, and obey Him, "in Spirit and in truth" under the NC...

And "from the heart", and all else is actually disobedience, etc...

And that's what you/the "letter of the law" people are not seeing...

That you have actually apostatized and fallen away...

It's so sad...

God Bless!

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Poof, there goes the reality