What function does the Holy Spirit have in the hearts of believers?
- Thread starter Carl Emerson
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Many times we fail to understand what we see. I used to think adrenalyn was the move of the Holy Spirit until I understood the person and work of the Holy Spirit.
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Francis Drake
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Succinct.
Its not easy cultivating a relationship with a road map!
Even if you train yourself to remember every last detail of the map, it still doesn't tell you which route to take.
I much prefer my relationship with the cartographer.
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Francis Drake
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A straight question Dave, have you ever somehow sensed the presence of the Holy Spirit on you or around you, or in a gathering somewhere?
If so, how do you identify it?
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So when Jesus said to the disciples, "He will guide you into all truth", our Bible translators should have capitalized the word 'truth' so as to read "He will guide you into all Truth", that being Christ himself? Therefore the verse is not referring to guidance into doctrinal truth, not even guidance in everyday life decisions as many people here seem to think, but rather guiding people to Christ himself?
Why would Jesus use such confusing language? Where does the word 'all' fit in? Guiding people "into all truth" doesn't make sense if 'truth' is Christ. If he was referring to himself why wouldn't he have simply said, "He will guide you to Me"?
Sorry, but I don't buy that theory.
The word 'truth' is frequently associated with scripture and doctrinal truth. Out of dozens of examples here is just a small selection:
Mark 12:14 "but teach the way of God in truth"
John 8:32 "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
John 8:40 "you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God;"
John 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth.
Rom 2:20 "having in the Law the embodiment of knowledge and of the truth,"
Gal 2:5 "so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you."
Gal 5:7 "You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth?"
Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation
Col 1:5 "you previously heard in the word of truth, the gospel which has come to you,"
2 Tim 2:15 "rightly dividing the word of truth. "
Heb 10:26 "For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins"
Ps 86:11 "Teach me Your way, O Lord; I will walk in Your truth;"
Ps 119:142 "Your law is truth."
Ps 119:151 "And all Your commandments are truth."
John 8:32 "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
John 8:40 "you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God;"
John 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth.
Rom 2:20 "having in the Law the embodiment of knowledge and of the truth,"
Gal 2:5 "so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you."
Gal 5:7 "You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth?"
Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation
Col 1:5 "you previously heard in the word of truth, the gospel which has come to you,"
2 Tim 2:15 "rightly dividing the word of truth. "
Heb 10:26 "For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins"
Ps 86:11 "Teach me Your way, O Lord; I will walk in Your truth;"
Ps 119:142 "Your law is truth."
Ps 119:151 "And all Your commandments are truth."
And if we "rightly divide the word of truth", and examine the verse in context we can see that Jesus is exclusively addressing the disciples and explaining what will happen to them at Pentecost and the role of the coming Spirit in their lives as apostles. They would be guided into all truth as they taught and wrote scripture.
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- Dec 18, 2017
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Maybe what Angus said went over your head...
Truth is a Spirit...
John 14:
16 “I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17 that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.
Jesus was speaking about Himself...
Truth is a Spirit...
John 14:
16 “I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17 that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.
Jesus was speaking about Himself...
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His was not just promised to the Apostles...
Here John addresses believers in general.
1 John 2:
26 These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you. 27 As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.
Here John addresses believers in general.
1 John 2:
26 These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you. 27 As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.
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Carl, please explain what you mean by God's 'nudges'. Do you mean gut feelings, thoughts, ideas popping into your head etc? It seems some people believe that God speaks to them by beaming thoughts into their minds which they then declare as "God told me...". Yet where is this taught in scripture? If this was a major method by which the Holy Spirit speaks to us the bible would be filled with exhortations to listen to our thoughts and feelings. Yet what we find is the exact opposite:
"My thoughts are not your thoughts" (Isa 55:8)
"Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool" (Prov.28:26)
"The heart is deceitful above all things" (Jer 17:9)
"Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool" (Prov.28:26)
"The heart is deceitful above all things" (Jer 17:9)
The idea that God speaks to us telepathically via our thoughts and feelings is not only unbiblical but it is a highly dangerous teaching. People say that when God "speaks" to them it is virtually indistinguishable from their own imagination. (IMO that is because it IS their own imagination). Yet they make life changing decisions thinking it is God's will when it is most likely nothing more than their own carnal thinking. The bible says such people are fools. Not only that but the practice is wide open to manipulation Eg. "God told me you are to be my wife", "God told me my brother-in-law should be awarded the contract for the church roof", etc.
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It is not easy to communicate on that level when you examine everything through your theological lense and dismiss anything that smells like anyone hearing from God.
If I thought you were genuinely interested and open, we could dialogue on this. Presently you present as someone on a mission to take any such thoughts captive to your doctrine.
Maybe read my testimonial link here:
Jesus's Ministry
Then ask questions if you are genuinely interested.
If I thought you were genuinely interested and open, we could dialogue on this. Presently you present as someone on a mission to take any such thoughts captive to your doctrine.
Maybe read my testimonial link here:
Jesus's Ministry
Then ask questions if you are genuinely interested.
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Don't take the verse out of context. The "anointing" that "abides in you" is not referring to thoughts and feelings - there is absolutely no indication of that. Rather it is referring to the same thing that "abides in you" two verses earlier: "If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, " v24. ie God's word.
This is confirmed by the end of the passage you quoted, "just as it has taught you,". It cannot refer to God personally speaking as John says that "it has taught you". Whatever taught them was not a person. John would not use the neuter pronoun is he was referring personally to God or his Spirit.
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The problem with the sort of doctrinal truth you are describing is that when we "rightly divide the word of truth" we all to often end up dividing the Church.
Whereas when we listen to the one who is the Truth, demonstrated by His Love for each one of us the unity of the body is preserved in Love, irrespective of the ideas that people have.
Look at the story of the Samaritan for example. The doctrinaly correct ones would not even cross the street to help the man in distress. But the Samaritan, who was an offence to all good Jews, was the one who did the work of God.
This is Truth that the Spirit of Christ leads us into.
The Spirit guides us into all truth, and eventuall doctrinal accuracy through His Love and compassion for all men.
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Sorry, I don't agree with that at all. Rightly dividing the word of truth is the CURE for division, not the cause of it! Christians are divided precisely because they have conflicting doctrines caused by differing interpretations of scripture. They both can't be right. One of the groups has interpreted scripture wrongly. Most the various arguments that plague the church - charismatic vs cessationist, calvinism vs arminianism, saturday vs sunday sabbath, protestant vs catholic, young earth vs old earth, inerrancy vs inspiration, etc could be resolved, at least among those willing to listen, by careful study of scripture using the basic principles of biblical interpretation. Unfortunately, many die-hard advocates for their pet doctrines will not change their minds even when presented with the truth.
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Who believes that it is His will we walk in the unique purpose we are created for ?
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And who really cares? If the people are display the fruit of the Spirit towards one another, true doctrinal thinking will eventually be inevitable, and if I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
So when 2 people or groups of people, who disagree on doctrine(which is inevitable in theological and doctrinal thought, where there are 2 Jews there are 3 opinions), and fail to up hold the Unity of Faith in Love, they split apart and so divide the Church. The fault here is the tendency to uphold truth about abstract doctrine as being more important than the unity of the body of Christ.
My suggestion is that the Spirit would prioritize the Truth of Love and Unity over strict doctrinal truth and innerency. The Spirit would have us Love one another, laying down our lives for one another well before any abstract doctrinal concept was taught.
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You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life d because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you. Romans 8
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It is an interesting thought. I am clinically deaf, have been much of my life. A few years ago I decided to get some hearing aids and found that the noise of this world is appalling and very hard to tolerate.
I don't think the Spirit is as silent as many think, rather they are deaf and perhaps prefer it that way.
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