THE TRUE "REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY/SUPERSESSIONISM" OF THE BIBLE

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BABerean2

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When did Jesus stop the sacrifices and burnt offerings to end? Not their efficacy which is not described but their physical event from stopping which is written (unless of course God said one thing normally but meant another thing secretly) He had to do this on 30 AD according to you and your preachers!

What does the Bible say?


Heb_9:26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.


Heb 10:16 "THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR HEARTS, AND IN THEIR MINDS I WILL WRITE THEM,"
Heb 10:17 then He adds, "THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
(Quoted from the New Covenant promise in Jeremiah 31:31-34.)
Heb 10:18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.

.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Did the Jews make reconciliation for iniquity?
Did the Jews bring in everlasting righteousness?
Did the Jews seal up the vision and prophecy?
What makes you think that it is the Jews who anoint the most Holy?
What about Daniel 12 and Luke 21 being fulfilled? Luke 21 follows Daniel and Revelation like frosting on a cake.....

Daniel 12:1 and Luke 21 same event?

Daniel 12:1
“At that time<6256> Michael, the great prince/chief<8269>standing over sons of that people
And becomes a time<6256> of distress<6869> which not occurred from to become<1961> of a nation until that time<6256
and in that time, thy people escape<4422>, everyone being found being written in scroll.

Luke 21:23

“But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
For shall be being<2701/1510> great distress/necessity<G318> upon the land and wrath<3709> to this people.
36 “Yet be being vigilant/watching in every season, beseeching that ye should be being strong to be escaping<1628> all these, the being about to be becoming, and to stand before the Son of the Man.
==================================

Preterism, A Commentary of Daniel 12:12: There were also EXACTLY 1,335 Days from the 9th of Av of A.D. 70 when the Roman Army worshiped Idols of Zeus, Rome and Caesar on the Eastern Gate of the Temple until the First Day of Peace at the End of the Jewish War on the 16th of Nisan in A.D. 74.

On the 9th of Av of A.D. 70, the Roman army broke into the Temple, set it on fire then set up the ensigns on the eastern gate of the Temple and worshipped them in an abominable ceremony that mimics Ezekiel 46:1-12. One month after the destruction of the temple, Jerusalem fell; and the war seemed to be over. The Jewish resistance appeared to be crushed and the province of Judea was relatively quiet with just a few small scattered confrontations. The last pocket of Jewish rebels held out at Herod’s mountain fortress of Masada. Determined to put an end to the rebellion, Flavius Silva, the Roman procurator, gathered an army and headed for Masada.


The Fortress of Masada. There were also EXACTLY 1,335 days from the destruction of the Temple until the first day of peace after the fall of Masada at the end of the Jewish War on the 16th of Nisan in A.D. 74.

On Passover, the 15th of Nisan, of A.D. 74, on what may be the anniversary of Jesus’ crucifixion, the fortress of Masada fell. With the Roman army about to break through the fortified walls, the Jewish rebels lost all hope. That Passover, the 15th of Nisan, the 960 Jewish rebels at Masada committed mass suicide.20 And on that day the war had finally ended. The next day, the 16th of Nisan, was the first official day of peace. The 16th of Nisan of A.D. 74 is exactly 1335 days after the ninth day of Av in A.D. 70 when the Roman army broke into the temple, set it on fire and worshiped the ensigns on the eastern gate.21 “How blessed [indeed] is he who keeps waiting and attains to the [second] 1,335 days!”22
===============================
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see:
Rapture refuted

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover ; and it is deserving of the very particular attention of the reader, that this was the anniversary of that memorable period in which the Jews crucified their Messiah ! At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival. How suitable and how kind, then, was the prophetic admonition of our LORD, and how clearly he into futurity when he said "Let not them that are in the countries enter into Jerusalem." Luke xxi. 21.
============================
Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @ PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterist Eschatology and Preterism
CAST OF CHARACTERS: Roman: Emperor Nero | General Vespasian | General Titus | The Roman Army || Jewish: General / Historian Josephus | Factional Leaders in Jerusalem || Administrators of Roman Judea Targets: Jerusalem | Herod's Temple // Maps of the Roman Invasion // Theological Timeline

CHRONOLOGY IMMEDIATELY SURROUNDING THE WAR

Stage 1: Murder of James the Just, "Opposition High Priest" ; Irrevocable Split: 62
Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66
Stage 3: The Campaign of Cestius Gallus and the Defeat of the Twelfth Legion: October-November 66
Stage 4: End of Collaborative Government, Priesthood ; General Flight: November 66 - March 67
Part 6: Vespasian Subdues Northern and Western Palestine: December 66 - December 68
Part 7: Three-way Power Struggle within Jerusalem After Roman Retreat: January 68 - May 70
Part 8: Romans Breach City Walls and Leave Jerusalem Desolate: May 10 - September 10, 70


 
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Had the Reformers believed antichrist to be the antichrist of dispensational futurism, there would have been no Reformers and no Reformation, and you and I would not be having this dialogue on this forum today.


That is not necessarily true. The Papacy still would have been called "Babylon" and a vessel of Satan. The evil and heresies of the Papacy still would have been called out all the same, just as other heresies had been called out and confronted in those centuries before the Papal apostasy.

Many Dispensationalists today presently believe that the figurative Babylon in Revelation chapter 17 is the Vatican and the Catholic Church.


The man of sin was a collection of men, as the man of God is a collection of men (2 Timothy 3:17).

There's nothing more literal than burning at the stake.


The cited passage does not call the man of God a collection of men. But just as God has His Church, so Satan has a counterfeit and just as God has His Messiah, so Satan also has his counterfeit messiah who is called the Anti-Christ.

There is also nothing more literal than beheading as well, which will be the primary means of execution of those who remain loyal to Christ and refuse to worship the forthcoming Anti-Christ. (Rev. 20:4) The primary means of execution by the Papal empire was burning at the stake.
 
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First let me say I agree that the blood of Jesus is the basis of the New Covenant and His death is a partial fulfilment of the New covenant.


What remains of the New Covenant that is yet to be fulfilled that was not fulfilled on the cross and by the resurrection of our Lord? What has yet to happen is for the Jews to finally embrace the New Covenant. God has done His part through Christ to establish the New Covenant. Our part is to receive it by receiving Christ.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Many Dispensationalists today presently believe that the figurative Babylon in Revelation chapter 17 is the Vatican and the Catholic Churc
.
Since you brought it up, what is your Biblical view of that great City in Revelation 18?

Is Jerusalem 70 ad the great City in Revelation?
  1. *
    Yes
    6 vote(s)
    24.0%
  2. No
    13 vote(s)
    52.0%
  3. Maybe
    1 vote(s)
    4.0%
  4. Never thought about it that way
    0 vote(s)
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  5. I don't know, but am willing to learn
    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Why does it matter?
    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Other [please explaine]
    4 vote(s)
    16.0%
  8. It is Rome
    1 vote(s)
    4.0%
 
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jgr

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That is not necessarily true. The Papacy still would have been called "Babylon" and a vessel of Satan. The evil and heresies of the Papacy still would have been called out all the same, just as other heresies had been called out and confronted in those centuries before the Papal apostasy.

Many Dispensationalists today presently believe that the figurative Babylon in Revelation chapter 17 is the Vatican and the Catholic Church.

It took immeasurably more than "calling out" to achieve what the Reformation achieved.

It took vast quantities of blood and death.

"The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the Church". Tertullian, 197 AD

As did innumerable saints before them, the Reformers lived and died that reality.

The cited passage does not call the man of God a collection of men.

So there's only one man of God?

Any idea who it is?
 
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Since you brought it up, what is your Biblical view of that great City in Revelation 18?

Is Jerusalem 70 ad the great City in Revelation?
  1. *
    Yes
    6 vote(s)
    24.0%
  2. No
    13 vote(s)
    52.0%
  3. Maybe
    1 vote(s)
    4.0%
  4. Never thought about it that way
    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. I don't know, but am willing to learn
    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Why does it matter?
    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Other [please explaine]
    4 vote(s)
    16.0%
  8. It is Rome
    1 vote(s)
    4.0%


I will be sure to visit that thread to give my input in greater detail, but since you did ask me here, Babylon is presented as both a figurative (Revelation 17) and a literal place (Revelation 18), but Jerusalem is never called Babylon in scripture and is not destined to everlasting destruction like Babylon is.
 
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It took immeasurably more than "calling out" to achieve what the Reformation achieved.

It took vast quantities of blood and death.

"The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the Church". Tertullian, 197 AD

As did innumerable saints before them, the Reformers lived and died that reality.


No one is disputing that in and of itself.


So there's only one man of God?

Any idea who it is?



The man of God is in reference to any follower of Christ in an individualistic sense in our own personal relationship with Christ. In a collective sense, we are called the Church, the body of Christ, and, for a number of reasons, we have even been called the Bride of Christ, though it is the New Jerusalem who is officially called the Bride.
 
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jgr

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The man of God is in reference to any follower of Christ in an individualistic sense in our own personal relationship with Christ. In a collective sense, we are called the Church, the body of Christ, and, for a number of reasons, we have even been called the Bride of Christ, though it is the New Jerusalem who is officially called the Bride.

444 [e]
anthrōpos
ἄνθρωπος ,
man
N-NMS

K. Wuest, "There are two words in Greek which mean 'man,' anēr, which refers to a male individual of the human race, and anthrōpos, which is the racial, generic term, and which has the general idea of 'mankind' " (3, Great Truths to Live By, 46).]
 
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444 [e]
anthrōpos
ἄνθρωπος ,
man
N-NMS

K. Wuest, "There are two words in Greek which mean 'man,' anēr, which refers to a male individual of the human race, and anthrōpos, which is the racial, generic term, and which has the general idea of 'mankind' " (3, Great Truths to Live By, 46).]


And when Paul was referencing the individual believer, this included any female followers of Christ as well as males and Anthropos would have been used to include both genders.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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444 [e]
anthrōpos ἄνθρωπος , man N-NMS
"There are two words in Greek which mean 'man,' anēr, which refers to a male individual of the human race, and anthrōpos, which is the racial, generic term, and which has the general idea of 'mankind' " (3, Great Truths to Live By, 46).]
Interesting.
When I was translating Ezekiel some years back I looked at the Hebrew word used for man and saw it was actually the word "adam" and that is how I render it. It seems to also symbolize "mankind".
There are also other words for "man"..........

Ezekiel 1:26 And above to expanse which over their head, as appearance stone of sapphire likeness of throne, and on likeness of the throne, likeness as appearance of 'adam upon it from to upward.
Ezekiel 2:1 And He is saying to me "son of 'adam! stand! on thy feet and I shall speak with thee.

120 'adam from 119;
ruddy i.e. a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.):--X another, + hypocrite, + common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person.
H120 אָדָם ('adam) occurs 552 times in 527 verses

582 'enowsh en-oshe' from 605;
properly, a mortal (and thus differing from the more dignified 120); hence, a man in general (singly or collectively):-
H582 אֱנוֹשׁ (j'enlève) occurs 564 times in 530 verses

376 'iysh eesh contracted for 582 (or perhaps rather from an unused root meaning to be extant);
a man as an individual or a male person; often
H376 אִישׁ ('iysh) occurs 1,639 times in 1,432 verses
=================================
Fairly good Hebrew study site........

The Ancient Hebrew Research Center
shalom.png
 
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jgr

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And when Paul was referencing the individual believer, this included any female followers of Christ as well as males and Anthropos would have been used to include both genders.

Sure.

But Paul is not referencing the individual believer, but all believers, as is the meaning of anthropos.
 
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Then Paul should have used anēr.


Only Paul was not referring just to men, but also to women as well, but in an individualistic context instead of a collective so as to put emphasis on the perfecting of the individual (the person) rather than the collective (the Church) because the perfecting of the individual leads to the perfecting of the collective which is comprised of individuals.
 
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jgr

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Only Paul was not referring just to men, but also to women as well, but in an individualistic context instead of a collective so as to put emphasis on the perfecting of the individual (the person) rather than the collective (the Church) because the perfecting of the individual leads to the perfecting of the collective which is comprised of individuals.

Then Paul should have used both words.
 
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nolidad

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Did the Jews make reconciliation for iniquity?
Did the Jews bring in everlasting righteousness?
Did the Jews seal up the vision and prophecy?

What makes you think that it is the Jews who anoint the most Holy?

Yes they made reconciliation by slaughtering the true passover Lamb!
They will bring in everlasting righteousness when they call upon Jesus to return.
Dan. 12 God instructs Daniel to seal the vision and book!

Now explain why the most holy hear refers to Jesus when the usual and almost unanimous usage of the term refers to the holyof holies which must be anointed!
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Contenders Edge said:
The man of God is in reference to any follower of Christ in an individualistic sense in our own personal relationship with Christ. In a collective sense, we are called the Church, the body of Christ, and, for a number of reasons, we have even been called the Bride of Christ, though it is the New Jerusalem who is officially called the Bride.
jgr said:
444 [e]
anthrōpos ἄνθρωπος , man N-NMS
"There are two words in Greek which mean 'man,' anēr, which refers to a male individual of the human race, and anthrōpos, which is the racial, generic term, and which has the general idea of 'mankind' " (3, Great Truths to Live By, 46).]
Contenders Edge said:
But in an individualistic context.
Then Paul should have used anēr.
Greek G435 and Hebrew H376...........

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

435. aner an'-ayr a primary word (compare 444); a man (properly as an individual male):--fellow, husband, man, sir.
H435: ἀνήρ
ἀνήρ, ἀνδρός, ὁ,
a man, Latin vir.
The meanings of this word in the N. T. differ in no respect from classic usage; for it is employed
1. with a reference to sex, and so to distinguish a man from a woman; either
a. as a male: Acts 8:12; Acts 17:12; 1 Timothy 2:12; or
b. as a husband: Matthew 1:16; Mark 10:2; John 4:16ff; Romans 7:2ff; 1 Corinthians 7:2ff; Galatians 4:27; 1 Timothy 3:2, 12; Titus 1:6, etc.; a betrothed or future husband: Matthew 1:19; Revelation 21:2, etc.
2. with a reference to age, and to distinguish an adult man from a boy: Matthew 14:21; Matthew 15:38 (where ἄνδρες, γυναῖκες and παιδία are discriminated): with the added notion also of intelligence and virtue: 1 Corinthians 13:11 (opposed to νήπιος); Ephesians 4:13; James 3:2 (in the last two passages τέλειος ἀνήρ).
3. universally, any male person, a man; so where τίς might have been used: Luke 8:41; Luke 9:38; Acts 6:11; Acts 10:5, etc. where ἀνήρ and τὶς are united: Luke 8:27; Acts 5:1; Acts 10:1. or ἀνήρ and ὅς he who, etc.: Romans 4:8; James 1:12. where mention is made of something usually done by men, not by women: Luke 22:63; Acts 5:36. where angels or other heavenly beings are said to have borne the forms of men: Luke 9:30; Luke 24:4; Acts 10:30. where it is so connected with an adjective as to give the adjective the force of a substantive: ἀνὴρ ἁμαρτωλός a sinner, Luke 5:8; λεπροὶ ἄνδρες, Luke 17:12; or is joined to appellatives: ἀνὴρ φονεύς, Acts 3:14; ἀν. προφήτης, Luke 24:19 (נָבִיא אִישׁ, Judges 6:8; [cf. Winers Grammar, 30; § 59, 1; Buttmann, 82 (72); other references under the word ἄνθρωπος, 4 a. at the end]) or to gentile names: ἄνδρες Νινευῖται, Matthew 12:41; ἀνὴρ Ἰουδαῖος, Acts 22:3; ἀνὴρ Αἰθίοψ, Acts 8:27; ἄνδ. Κύπριοι, Acts 11:20; especially in addresses of honor and respect [Winers Grammar, § 65, 5 d.; Buttmann, 82 (72)], Acts 1:11; Acts 2:14; Acts 13:16; Acts 17:22, etc.; even ἄνδρες ἀδελφοί, Acts 1:16; [Acts 2:29, 37; Acts 7:2]; Acts 13:26 [Acts 13:15], etc.
4. when persons of either sex are included, but named after the more important: Matthew 14:35; Acts 4:4; [Meyer seems inclined (see his commentary on Acts, the passage cited) to dispute even these examples; but others would refer several other instances (especially Luke 11:31; James 1:20) to the same entry].
======================================================"
The equivalent Hebrew word appears to be:

376 'iysh eesh contracted for 582 (or perhaps rather from an unused root meaning to be extant); a man as an individual or a male person; often H376 אִישׁ ('iysh) occurs 1,639 times in 1,432 verses
אִישׁ ʼîysh, eesh; contracted for H582 (or perhaps rather from an unused root meaning to be extant); a man as an individual or a male person; often used as an adjunct to a more definite term (and in such cases frequently not expressed in translation):—also, another, any (man), a certain, champion, consent, each, every (one), fellow, (foot-, husband-) man, (good-, great, mighty) man, he, high (degree), him (that is), husband, man(-kind), none, one, people, person, steward, what (man) soever, whoso(-ever), worthy. Compare H802.
=======================
Scripture4All - Greek/Hebrew interlinear Bible software
Hebrew/Greek Interlinear.......

1st time used in OT:

Gen 2:23
and the adam<120> saith, 'This is the proper step! bone of my bone, and flesh of my flesh!' for this she is called Woman<802>, for from man<376> hath this been taken;
===============
Then Paul should have used both words.
both words used in this verse of Zech 8:23 concerning 10 men [of the 10 tribes of Israel?] following Jesus. Some have interpreted this as 10 men following any Jew.......

Churches view on Zech 8:23
LLoJ Feb 6, 2007


Zechariah 8:23 Thus says Yahweh of Hosts: "in those days which they shall-take-firm-hold a-hem/wing, Ten Men/Mortals/582 'enowsh, from-all Tongues-of the-Nations.
Yea, and-They-take-fast/hold in-hem-of a Man/0376 'iysh, a-Judean/Jew/Y@huwdiy to-say of 'We-are-going with-Thee, that We-hear Elohim with-Thee'". [Mark 6:56]

582 'enowsh en-oshe' from 605;
properly, a mortal (and thus differing from the more dignified 120); hence, a man in general (singly or collectively):-
H582 אֱנוֹשׁ (j'enlève) occurs 564 times in 530 verses
============================
Last 2 verses in OT

Malachi 3:
16 Then they are spoken to, ones fearing Yahweh, man<376> with associate of him, and Yahweh is attending and is hearing.
And is being written a scroll of memorial/remembrance before Him, those fearing Yahweh and to those meditating on His Name.
17 “And they become to Me ,” says Yahweh of hosts,
for day which I making/doing a special/peculiar possession and I spare them, as a man<376> spares his own son who serves him.”
=======================
Fairly good Hebrew study site........

The Ancient Hebrew Research Center
shalom.png
 
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nolidad

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He was also anointed by at least one of His own people.

Mar 14:6 But Jesus said, "Let her alone. Why do you trouble her? She has done a good work for Me.
Mar 14:7 For you have the poor with you always, and whenever you wish you may do them good; but Me you do not have always.
Mar 14:8 She has done what she could. She has come beforehand to anoint My body for burial.
Mar 14:9 Assuredly, I say to you, wherever this gospel is preached in the whole world, what this woman has done will also be told as a memorial to her."

.

Now you are grasping at straws! Every dead body was anointed for burial! Besides you still need to show why "the most holy" of Daniel which was readily understood to mean the holy of holies in that one instance meant Jesus! And if it is- it is the anointing Jesus yet needs to receive. To be anointed as King of Israel!
 
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What does the Bible say?


Heb_9:26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.


Heb 10:16 "THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR HEARTS, AND IN THEIR MINDS I WILL WRITE THEM,"
Heb 10:17 then He adds, "THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
(Quoted from the New Covenant promise in Jeremiah 31:31-34.)
Heb 10:18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.

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Now you are comparing apples and oranges!

Daniel was talking about the ending of the physical system of sacrifices and oblations. You are arguing the efficacy of the sacrifices!

I agree with you 100% that the sacrifice of Jesus ended the efficacy of the OT sacrificial system. It did not however end the system itself!
 
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