A question about Heaven

Funky Slippers · Oct 18, 2019

Emmylouwho said:
Does everyone who winds up in Heaven get the same reward? Let's say a Christian who truly believes, but hasn't managed to help lead another soul to Christ. Would their reward be the same as one who led thousands of souls to Christ?

This is an interesting question: Lets address the "winds up" in Heaven, one just doesnt wind up in Heaven, Heaven is striven for here on earth by doing the will of the Father as you have been led to do.
James 1:12
Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.

Matthew 7:22-23 New King James Version (NKJV)
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Blade · Oct 18, 2019

"What could be better than just being there in the first place?" Amen.. I know how you meant it. So where ever He is... thats home for me. He went to make us a home/place... do angels have a place? For all the people that "SAY" they seen heaven.. I've never heard this one.

But same reward? I think some might be? Well following Him..things like that but.. no not all the same. Some...well just being there will be a reward so to speak all the work some had was burned up yet..still saved. Who knows.

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 18, 2019

RaymondG said:
Jesus left the joys of Heaven to be surrounded by Lost souls..... And we are to be like Him. There is great joy in trying to help those that are lost..... less joy in the desiring to be separated from those we deem not as holy as we are.

There is a time for everything.

Every day, do as the Father in heaven directs. Always. Don't worry about who is holy and who is not - that won't help .....

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 18, 2019

Funky Slippers said:
This is an interesting question: Lets address the "winds up" in Heaven, one just doesnt wind up in Heaven, Heaven is striven for here on earth by doing the will of the Father as you have been led to do.

"striven" / "strive"

Luke 21:36
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Study Bible
The Narrow Door
…23“Lord,” someone asked Him, “will only a few people be saved?” Jesus answered, 24

“Make every effort to enter* through the narrow door.

For many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able.

25After the master of the house gets up and shuts the door, you will stand outside knocking and saying, ‘Lord, open the door for us.’ But he will reply, ‘I do not know where you are from.’…
Berean Study Bible · Download

*
Weymouth New Testament
"Strain every nerve to force your way in through the narrow gate," He answered; "for multitudes, I tell you, will endeavour to find a way in and will not succeed.

jamesbond007 · Oct 18, 2019

Emmylouwho said:
Does everyone who winds up in Heaven get the same reward? Let's say a Christian who truly believes, but hasn't managed to help lead another soul to Christ. Would their reward be the same as one who led thousands of souls to Christ?

Instead of thinking of things like that, it's best to do your best and the rewards will take care of itself. It's enough reward just being with God again in his kingdom, power, and glory forever where we were predestined.

Bro. Dave Gardner · Oct 18, 2019

joshua 1 9 said:
Natural means the body made up of the dust from this world: "The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven." This is why Solomon tells us: "the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it." (Ecc12:7) Moses tells us we: "return to the ground--because out of it were you taken. For dust you are, and to dust you shall return." (Genesis3:19)David tells us: "when You take away their breath, they die and return to dust." (Psalm104:29)

How does this constitute an authoritative conclusion on what the word "natural" means within the text in question?

joshua 1 9 said:
At the resurrection our Body will be resurrected. This is why there is a difference between the rapture and the resurrection.

Another difference is that the word "resurrection" is actually found in the Bible and the word "rapture" isn't. And what does this difference between two unrelated words (one of which is not anywhere in Scripture), again, have to do with the meaning of the two words contained in the text in question?
The words "natural" and "spiritual" in the original language actually have very similar meanings with "spiritual" pertaining more specifically to propriety of the Holy Spirit. In no way is the condition of non-physicality suggested unless, again, an affinity for influences of Hellenism is entertained. Nor is any sense of stark contrast implied.

Emmylouwho · Oct 18, 2019

jamesbond007 said:
Instead of thinking of things like that, it's best to do your best and the rewards will take care of itself. It's enough reward just being with God again in his kingdom, power, and glory forever where we were predestined.

That’s the way I look at it... I like it here on Earth. Just curious as to what might come after.

Bro. Dave Gardner · Oct 18, 2019

Hmmm! said:
Heaven is not a permanent residence for anyone.

Scripture, please?

Hmm · Oct 18, 2019

Bro. Dave Gardner said:
Scripture, please?

Hmm · Oct 18, 2019

Bro. Dave Gardner said:
Scripture, please?

Luke 23:39-43. though somehow I doubt that's going to help you.

joshua 1 9 · Oct 18, 2019

Bro. Dave Gardner said:
The words "natural" and "spiritual"

In Genesis chapter one on the fifth day we see the word Chay. (חיה) means "living" and is derived from the Hebrew word chai (חי), meaning "life". The word for "creature" is nephesh which is also translated living soul.

Genesis1:20 And God said, “Let the waters teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the sky.”

In Genesis chapter two we read about the breath of life: neshamah. This is also refereed to as the Spirit.

Genesis 2:7 "Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being."

The word for man and the word for ground are pretty much the same word: Adamah. The Spirit is the breath of life that God breathed into the man that HE made from the ground.

We have living creatures including man in Chapter one then in Chapter two God breathed the breath of life into the man and placed the man in the Garden of Eden.

So we have four Hebrew words here: Chay, Nephesh, Neshamah & Adamah. Of course all words have slight variations. For example we have right, righteous & righteousness. All a variation on the same word. The same in Hebrew where they will add a letter to a word. The letters have a symbolic meaning so we can define a word though a study of the letters that make up that word. As I already showed the word living has three letters and the word life has two letters.

The first letter is always the most important. In this case the first letter represents male and female energy. Over time male and female came to mean man and women. God made male and female then in the Garden of Eden He wanted them joined together to become one. This represents the desire of God to be one with His Creation.

joshua 1 9 · Oct 18, 2019

Bro. Dave Gardner said:
"resurrection" is actually found in the Bible and the word "rapture" isn't.

harpázō for "rapture" or "caught up" is used 14 times in the Bible. Have you heard of Bible hub? It is as if you are saying things without doing any research or study on the words you are talking about. Paul uses this word and also John in Rev 12:5:

"She gave birth to a son, a male child, who "will rule all the nations with an iron scepter." And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne."

I know two people that used the word: "rapture" in reference to their death when they were taken up to Heaven to be with Jesus. This is different from the resurrection when our body is raised from the ground.

friend of · Oct 18, 2019

Bro. Dave Gardner said:
Scripture, along with a little sanctified imagination, suggest utterly fantastic possibilities

Thank you for that Doug Bachelor sermon on heaven. Pretty great stuff

Sorn · Oct 18, 2019

A Realist said:
Forming a belief on what might be pleasing to imagine is known as wishful thinking. I've seen a lot of stuff in this thread that sure is pleasing to imagine.

So what if it is wishful thinking?? nothing in all the bible says its wrong!!
I'm sure that there were people in the middle ages who indulged in the 'wishful thinking' that people might one day travel through the air in some manner as they saw many creatures flying around them. Hmm, what fools they were!!!!
Turns out they weren't fools after all, because we can travel through the air today. They were just people with imagination, imagining things that might be one day. It just couldn't be done in their day.

Bro. Dave Gardner · Oct 18, 2019

joshua 1 9 said:
In Genesis chapter one on the fifth day we see the word Chay. (חיה) means "living" and is derived from the Hebrew word chai (חי), meaning "life". The word for "creature" is nephesh which is also translated living soul.

Genesis1:20 And God said, “Let the waters teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the sky.”

In Genesis chapter two we read about the breath of life: neshamah. This is also refereed to as the Spirit.

Genesis 2:7 "Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being."

The word for man and the word for ground are pretty much the same word: Adamah. The Spirit is the breath of life that God breathed into the man that HE made from the ground.

We have living creatures including man in Chapter one then in Chapter two God breathed the breath of life into the man and placed the man in the Garden of Eden.

So we have four Hebrew words here: Chay, Nephesh, Neshamah & Adamah. Of course all words have slight variations. For example we have right, righteous & righteousness. All a variation on the same word. The same in Hebrew where they will add a letter to a word. The letters have a symbolic meaning so we can define a word though a study of the letters that make up that word. As I already showed the word living has three letters and the word life has two letters.

The first letter is always the most important. In this case the first letter represents male and female energy. Over time male and female came to mean man and women. God made male and female then in the Garden of Eden He wanted them joined together to become one. This represents the desire of God to be one with His Creation.

Not clearing anything up for me at all. What does a quick-and-dirty lesson on Hebrew words from Genesis have to do with the juxtaposition of 2 Greek words?

I remain unconvinced that the words translated "natural" and "spiritual" in 1 Corinthians 15:44 in any way suggest physicality followed by the absence thereof. No amount of sophistry will avail my concession on this point. If the Great Apostle indeed meant to express "physical" and "non-physical" he picked the wrong Greek words to do so. This would amount to blasphemy on my part if I were not so certain about it.

Bro. Dave Gardner · Oct 18, 2019

joshua 1 9 said:
harpázō for "rapture" or "caught up" is used 14 times in the Bible. Have you heard of Bible hub? It is as if you are saying things without doing any research or study on the words you are talking about. Paul uses this word and also John in Rev 12:5

ἁρπάζω (harpazō) 'to seize ' (G0726)--to catch, steal, carry off
is actually used 17 times in NT Scripture, and only once is it used to describe the harvest of the faithful at Christ's 2nd coming.
And not one single time in all of the 29 English translations featured on Bible Hub, is it translated to the word "rapture" in any of its 17 usages. That's 493 opportunities to use the word "rapture" and not one taker. Neither does Thayer nor Strong define it as "rapture."

I actually did my research on the subject of the "rapture" 30 years ago when there was no Internet, but upon scouring your Bible hub (I actually do use it, along with StepBible and MySword for mobile) I was fortunate to find I've gathered negligible rust on it.

Rescued One · Oct 19, 2019

Dave-W said:
Not sure they make it to heaven at all.

A hypocrite isn't a Christian.

Rescued One · Oct 19, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Good timing - I just noted this/ copied from search/ a few minutes ago for something else, (or for God's Purpose here?)

Weymouth New Testament
"Strain every nerve to force your way in through the narrow gate," He answered; "for multitudes, I tell you, will endeavour to find a way in and will not succeed.

World English Bible
"Strive to enter in by the narrow door, for many, I tell you, will seek to enter in, and will not be able.

Young's Literal Translation
'Be striving to go in through the straight gate, because many, I say to you, will seek to go in, and shall not be able;

Jesus is the Way.

John 10:1
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

Sorn · Oct 19, 2019

Phoebe Ann said:
A hypocrite isn't a Christian.

Not so, a hypocrite can indeed be a Christian. Churches are full of hypocrites. Its the old battle between a spirit that is willing and a flesh that is weak.
People are going to fail and backslide etc. and do things they say they won't. Its human nature, the sin nature we live with and battle every day.
What matters is how do they change over time, what effort do they make to change their ways and what impact does their hypocrisy have on them and others. Are they themselves aware of it and do they make an effort to change not to mention repent?
Its not for us to judge if they are Christian or not though of course, at times, it is appropriate to act to confront the hypocrisy.

Rescued One · Oct 19, 2019

Sorn said:
Not so, a hypocrite can indeed be a Christian. Churches are full of hypocrites. Its the old battle between a spirit that is willing and a flesh that is weak.
People are going to fail and backslide etc. and do things they say they won't. Its human nature, the sin nature we live with and battle every day.
What matters is how do they change over time, what effort do they make to change their ways and what impact does their hypocrisy have on them and others. Are they themselves aware of it and do they make an effort to change not to mention repent?
Its not for us to judge if they are Christian or not though of course, at times, it is appropriate to act to confront the hypocrisy.

Christians love Christ and walk in the light. They ask for forgiveness, and keep following their Savior. Churches don't invite hypocrites to leave. If they are willing to hear the truth, God may convert them. The Holy Spirit convicts Christians.

hypocrite
1 : a person who pretends to have virtues or qualities that he or she does not have

2 : a person whose actions contradict their stated beliefs or feelings
Definition of hypocrite - Merriam-Webster's Student Dictionary

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

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