Phil W
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- Apr 15, 2019
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OK, but let's keep in mind that 2 Cor 5:17 says..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."A good place to stop with your post. You're just not facing reality.
So let's review your claim. You claim that believers have a new sinless nature, and have lost their sinful nature. And thus, do not sin any more.
I'm going to provide some verses that shreds your claim to pieces.
If it isn't possible, why does Paul instruct them to do it?Gal 5:13 - You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh ; rather, serve one another humbly in love.
Paul identifies his audience as saved believers at the beginning of the verse. Then he instructs them to NOT USE THEIR FREEDOM to indulge the flesh (sin). How is that possible is your view were correct? It just isn't possible.
Is he just wasting his "ink"?
It isn't possible...if you adhere to Paul's exhortation.v.16 - So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
Another verse you cannot explain from your view. If your claim were true, it wouldn't be possible to "gratify the desires of the flesh".
Walk in the Spirit and you won't sin!
Isn't that the truth?
If one is in the flesh, they won't do the things of the Spirit.v.17 - For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.
Very clearly, Paul lays out the struggle for EVERY BELIEVER. We STILL have the "flesh", which is our sinful nature. The Holy Spirit functions from our new nature and is in conflict with our flesh. Plain and simple.
If one is in the Spirit, they won't do the things of the fleshly minded.
You look at it from the flesh's perspective, but I see it from the Spirit's perspective.
The things you can't do are of the Spirit and the things I can't do are of the flesh...because I walk in the Spirit, as v 16 above admonished.
You are absolutely correct.Gal 6:1 - Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted.
This isn't evangelism. The "someone" here is a fellow believer and mature believers are instructed to restore that person gently. But in your claim, it would not be possible for a believer to be "caught in a sin" in the first place.
The one deemed "caught in sin" wasn't a believer.
Had he been a believer, he would have believed that God won't allow anyone to be tempted above what they can handle.
And God will provide an escape. (1 Cor 10:13)
Are you sure?v.3 - If anyone thinks they are something when they are not, they deceive themselves.
This verse directly applies to YOU.
I guess self-abasement is wasted on you.Eph 3:8 - Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ,
Paul's testimony proves that your claim is wrong. Your claim would make ALL believers equal, because they are sinless. But Paul says differently.
Do you have the revelations Paul received from face to face encounters with Christ?
NO?
Then I guess he is actually "more" than you, or I, for that matter.
He became a servant to every church he founded, not the leader.
As far as "equal", all those in Christ are equal.
John tells us..."Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous." (1 John 3:6-7)
"Is righteous, even as He is righteous"!
Unbelievers can't identify with that, but believers can...thanks be to God.
Can't you see that they are "necessary" for the unbelievers?Eph 4:1 - As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received.
Why would Paul urge any believer to "live a life worthy of their calling" if all believers don't sin anymore? You cannot answer that.
v.17 - So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking.
Why would Paul tell sinless believers to "no longer live as the Gentiles (unbelievers) do?
v.22 - You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires;
Why would any sinless believer need to "put of their old self"?? Hm?
v.25-31
Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to your neighbor, for we are all members of one body.
26 “In your anger do not sin” : Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry,
27 and do not give the devil a foothold.
28 Anyone who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with their own hands, that they may have something to share with those in need.
29 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.
30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
31 Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice.
None of these commands would be necessary if your claim were true.
in fact, such behavior would be IMPOSSIBLE if your claim were true.
You outright reject all the exhortations and teaching of Paul.
The message is for you, and for all men clinging to their old lives in the flesh.
After reading these admonishments, you have no excuse to keep sinning.
I guess you must have missed the part that say "God's wrath comes on the those who are DISOBEDIENT.Eph 5:3-4
3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people.
4 Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving.
Why would Paul need to tell sinless believers that there "must not be even a hint of immorality, impurity or greed"??
And why would Paul tell these sinless believers what else there shouldn't be among them?
You see, your claim has tremendous holes in it.
v.6 - Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient.
You have been deceived with empty words, such as "believers no longer sin". And notice the result of your deceit.
Isn't it those who continue to walk in, and war after, the flesh who are disobedient?
All believers must be careful how they live...but if they are careful how they live they will meet folks like you who will try to belittle and defame the obedient.v.11 - Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.
This is what I have been doing with you.
v.15 - Be very careful, then, how you live—not as unwise but as wise,
All believers MUST BE very careful how they live. How is that even relevant if ALL believers do not sin any more??
All believers adhere to the words of Christ and those of His apostles and prophets'
If your version of life in Christ were of God, there would be no admonishments, warnings, or exhortations.
Live any way you want...you already are guaranteed eternal life...live it up!
I wasn't "sinless" when I started reading the bible.v.17 - Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord’s will is.
How could Paul write this to sinless believers? He wouldn't have.
v.18 - Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit,
This is a command for believers. But totally unnecessary if believers do not sin.
Phil 1:27 - Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know that you stand firm in the one Spirit, striving together as one for the faith of the gospel
If your claim were true, then none of this would need to be said, because it would be automatic for these sinless believers.
There is NO NEED to ever tell a sinless person how to "conduct themselves" since they are conducting themselves perfectly (sinlessly).
So, you see, your claim is in error, unbiblical.
If you try to argue that these verses are directly to unsaved people, you will just prove how disconnected from truth you are.
I had not yet learned how to cast away the flesh and be united as one with Christ. How to be rid of the old man and his hideous nature, and how to be reborn of God's seed.
I have learned so much from my readings of Paul and other disciples of the Lord.
I thank God in the name of Jesus Christ for the writers of the NT.
Why do you think that those who have taken the exhortations to heart are the bad people?
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