Upvote
0
2 Thessalonians 1:7-10
- Thread starter mkgal1
- Start date
- Oct 8, 2019
- 239
- 82
- 71
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
I didn't read the other replies, just your post. But what is so difficult to understand about these scriptures. And
This scripture is about as clear as a scripture gets. It's about Armageddon, when Christ destroys the ungodly. The only time Christ is spoken of as being revealed from heaven with angels to destroy people in a flaming fire is at Armageddon. See 2nd Peter 3:10-13; Matthew 25:31; Matthew 13:4
Last edited:
Upvote
0
- Oct 8, 2019
- 239
- 82
- 71
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Christ is only spoken of in scripture as returning to Earth with angels to destroy sinners in a flame of fire during Armageddon. Read the following scriptures: 2 Peter 3:8-13 ; Matthew 25:31-34; Matthew 25:41; Matthew 13:40-42.
All of my posted verses speak of the same event that your Thessalonians scripture speaks of. Christ did not return to Earth when Jerusalem was destroyed, and he didn't destroy it. The Romans did. Therefore, your scripture couldn't be speaking of Jerusalem's destruction any more than the scriptures I posted.
Do those who refute you believe they are living in heaven or in the New World now? Because that's the aftermath of events in these scriptures, per the scriptures-See 2 Peter 3. So, do they think this is the New World Peter spoke of. And if they are in heaven, where's Christ?
All of my posted verses speak of the same event that your Thessalonians scripture speaks of. Christ did not return to Earth when Jerusalem was destroyed, and he didn't destroy it. The Romans did. Therefore, your scripture couldn't be speaking of Jerusalem's destruction any more than the scriptures I posted.
Do those who refute you believe they are living in heaven or in the New World now? Because that's the aftermath of events in these scriptures, per the scriptures-See 2 Peter 3. So, do they think this is the New World Peter spoke of. And if they are in heaven, where's Christ?
Last edited:
Upvote
0
- Aug 6, 2017
- 5,118
- 1,649
- 46
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
eternal destruction is a clear reference to Final Judgement at the 2C with fire from heaven in revelation 20:9
Upvote
0
- Aug 6, 2017
- 5,118
- 1,649
- 46
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
Roman destruction of Jerusalem is symbolized by the beast defeating Babylon at Armageddon (Rev 16-18)
afterwards, Church overcoming Roman empire is symbolized by the conquering figure defeating the beast (rev 19)
2C in fiery judgement = rev 20:9
Upvote
0
- Oct 8, 2019
- 239
- 82
- 71
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
It all comes down to when the New World is here, and when those who have access to heaven do. I know I will have access to heaven, because I've been shown that. Some other people have been shown that, including Bible writers John and Paul to name a couple. Christ said some will have access to heaven, and that was written down for the world to read.
Jerusalem's destruction in AD70 had absolutely nothing to do with anyone having access to the dimensions God lives in. It had absolutely nothing to do with Christ renewing the entire Earth. Therefore Jerusalem's destruction had nothing to do with the three reference scriptures I cited, or the Thessalonian scripture the fellow who started this thread posted. Because all those scriptures speak of the same event-read them. And the surrounding scriptures speak of a renewed Earth. Something that didn't happen after Jerusalem was destroyed.
We know about God because some people in past centuries and still today received revelations from God. I don't mean revelations from reading a book, I mean actual contact. If not for these revelations we would probably be following stories others made up about a creator, just like the world does in every other religion. I bring that up, because those who receive revelations from God are not interpreting scripture. They are shown things God wants them to see that are not subject to inaccurate interpretations. When people interpret scriptures their interpretations are subject to inaccuracies.
However, it should be clear to all there has been no revelation any of these people was given that shows right now the New World is here, and that some of us have access to the dimensions God lives in. All the scriptures I posted speak of a destruction that precedes that time. Thessalonians speaks of the same thing. Check out the scriptures I referenced, as this is an easy one to understand..
Last edited:
Upvote
0
keras
Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
- Feb 7, 2013
- 13,679
- 2,491
- 82
- Country
- New Zealand
- Faith
- Pentecostal
- Marital Status
- Married
The three plain descriptions about the Return of Jesus; Zechariah 14:3, Matthew 24:30 and Revelation 19:11-21 do not mention fire at all, He destroys the attacking armies by the Sword of His Word and the bodies are not burned; the birds feast on them.
You have inaccurately interpreted scripture and confuse the Lord's Day of fiery wrath, the Sixth Seal event, with the Return. Two different Days, years apart.
Upvote
0
Where there is smoke, there is fire.
Rev 19:2 For true and righteous are His judgments, because He has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication; and He has avenged on her the blood of His servants shed by her."
Rev 19:3 Again they said, "Alleluia! Her smoke rises up forever and ever!"
2Pe 3:6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water.
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
The letter to the Thessalonians is just that, a letter to the Thessalonians.
However, like all scripture it is good for teaching, instruction in righteousness, and admonition, in which all of God’s people can benefit.
The subject matter is about the coming of the Lord, and what will occur, to all of God’s faithful as well as to the unbelievers and wicked.
Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy,
To the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:
Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure, which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer;
2 Thessalonians 1:1-5
Paul, in writing to the Thessalonians, refers to some specific details about the Church at Thessalonica, as well as general knowledge that pertains to all the Church.
Specific to the Church in Thessalonica -
- To the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:
- We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure, which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer;
Written to the church at Thessalonica, but applies to all God’s people -
since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.
Therefore we also pray always for you that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness and the work of faith with power, that the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and you in Him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
When Jesus returns at His coming, dead in Christ will be resurrected, not just the Church at Thessalonica.
When Jesus Christ returns, at His coming, those who are alive and remain, will be caught up (raptured) and given relief from persecution, not just the Church at Thessalonica.
When Jesus Christ returns, at His coming, the wicked will be destroyed, not just those wicked persecuting the Church at Thessalonica.
This was covered in Paul’s first letter to the Church at Thessalonica, as well as when Paul was with them in person, as stated in
2 Thessalonians 2 -
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 2 Thessalonians 2:1-5
We must rightly divide God’s word, to see how the Spirit moved upon Paul, to address the Church at Thessalonica as well as all those who call upon the name of the Lord.
JLB
Upvote
0
And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:
Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.
Zechariah 14:12
- Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
- Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
This described intense heat.
JLB
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
DavidPT
Well-Known Member
- Sep 26, 2016
- 8,602
- 2,107
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
I tend to think this is meaning Revelation 19:21 for one. Where I see that being the same event as the following.
Isaiah 66:15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
Notice that verse 16 mentions His sword. There is also a sword mentioned in Revelation 19:21 as well.
Upvote
0
Well......yes, it IS people besides the Thessalonians.
I read it as "to give relief to you [Thessalonians] who are afflicted and to us [Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy] as well.
The opening of the letter to the church of the Thessalonians begins like this:
2 Thessalonians 1:1 ~
Greeting
1 From Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy:
To the church of the Thessalonians, which is in God our Father, and in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Greeting
1 From Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy:
To the church of the Thessalonians, which is in God our Father, and in the Lord Jesus Christ.
IOW: Us = Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy (the authors of the letter) not people 2000+ years later INSTEAD.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
DavidPT
Well-Known Member
- Sep 26, 2016
- 8,602
- 2,107
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Why not those you have listed, then everyone since then up until Christ returns? Which would include ppl 2000+ years later, but would also include ppl 100+ years later, 500+ years later, 1000+ years later, so on and so on. Why do some of you insist that these things were only applicable to those living at the time? Is it because you feel 70 AD explains why?
Upvote
0
I'm not so sure there even were exclusively Gentile churches at this time. Your comment about Jews being segregated from Gentiles "in Paul's time" is one of the things Jesus came to change (it may even be the greatest reason why the religious system was taken from the ancient Jewish religious leaders). St Paul was selected and instructed (I believe) by God to minister to the Gentiles and to bring them the good news of the Gospel.
Paul is mentioning visiting synagogues in Thessalonica - and I think that's where most of the followers of Jesus were assembling at this time (up until about 90 A.D.). To be honest - I've only been recently studying from a historical context for just a few months now - so I'm not so sturdy about the timeline (and the whole picture of things then). I think Acts 17 gives us a bit of a glimpse as to what was going on in Thessalonica around the time of Paul's (and Silas's and Timothy's) writing:
Acts 17:1-13 ~
1 Paul and Silas then traveled through the towns of Amphipolis and Apollonia and came to Thessalonica, where there was a Jewish synagogue.
2 As was Paul’s custom, he went to the synagogue service, and for three Sabbaths in a row he used the Scriptures to reason with the people.
3 He explained the prophecies and proved that the Messiah must suffer and rise from the dead. He said, “This Jesus I’m telling you about is the Messiah.”
4 Some of the Jews who listened were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, along with many God-fearing Greek men and quite a few prominent women.
5 But some of the Jews were jealous, so they gathered some troublemakers from the marketplace to form a mob and start a riot. They attacked the home of Jason, searching for Paul and Silas so they could drag them out to the crowd.
6 Not finding them there, they dragged out Jason and some of the other believers instead and took them before the city council. “Paul and Silas have caused trouble all over the world,” they shouted, “and now they are here disturbing our city, too.
7 And Jason has welcomed them into his home. They are all guilty of treason against Caesar, for they profess allegiance to another king, named Jesus.”
8 The people of the city, as well as the city council, were thrown into turmoil by these reports.
9 So the officials forced Jason and the other believers to post bond, and then they released them.
10 That very night the believers sent Paul and Silas to Berea. When they arrived there, they went to the Jewish synagogue.
11 And the people of Berea were more open-minded than those in Thessalonica, and they listened eagerly to Paul’s message. They searched the Scriptures day after day to see if Paul and Silas were teaching the truth.
12 As a result, many Jews believed, as did many of the prominent Greek women and men.
13 But when some Jews in Thessalonica learned that Paul was preaching the word of God in Berea, they went there and stirred up trouble.
1 Paul and Silas then traveled through the towns of Amphipolis and Apollonia and came to Thessalonica, where there was a Jewish synagogue.
2 As was Paul’s custom, he went to the synagogue service, and for three Sabbaths in a row he used the Scriptures to reason with the people.
3 He explained the prophecies and proved that the Messiah must suffer and rise from the dead. He said, “This Jesus I’m telling you about is the Messiah.”
4 Some of the Jews who listened were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, along with many God-fearing Greek men and quite a few prominent women.
5 But some of the Jews were jealous, so they gathered some troublemakers from the marketplace to form a mob and start a riot. They attacked the home of Jason, searching for Paul and Silas so they could drag them out to the crowd.
6 Not finding them there, they dragged out Jason and some of the other believers instead and took them before the city council. “Paul and Silas have caused trouble all over the world,” they shouted, “and now they are here disturbing our city, too.
7 And Jason has welcomed them into his home. They are all guilty of treason against Caesar, for they profess allegiance to another king, named Jesus.”
8 The people of the city, as well as the city council, were thrown into turmoil by these reports.
9 So the officials forced Jason and the other believers to post bond, and then they released them.
10 That very night the believers sent Paul and Silas to Berea. When they arrived there, they went to the Jewish synagogue.
11 And the people of Berea were more open-minded than those in Thessalonica, and they listened eagerly to Paul’s message. They searched the Scriptures day after day to see if Paul and Silas were teaching the truth.
12 As a result, many Jews believed, as did many of the prominent Greek women and men.
13 But when some Jews in Thessalonica learned that Paul was preaching the word of God in Berea, they went there and stirred up trouble.
That's a good question, I think. I'm not sure at this moment. It seems like that's a present wrath (that had already occurred at the writing of this letter - and not something even in their future). The wrath is directed towards those "who killed both the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, and drove us out as well" from verse 15 (so that would be the religious leaders of Jerusalem, as I see it, because that's who is responsible for all that). Unless by "wrath has come upon them" it's being written that the impending Day of Vengeance was sure to be happening soon? I'm not sure what that means. But I am thinking right now that they are referring to the same "coming of wrath" that will "pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels" as mentioned in their second letter to the Thessalonians.
I was actually going from memory - but have now looked it up and found this:
Quoting Bible.org:
The date for the writing of the Thessalonian Letters is one of the most certain dates we have involving Paul's letters. It is recorded that while Paul was in "Corinth he was arrested and brought before Gallio, the proconsul of Achaia." An inscription discovered at Delphi answers a question referred to the Emperor Claudius by this same Gallio. It was dated in the twelfth year of the Emperor's tribunal power and after his twenty-sixth acclamation as Emperor. This twelfth year was from 25 January a.d. 52 through 24 January a.d. 53. While the date of the twenty-sixth acclamation is not exactly known, the twenty-seventh was before 1 August a.d. 52. Claudius' decision would have been given to Gallio during the first half of 52. Now, proconsuls usually took office in early summer and held office for one year. It would seem, therefore, Gallio entered his term of office in the early summer of 51 (Morris, p. 15).
B. This dating of the term of office of the proconsul does not completely solve all the problems of the dating of the Thessalonian Letters. Paul was in Corinth for 18 months (Acts 18:11) but at which time he appeared before Gallio is not known. Most commentators date I and 2 Thessalonians in a.d. 50-51. ~ https://bible.org/seriespage/introduction-thessalonian-letters
Quoting from the Orthodox church:
Thessalonians
It is generally agreed that Saint Paul’s two letters to the Thessalonians are the first of the apostle’s epistles, and are also the earliest written documents of the New Testament scriptures. They were most likely sent from Corinth, at the end of the forties, in response to the report brought from Timothy that certain difficulties had arisen in the Thessalonian Church about the second coming of Christ and the resurrection of the dead.
In both of his letters to the Thessalonians, Saint Paul repeats the same doctrine. He urges patient steadfastness of faith and continual love and service to the Lord and the brethren in the face of the many persecutions and trials which were confronting the faithful. He affirms that the Lord will come “like a thief in the night” (1 Thess 5.2) when all satanic attacks against the faith have been completed.~ The Orthodox Faith - Volume I - Doctrine and Scripture - New Testament - Letters of Saint Paul
The date for the writing of the Thessalonian Letters is one of the most certain dates we have involving Paul's letters. It is recorded that while Paul was in "Corinth he was arrested and brought before Gallio, the proconsul of Achaia." An inscription discovered at Delphi answers a question referred to the Emperor Claudius by this same Gallio. It was dated in the twelfth year of the Emperor's tribunal power and after his twenty-sixth acclamation as Emperor. This twelfth year was from 25 January a.d. 52 through 24 January a.d. 53. While the date of the twenty-sixth acclamation is not exactly known, the twenty-seventh was before 1 August a.d. 52. Claudius' decision would have been given to Gallio during the first half of 52. Now, proconsuls usually took office in early summer and held office for one year. It would seem, therefore, Gallio entered his term of office in the early summer of 51 (Morris, p. 15).
B. This dating of the term of office of the proconsul does not completely solve all the problems of the dating of the Thessalonian Letters. Paul was in Corinth for 18 months (Acts 18:11) but at which time he appeared before Gallio is not known. Most commentators date I and 2 Thessalonians in a.d. 50-51. ~ https://bible.org/seriespage/introduction-thessalonian-letters
Quoting from the Orthodox church:
Thessalonians
It is generally agreed that Saint Paul’s two letters to the Thessalonians are the first of the apostle’s epistles, and are also the earliest written documents of the New Testament scriptures. They were most likely sent from Corinth, at the end of the forties, in response to the report brought from Timothy that certain difficulties had arisen in the Thessalonian Church about the second coming of Christ and the resurrection of the dead.
In both of his letters to the Thessalonians, Saint Paul repeats the same doctrine. He urges patient steadfastness of faith and continual love and service to the Lord and the brethren in the face of the many persecutions and trials which were confronting the faithful. He affirms that the Lord will come “like a thief in the night” (1 Thess 5.2) when all satanic attacks against the faith have been completed.~ The Orthodox Faith - Volume I - Doctrine and Scripture - New Testament - Letters of Saint Paul
Last edited:
Upvote
0
keras
Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
- Feb 7, 2013
- 13,679
- 2,491
- 82
- Country
- New Zealand
- Faith
- Pentecostal
- Marital Status
- Married
This is an event BEFORE the Return. It refers to the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster by fire from the sun.
Could be acid?
But why argue? Revelation 19:17-21, is perfectly clear; Jesus will use the Sword of His Word and the corpses will be edible by the wild birds.
Isaiah 66:15-17 cannot be related to the Return. It is the Lord's Day of fiery wrath against the nations, the Sixth Seal worldwide devastation that commences all the prophesied end time events.
Followed by our gathering into all of the holy Land. Isaiah 66:18b-21 Why is it so hard for people to see these truths?
Last edited:
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Because that leaves the intended audience (the 1st century Thessalonians) without the rest and relief that Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy had promised. It wasn't in death that they would receive rest from their persecution - it was a stop to the persecution in their lifetime that they were being promised (and God fulfilled that promise - I believe - in 70 A.D....in THEIR lifetime) Christ was revealed from heaven as their King that will forever sit on the throne of David (as they were anticipating). They got that idea from:
1 Kings 2:4 ~ and so that the Lord will carry out His promise that He made to me: 'If your sons are careful to walk faithfully before Me with their whole mind and heart, you will never fail to have a man on the throne of Israel.'
God's Covenant with David
God's Covenant with David
Quoting Ray Vander Laan------->The Jewish Revolts
Jewish people of Jesus' day had a passionate desire for freedom from the domination of the pagan Romans and the oppressive Herod dynasty that had ruled them for many years. Revolt seethed continuously, mostly underground, for more than 100 years from the time Herod became king (37 BC) until the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple (AD 70).It is helpful to realize that this underlying struggle is the backdrop for Jesus' ministry, and why so many hoped he would be a conquering king. This helps us understand why the adulation of the crowds during the triumphal entry reduced Jesus to tears, and probably why many rejected his message. ~ The Jewish Revolts
Jewish people of Jesus' day had a passionate desire for freedom from the domination of the pagan Romans and the oppressive Herod dynasty that had ruled them for many years. Revolt seethed continuously, mostly underground, for more than 100 years from the time Herod became king (37 BC) until the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple (AD 70).It is helpful to realize that this underlying struggle is the backdrop for Jesus' ministry, and why so many hoped he would be a conquering king. This helps us understand why the adulation of the crowds during the triumphal entry reduced Jesus to tears, and probably why many rejected his message. ~ The Jewish Revolts
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Fire from the Son... (See also 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Peter 3:10-13.)
Rev 6:12 I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood.
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. (Also found in Revelation 16.)
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains,
Rev 6:16 and said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
Rev 6:17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"
.
Upvote
0
And there WAS lots of fire at the destruction of Jerusalem in the 1st century:
“While the Temple was ablaze, the attackers plundered it, and countless people who were caught by them were slaughtered. There was no pity for age and no regard was accorded rank; children and old men, laymen and priests, alike were butchered; every class was pursued and crushed in the grip of war, whether they cried out for mercy or offered resistance.
Through the roar of the flames streaming far and wide, the groans of the falling victims were heard; such was the height of the hill and the magnitude of the blazing pile that the entire city seemed to be ablaze; and the noise – nothing more deafening and frightening could be imagined.
There were the war cries of the Roman legions as they swept onwards en masse, the yells of the rebels encircled by fire and sword, the panic of the people who, cut off above, fled into the arms of the enemy, and their shrieks as they met their fate. The cries on the hill blended with those of the multitudes in the city below; and now many people who were exhausted and tongue-tied as a result of hunger, when they beheld the Temple on fire, found strength once more to lament and wail.
The Temple Mount, everywhere enveloped in flames, seemed to be boiling over from its base; yet the blood seemed more abundant than the flames and the numbers of the slain greater than those of the slayers. The soldiers climbed over heaps of bodies as they chased the fugitives." (Josephus' account appears in: Cornfield, Gaalya ed., Josephus, The Jewish War (1982); Duruy, Victor, History of Rome vol. V (1883).)
Among the tragic events that at this time occurred, the following is more particularly deserving of notice: A false prophet, pretending to be a divine commission, said that if the people would flee to the Temple, they should behold signs of their speedy deliverance. Accordingly, about six thousand people, chiefly women and children, assembled in a gallery that was yet standing, on the outside of the building. While they waited in anxious expectation of the promised miracle, the Romans, with the most wanton barbarity, set fire to the gallery. Multitudes, rendered frantic by their horrible situation, threw themselves from the gallery onto the ruins below and were killed by the fall. Meanwhile, awful to relate, the rest, without a single exception, perished in the flames. (Welton, Jonathan (2013-11-01). Raptureless: An Optimistic Guide to the End of the World - Revised Edition Including The Art of Revelation (Kindle Locations 1380-1385). BookBaby. Kindle Edition.)
Through the roar of the flames streaming far and wide, the groans of the falling victims were heard; such was the height of the hill and the magnitude of the blazing pile that the entire city seemed to be ablaze; and the noise – nothing more deafening and frightening could be imagined.
There were the war cries of the Roman legions as they swept onwards en masse, the yells of the rebels encircled by fire and sword, the panic of the people who, cut off above, fled into the arms of the enemy, and their shrieks as they met their fate. The cries on the hill blended with those of the multitudes in the city below; and now many people who were exhausted and tongue-tied as a result of hunger, when they beheld the Temple on fire, found strength once more to lament and wail.
The Temple Mount, everywhere enveloped in flames, seemed to be boiling over from its base; yet the blood seemed more abundant than the flames and the numbers of the slain greater than those of the slayers. The soldiers climbed over heaps of bodies as they chased the fugitives." (Josephus' account appears in: Cornfield, Gaalya ed., Josephus, The Jewish War (1982); Duruy, Victor, History of Rome vol. V (1883).)
Among the tragic events that at this time occurred, the following is more particularly deserving of notice: A false prophet, pretending to be a divine commission, said that if the people would flee to the Temple, they should behold signs of their speedy deliverance. Accordingly, about six thousand people, chiefly women and children, assembled in a gallery that was yet standing, on the outside of the building. While they waited in anxious expectation of the promised miracle, the Romans, with the most wanton barbarity, set fire to the gallery. Multitudes, rendered frantic by their horrible situation, threw themselves from the gallery onto the ruins below and were killed by the fall. Meanwhile, awful to relate, the rest, without a single exception, perished in the flames. (Welton, Jonathan (2013-11-01). Raptureless: An Optimistic Guide to the End of the World - Revised Edition Including The Art of Revelation (Kindle Locations 1380-1385). BookBaby. Kindle Edition.)
Upvote
0
How many islands were in Jerusalem during 70 AD?
Rev 6:14 Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place.
Did the greatest earthquake in history occur during 70 AD?
Did cities in other nations fall during 70 AD?
Were the mountains leveled during 70 AD?
Rev 16:18 And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth.
Rev 16:19 Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.
Rev 16:20 Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
The persecution against the early church wasn't limited to just Jerusalem (as we're discussing now - it affected those in Thessolonica as well.....and most of the Roman empire). In the very beginning (Acts 9) - we see that Saul/Paul had received “letters of authority” from the Sanhedrin in Jerusalem to pursue and persecute Christians all the way to Damascus.
Here's a map I found that shows the ancient Roman empire (and there ARE islands there):
ST John was on an island when he received the Revelation of Christ:
And, as I'm sure you know (because you have posted about it yourself) Revelation is a book of symbolism and metaphors. It's not meant to be taken literally. Did the city of Babylon literally commit sexual fornication? Or is that referring to her idolatrous ways?
Here're examples of symbolism from Revelation that you refer to (that I appreciate):
BABerean said:
BABerean said:
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Similar threads
