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Abortion thoughts worrying me

NoahSK

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I keep getting thoughts that abortion is okay because it sends babies to heaven before they have the choice to deny Jesus. I know this doesn't justify abortion, but I can't get the thought out of my head and I'm worried I believe it. Trying to counter the thought doesn't help. For example, I'll say "That's a sin and God will punish you for it, so why would you want to do that?" But then my mind would go "It's worth it to save the baby, even if I get punished." So I can't really fight the thought without my mind continuing to justify this. I don't know how to convince myself this is wrong. I don't know.
 
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NoahSK

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It sounds like the enemy is louder than usual, you should pray that God give you the wisdom to overcome these bothering thoughts.
The thing that bothers me most is the "logic" going through my head. It basically says that even though killing babies is wrong, it leads to good, and even if the ends don't justify the means and I get punished (going to hell), it's worth it for the baby. How do I combat this logic in my head? I don't know how to counter it since it almost makes sense. Even if I'm punished for it, it's worth it for the baby? I don't know. Not that I'd actually do something like this.
 
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public hermit

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There is a certain amount of reasonableness to your thought, which is why it's hard to shake. The various premises and conclusion you're entertaining make a certain amount of sense together. So, what you need to do is pick out each premise and analyse it by itself. Let's see:

1. Someone has an abortion.
2. Baby goes to heaven.
3. Baby does not grow to maturity and take chance of denying Christ.

Conclusion: Baby is saved.

Okay, the conclusion is the part that you like. You also like premise 2, because it's essentially the same as the conclusion.

What about premise 1? It doesn't bother you that someone has to perform the abortion? I assume you consider it murder. Or at least you would if it were not for this funky little argument. But, just think, someone has to become culpible of sin to save the baby. That's an odd moral give and take. So, at the very least, premise 1 is questionable.

Premise 3 assumes the child won't be saved. Once the abortion happens it is, practically speaking, done under the assumption the child was doomed. Had you known otherwise, then no abortion. It's like, instead of rolling the dice, one assumes one would have lost. And this is questionable. You're assuming you know the limits to God's mercy for a particular life, and you just can't know that. (Okay, my argument against premise 3 isn't as cogent as it seemed in my head, but I'm tired of typing).

At any rate take some time to analyze it proper, and it will lose some of its mystique.
 
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AllDayFaith

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How do I combat this logic in my head?
The easiest way to fight those thoughts are to quote scripture. Reciting the Bible will cause the enemy to flee far from you. But they will return, so it's best to keep at it. I'm trying to think of a scripture that would help you the most, and I think this one would help, "Thou shalt not kill."
 
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Sabertooth

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How do I combat this logic in my head? I don't know how to counter it since it almost makes sense. Even if I'm punished for it, it's worth it for the baby? I don't know. Not that I'd actually do something like this.
Overwhelmed By OCD...?

There is nothing that I can explain that will make the compulsions stop, otherwise.
 
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NoahSK

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There is a certain amount of reasonableness to your thought, which is why it's hard to shake. The various premises and conclusion you're entertaining make a certain amount of sense together. So, what you need to do is pick out each premise and analyse it by itself. Let's see:

1. Someone has an abortion.
2. Baby goes to heaven.
3. Baby does not grow to maturity and take chance of denying Christ.

Conclusion: Baby is saved.

Okay, the conclusion is the part that you like. You also like premise 2, because it's essentially the same as the conclusion.

What about premise 1? It doesn't bother you that someone has to perform the abortion? I assume you consider it murder. Or at least you would if it were not for this funky little argument. But, just think, someone has to become culpible of sin to save the baby. That's an odd moral give and take. So, at the very least, premise 1 is questionable.

Premise 3 assumes the child won't be saved. Once the abortion happens it is, practically speaking, done under the assumption the child was doomed. Had you known otherwise, then no abortion. It's like, instead of rolling the dice, one assumes one would have lost. And this is questionable. You're assuming you know the limits to God's mercy for a particular life, and you just can't know that. (Okay, my argument against premise 3 isn't as cogent as it seemed in my head, but I'm tired of typing).

At any rate take some time to analyze it proper, and it will lose some of its mystique.
The biggest thing, and the thing that worries me the most, is that couldn't someone argue they are being selfless by choosing to sin, thereby submitting themselves to God's wrath and anger, if it prevents the same fate from happening to the baby? This, right here, is the most frightening part, because my mind wants to think this makes perfect sense, and I can't reasonably argue against it. The only thing I can think of that would be a suitable counter would be the child being punished, thereby ruining the aborter's (not sure what else to call them?) reasoning. But since God is merciful and most likely wouldn't do that, the aborter's logic still stands? I don't know. I don't want to have these thoughts or believe them or whatever, but I just can't shake them or provide a reasonable argument against them.
 
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Noscentia

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God would never want you to sin, even if you believe it's for a just cause. If you're going to use logic like that, it only perpetuates greater sin. Why not simply kill as many people as possible? For every individual you kill, you prevent entire generations of potential progeny from being born and thus potentially suffering condemnation. You could twist any sin this way. Going against the will of God will always be wrong, regardless of your intent, and you'd be wrong to do it.

Remember that the world is full of corruption of death because of the invasion of sin. You would only make the world a worse place by bringing more sin into it. You'd harm those children, you'd harm the children's families, you'd harm societies, and you'd be spitting in the face of your creator who loves you.
 
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coffee4u

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The thing that bothers me most is the "logic" going through my head. It basically says that even though killing babies is wrong, it leads to good, and even if the ends don't justify the means and I get punished (going to hell), it's worth it for the baby. How do I combat this logic in my head? I don't know how to counter it since it almost makes sense. Even if I'm punished for it, it's worth it for the baby? I don't know. Not that I'd actually do something like this.

That is because Satan uses logic, if he came out of left field with only the preposterous we would immediately throw up our hand (figuratively and probably literally) and dismiss it right away. Logic makes us stop and think on it, which is what is happening to you.

Genesis 3
How much logic is used here and how much slight twisting of the truth. They say people that lie 'well' do so because the lie contains as much truth as possible. Remember it only takes one drop of arsenic.

3 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”
2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die."
4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it.

She used her logic and deducted this was a good thing to do, but of course, her logic was flawed as are the thoughts you are having.

You could take this 'logic' of aborting babies that it sends them to heaven and transfer that to a 3 month old. The same arguments of "before they have the choice to deny Jesus" and "It's worth it to save the baby" still apply. I doubt you would have similar thoughts about a baby. You would immediately know that was abhorrent and wrong on all levels. (Postpartum psychosis aside. If you did just have a baby and have thoughts like that please get medical help immediately)
So knowing that Satan is getting to you quote scripture aloud.

Ecclesiastes 11:5
As you do not know what is the way of the wind,
Or how the bones grow in the womb of her who is with child,
So you do not know the works of God who makes everything.

Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
(God may have a good work already planned out for that unborn baby)

Jeremiah 1:5
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you;
Before you were born I sanctified you;
I ordained you a prophet to the nations.”

Matthew 18:10
10 “Take heed that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that in heaven their angels always see the face of My Father who is in heaven."

Psalm 139:13-16 (my favourite)
13 For You formed my inward parts;
You covered me in my mother’s womb.
14 I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Marvellous are Your works,
And that my soul knows very well.
15 My frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.
And in Your book they all were written,
The days fashioned for me,
When as yet there were none of them.

Luke 1:44
44 For indeed, as soon as the voice of your greeting sounded in my ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.
 
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NoahSK

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God would never want you to sin, even if you believe it's for a just cause. If you're going to use logic like that, it only perpetuates greater sin. Why not simply kill as many people as possible? For every individual you kill, you prevent entire generations of potential progeny from being born and thus potentially suffering condemnation. You could twist any sin this way. Going against the will of God will always be wrong, regardless of your intent, and you'd be wrong to do it.

Remember that the world is full of corruption of death because of the invasion of sin. You would only make the world a worse place by bringing more sin into it. You'd harm those children, you'd harm the children's families, you'd harm societies, and you'd be spitting in the face of your creator who loves you.
I guess. I don't know why my mind continues to throw seemingly "reasonable" logic at me when I try to fight these thoughts that attempt to "justify" sin. I don't know. Maybe OCD, but it still sucks.
 
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public hermit

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The biggest thing, and the thing that worries me the most, is that couldn't someone argue they are being selfless by choosing to sin, thereby submitting themselves to God's wrath and anger, if it prevents the same fate from happening to the baby? This, right here, is the most frightening part, because my mind wants to think this makes perfect sense, and I can't reasonably argue against it. The only thing I can think of that would be a suitable counter would be the child being punished, thereby ruining the aborter's (not sure what else to call them?) reasoning. But since God is merciful and most likely wouldn't do that, the aborter's logic still stands? I don't know. I don't want to have these thoughts or believe them or whatever, but I just can't shake them or provide a reasonable argument against them.

I see what you're saying. And, I admit the argument is compelling. What is your position on God's foreknowledge? That may be a helpful route. If God foreknows the future choices the child would have made, then God knows if the aborter's act is bringing about salvation or just the murder of someone who would have been saved anyway.

Also the sin of taking a life is no small thing. The aborter is not necessarily off the hook, just because it appears selfless. I still think it's a sketchy moral exchange.
 
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NoahSK

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I doubt you would have similar thoughts about a baby. You would immediately know that was abhorrent and wrong on all levels. (Postpartum psychosis aside. If you did just have a baby and have thoughts like that please get medical help immediately)
Okay, I'm not a woman, nor have I had any children, but this is freaking me out, because thinking about this, and I think there have been points where my mind might have went there. I never actually want to do any of this and I know it's wrong, but now I'm scared that something's wrong with me. I know I have OCD, and I figured that could have been the source of the thoughts and stuff, but now I'm really nervous and worried.
 
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coffee4u

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I guess. I don't know why my mind continues to throw seemingly "reasonable" logic at me when I try to fight these thoughts that attempt to "justify" sin. I don't know. Maybe OCD, but it still sucks.

Did you notice my reply above? Anytime you get these thoughts meditate on those verses. and tell yourself "This baby could be a great person of God"

Jeremiah 1:5
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you;
Before you were born I sanctified you;
I ordained you a prophet to the nations.”

This unborn was designated to be a great profit. Imagine if someone had come along and killed him before he could be born.
 
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coffee4u

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Okay, I'm not a woman, nor have I had any children, but this is freaking me out, because thinking about this, and I think there have been points where my mind might have went there. I never actually want to do any of this and I know it's wrong, but now I'm scared that something's wrong with me. I know I have OCD, and I figured that could have been the source of the thoughts and stuff, but now I'm really nervous and worried.

If you feel you have or could go there, get help. Don't struggle on your own.
 
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NoahSK

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Did you notice my reply above? Anytime you get these thoughts meditate on those verses. and tell yourself "This baby could be a great person of God"

Jeremiah 1:5
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you;
Before you were born I sanctified you;
I ordained you a prophet to the nations.”

This unborn was designated to be a great profit. Imagine if someone had come along and killed him before he could be born.
I guess. Some of these comments are helping a bit, but the thought is still kind of there. I know OCD can cause it too, so maybe I should have just ignored it and it would have gone away. It's actually getting a bit better now.
 
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NoahSK

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If you feel you have or could go there, get help. Don't struggle on your own.
No, it's not that, I would NEVER do that, I don't think. I know it's wrong, even with the faulty logic going through my head, and I don't think I'd ever do that. Also, couldn't this just be OCD? I've heard OCD can make you think you want to do things that you really do not.
 
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Also, couldn't this just be OCD? I've heard OCD can make you think you want to do things that you really do not.
Yes. It most likely is.
 
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I keep getting thoughts that abortion is okay because it sends babies to heaven before they have the choice to deny Jesus. I know this doesn't justify abortion, but I can't get the thought out of my head and I'm worried I believe it. Trying to counter the thought doesn't help. For example, I'll say "That's a sin and God will punish you for it, so why would you want to do that?" But then my mind would go "It's worth it to save the baby, even if I get punished." So I can't really fight the thought without my mind continuing to justify this. I don't know how to convince myself this is wrong. I don't know.
Is this troubling you for personal reasons, or in a more abstract way?
 
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Aussie Pete

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I keep getting thoughts that abortion is okay because it sends babies to heaven before they have the choice to deny Jesus. I know this doesn't justify abortion, but I can't get the thought out of my head and I'm worried I believe it. Trying to counter the thought doesn't help. For example, I'll say "That's a sin and God will punish you for it, so why would you want to do that?" But then my mind would go "It's worth it to save the baby, even if I get punished." So I can't really fight the thought without my mind continuing to justify this. I don't know how to convince myself this is wrong. I don't know.
Abortion puts the instigator in the position of God. Who knows, apart from God, what the child is meant to be? I was born out of wedlock, 68 years ago. It was shameful for my mother and her family. My father was involved in the Korean war. My parents married as soon as he returned. In this day and age, I could easily and legally have been disposed of. I'm rather glad that I was not.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Can I give you a different take altogether...

You identify a thought you don't agree with or feel comfortable with.

You have a choice - relate to it as an enemy or a friend.

You are the boss of your mind.

We know that Jesus has through the cross and resurrection demonstrated that He is the final authority over everything in the heavens on earth and under the earth. This includes thoughts.

If you don't want this thought any more , address it as an enemy and simply tell it to go in Jesus name. If you are whole hearted about this He will stand with you and do the rest. This may have to be repeated over a period of time, just hit it exactly the same way whenever it tries to take hold. You may find it strange to speak to a thought - just do it - it has to obey His authority. This is not a prayer, it is a demand.

I have journeyed out of quite some darkness and this has been a key to my success. We simply don't have to tolerate these intrusions. The mind is only a battle ground if we allow it.

Sometimes Jesus will bring to mind an incident that has resulted in you having given permission for these thoughts to come - or it could have established through a trauma. If you feel conviction (not condemnation) just come before Him in prayer and ask for forgiveness.

Always ask Him for conviction and keep 'short accounts' never let unconfessed sin build up.

Summary.
You don't have to put up with intruding thoughts.
You are the boss of your mind.
Jesus will act if you tell the intrusions to go in Jesus Name.
Repeat if necessary.

Feel free to ask if you have any questions.
 
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