Noah's Ark Part 2: Marsupial Edition

Emmylouwho · Oct 17, 2019

Marsupials live in Australasia and the Americas. They don't exist in the Middle East. Did some descendant of Noah collect all the marsupials, build a SECOND ark, and sail to Australia? Was there yet another marsupial-centric ark that travelled to the Americas?

Noscentia · Oct 17, 2019

I don't think the Bible ever specifically says how the animals were disseminated after the flood. Best we can do is speculate. Maybe it was a series of increasingly specific arks. Maybe birds carried them. Maybe they sprang wholesale out of the ground at God's command. We don't know. We don't even know what sorts of antediluvian creatures were aboard the ark in the first place.

Emmylouwho · Oct 17, 2019

Noscentia said:
I don't think the Bible ever specifically says how the animals were disseminated after the flood. Best we can do is speculate. Maybe it was a series of increasingly specific arks. Maybe birds carried them. Maybe they sprang wholesale out of the ground at God's command. We don't know. We don't even know what sorts of antediluvian creatures were aboard the ark in the first place.

Of course we know what creatures were on the original ark. Whatever is alive today. God destroyed all other land life.

Noscentia · Oct 17, 2019

Emmylouwho said:
Of course we know what creatures were on the original ark. Whatever is alive today. God destroyed all other land life.

Well, we know some species have changed over time within species and even more have gone extinct, so it wouldn't be the exact same animals we know today. There's an interesting theory in creation research that suggests the animals in the ark might have been more like ultimate genetic progenitors of the animals we have today which spread and adapted to its environments. For example, Noah may have loaded up some genetic ancestor cat whose descendants post-flood spread and diversified into the ultimate variety of cats we see now including tigers, lions, ocelots, housecats, etc. depending on its environment. The cats Noah knew would have a lot more genetic information than modern cats which allowed for this wide variety, and we likely have no way of knowing exactly what that cat progenitor would have looked like.

Emmylouwho · Oct 17, 2019

Noscentia said:
Well, we know some species have changed over time within species and even more have gone extinct, so it wouldn't be the exact same animals we know today. There's an interesting theory in creation research that suggests the animals in the ark might have been more like ultimate genetic progenitors of the animals we have today which spread and adapted to its environments. For example, Noah may have loaded up some genetic ancestor cat whose descendants post-flood spread and diversified into the ultimate variety of cats we see now including tigers, lions, ocelots, housecats, etc. depending on its environment. The cats Noah knew would have a lot more genetic information than modern cats which allowed for this wide variety, and we likely have no way of knowing exactly what that cat progenitor would have looked like.

So you believe in evolution then?

Noscentia · Oct 17, 2019

No, I am a young earth creationist. I believe change can occur within a given kind. Microevolution, as it's been dubbed. I don't believe in macroevolution, which is the idea that one kind can become another kind.

Original Happy Camper · Oct 17, 2019

Noscentia said:
We don't even know what sorts of antediluvian creatures were aboard the ark in the first place.

Genesis 7:2 King James Version (KJV)
2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

Malachi 3:6
For I am the Lord, I change not;

Leviticus 11:4
Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Leviticus 11:5
And the coney, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Leviticus 11:6
And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Leviticus 11:7
And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.

JackRT · Oct 17, 2019

Noscentia said:
The cats Noah knew would have a lot more genetic information than modern cats which allowed for this wide variety, and we likely have no way of knowing exactly what that cat progenitor would have looked like.

The Noah flood has been determined to have happened about 4300 years ago if we are to believe the Bible on this point. We are now able to sequence the genome of animals from much further back in time than that. All we have to do is find the remains of a pre-flood cat (that's easy) and see if it actually does have "a lot more genetic information".

spoiler alert: it won't

Original Happy Camper · Oct 17, 2019

Emmylouwho said:
Of course we know what creatures were on the original ark. Whatever is alive today. God destroyed all other land life.

Including the destruction of the man made dinosaurs.

JackRT · Oct 17, 2019

Oh my, man made dinosaurs.

Original Happy Camper · Oct 17, 2019

JackRT said:
Oh my, man made dinosaurs.

two choices

either on the ark or

destroyed by GOD in the flood

which do you believe?

Dave-W · Oct 17, 2019

Original Happy Camper said:
Genesis 7:2 King James Version (KJV)
2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

Which was told to mankind about 2000 years AFTER Noah and the flood.

Dave-W · Oct 17, 2019

Original Happy Camper said:
two choices

either on the ark or
destroyed by GOD in the flood

OR - had already died out before the flood.

Noscentia · Oct 17, 2019

Original Happy Camper said:
Genesis 7:2 King James Version (KJV)
2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

Malachi 3:6
For I am the Lord, I change not;

Leviticus 11:4
Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Leviticus 11:5
And the coney, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Leviticus 11:6
And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Leviticus 11:7
And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.

I wasn't really talking about clean vs unclean, I'm aware of that. I was talking about what specific animals. For example: yes, camels are unclean, and there were unclean animals on the Ark, but that doesn't preclude the theory that rather than modern camels on the Ark, it was a dromedary or equine progenitor.

Dave-W · Oct 17, 2019

Original Happy Camper said:
Including the destruction of the man made dinosaurs.

God never let men create life.

Emmylouwho · Oct 17, 2019

Noscentia said:
Well, we know some species have changed over time within species and even more have gone extinct, so it wouldn't be the exact same animals we know today. There's an interesting theory in creation research that suggests the animals in the ark might have been more like ultimate genetic progenitors of the animals we have today which spread and adapted to its environments. For example, Noah may have loaded up some genetic ancestor cat whose descendants post-flood spread and diversified into the ultimate variety of cats we see now including tigers, lions, ocelots, housecats, etc. depending on its environment. The cats Noah knew would have a lot more genetic information than modern cats which allowed for this wide variety, and we likely have no way of knowing exactly what that cat progenitor would have looked like.

So, do you think there was a progenitor of marsupials that once existed in the Middle East?

Original Happy Camper · Oct 17, 2019

JackRT said:
Oh my, man made dinosaurs.

JackRT said:
The Noah flood has been determined to have happened about 4300

Creation week to the flood
3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:
6 And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos:
9 And Enos lived ninety years, and begat Cainan:
12 And Cainan lived seventy years and begat Mahalaleel:
15 And Mahalaleel lived sixty and five years, and begat Jared:
18 And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch:
21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:
27 And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.

Methuselah died the year of the flood
doing the math 1,661 from creation week to flood

so when did the dinosaurs exist? or do you subscribe to things being here before the creation week?

JackRT · Oct 17, 2019

Original Happy Camper said:
two choices

either on the ark or

destroyed by GOD in the flood

which do you believe?

There is a third choice which actually conforms to the facts. All the non-avian dinosaurs became extinct due to an asteroid impact (Chixilub crater) some 63,000,000 YBP.

Original Happy Camper · Oct 17, 2019

Dave-W said:
God never let men create life.

cloning, gene splitting ect

Dave-W · Oct 17, 2019

Original Happy Camper said:
cloning, gene splitting ect

Messing with life that already exists.
We have made no new species or classes of animals or plants.

Noah's Ark Part 2: Marsupial Edition

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