bekkilyn

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The difference between men and women is a biological fact. No I don't always understand my boys either, but for other reasons than why I don't understand the female mind.

You keep claiming the difference is a biological fact, but I've yet to see anyone define "the female mind" or "the male mind". Is it about some stereotype that "the female mind" enjoys shopping and collecting shoes while "the male mind" enjoys making loud bodily noises while watching football? I mean, help me out here.

Personally, I have my own mind and reject this concept that each gender belongs to its own borg collective or hive mind.
 
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Kaon

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The major difference between man and woman is spiritual.

Carnality/physical is easy to change - clearly in this age. But, the change doesn't make you any gender.

In fact, there are men with penises and testicles that are not even spiritually male according to the Most High God. The reason why, at best, we describe masculinity and femininity from an anthropological standard is because we inherently understand we don't know what the heck we are talking about when it comes to "gender", and we are trying to learn from each other to build a standard.

But, we are all lost (clearly) without the standard of the Most High God - and He was explicit about female and male roles and duties.


Adam was Adam and Eve - then the Most High God split him into Adam and Eve separately. But, Adam and Eve is still Adam (man[kind]). That is the point of marriage - that there are two sides of one coin joined together. How can you separate heads and tails from a penny? (This is how serious marriage under the Most High God is.)
 
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mkgal1

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Doesn't mean you can't love them well. What would relationship be with out mystery?
Mystery is one thing - but an inability to understand (maybe that's not even the best way to express that - perhaps "expecting not to understand and being dismissive of another person, especially a spouse") is destructive to a marriage.
 
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renniks

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Mystery is one thing - but an inability to understand (maybe that's not even the best way to express that - perhaps "expecting not to understand and being dismissive of another person, especially a spouse") is destructive to a marriage.
Nobody is talking about being dismissive of another person. I'm talking about the natural differences between men and women. It's part of why same sex relationships are so wrong. We are meant to compliment each other. It's how we are created. If we were the same sexually, mentally, psychologically, or physically why would there even be an attraction?
 
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renniks

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You keep claiming the difference is a biological fact, but I've yet to see anyone define "the female mind" or "the male mind". Is it about some stereotype that "the female mind" enjoys shopping and collecting shoes while "the male mind" enjoys making loud bodily noises while watching football? I mean, help me out here.
The female brain is literally wired differently. It's why men tend to see things in a linear fashion, and women see everything as connected. And then there's the moods due to the time of month, I suppose you are going to try and deny those are real too...
 
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mkgal1

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Nobody is talking about being dismissive of another person. I'm talking about the natural differences between men and women
I'm thinking of things like this guy (and how it DOES encourage men to be dismissive to their wives - stating "who can understand them?!").


You're insistent that there are "natural differences" due to chromosomes and genitalia - but that's not what causes two people to be different in their thinking or in their personalities.
It's part of why same sex relationships are so wrong. We are meant to compliment each other. It's how we are created. If we were the same sexually, mentally, psychologically, or physically why would there even be an attraction?
No one is talking about "being the same......" - we are ALL unique and have our own way of thinking etc. That's quite a theory. Apparently there ARE plenty of same sex attractions (and guess what? They ALSO have difficulty understanding one another) - so that seems like an odd way to reason?
 
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mkgal1

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The female brain is literally wired differently. It's why men tend to see things in a linear fashion, and women see everything as connected.
It DOES sound as if you're getting your "scientific data" from Mark Gungor.
 
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iluvatar5150

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The female brain is literally wired differently. It's why men tend to see things in a linear fashion, and women see everything as connected.

And yet, if you compared me to my mother, those would be flipped.

And then there's the moods due to the time of month, I suppose you are going to try and deny those are real too...

They're certainly not universal. Neither my ex nor my current wife had any significant mood shifts during their cycle. I've never talked to my mother about her cycle, but I don't recall her having any mood shifts, either - she's known for being remarkably even-keeled. I have bigger mood shifts than all of them when I skip breakfast and/or try to cut weight.
 
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mkgal1

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Doesn't mean you can't love them well. What would relationship be with out mystery?
Love means trying to know another person. So - in order to "love someone well" - IMO, we need to not stand behind stereotypical reasons for there being barriers in our understanding.

I love this quote in my signature: “The problem with stereotypes is not that they are untrue, but that they are incomplete. They make one story become the only story.” ~Chimanda Ngozi Adichie
 
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renniks

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Love means trying to know another person. So - in order to "love someone well" - IMO, we need to not stand behind stereotypical reasons for there being barriers in our understanding.

I love this quote in my signature: “The problem with stereotypes is not that they are untrue, but that they are incomplete. They make one story become the only story.” ~Chimanda Ngozi Adichie
Who is creating stereotypes? I helped " create" daughters who can do anything the boys do. They are in male-dominated fields of work, and doing just fine. Doesn't change the fact that they are deeply feminine in ways they don't even always recognize.
We love people, not by understanding everything about them, but being often perplexed and not allowing it to change our hearts.
 
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mkgal1

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Who is creating stereotypes? I helped " create" daughters who can do anything the boys do. They are in male-dominated fields of work, and doing just fine. Doesn't change the fact that they are deeply feminine in ways they don't even always recognize.
We love people, not by understanding everything about them, but being often perplexed and not allowing it to change our hearts.
Creating? I don't know WHO created that stereotype......but it's perpetuating a stereotype to assume a change in a female's mood is due to her monthly fluctuation of hormones (for one example).

But good on you for bringing up daughters with a sense of equality.

I'll also agree that love can include not understanding things about a person but not allowing that to change our hearts about them (still "accepting" them).
 
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bekkilyn

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The female brain is literally wired differently. It's why men tend to see things in a linear fashion, and women see everything as connected. And then there's the moods due to the time of month, I suppose you are going to try and deny those are real too...

And what of all the numerous women who see things in a linear fashion and all the numerous men who see everything as connected? If you are going to claim that men and women are literally wired differently, there would be NO exceptions because such an exception would literally be impossible.

And men have hormonal cycles as well, so moodiness due to hormonal changes isn't at all limited to women. Men of course do not bleed because they do not get pregnant.

When you begin to see people as individuals rather than part of some stereotypical group, you will begin to realize that our differences are because we are, each and every single one of us, unique. There is no one who ever existed who is like you and there will be no one who will ever exist in the future who is like you. Your biology is just one small part of who you are and the part that will pretty much be discarded as inconsequential when God's Kingdom is fully realized. Your biology isn't what determines you or makes you you as a person.
 
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Tom 1

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Welcome to GQ's New Masculinity issue, an exploration of the ways that traditional notions of masculinity are being challenged, overturned, and evolved.

Feature article with Pharrell on Evolving Masculinity and Spiritual Warfare

There were gender-fluid elements to the way you dressed long before it became a national conversation.

It started with the “I can pull that off” thing. I wore a lot of Chanel, and I wore tons of Céline. Like, I got all the O.G. Céline. Because they were clothes I could fit in. When you listen to yourself and you're comfortable in who you are, you wear what you feel like fits and looks right on you. And that's it.


Question: What are your thoughts on “new masculinity?” Is it a fad or something deeper?

~Bella

View attachment 265061

'Never give a sword to a man who can't dance' - Confucious? The Celts? No-one knows. The 'gender-fluid' notion is a red herring, you can deny biology but that doesn't change it, but there's certainly a case to be made for a loss of the right blend or the right degree of blending in ideas about masculinity.
 
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bekkilyn

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Who is creating stereotypes? I helped " create" daughters who can do anything the boys do. They are in male-dominated fields of work, and doing just fine. Doesn't change the fact that they are deeply feminine in ways they don't even always recognize.
We love people, not by understanding everything about them, but being often perplexed and not allowing it to change our hearts.

I have no idea what you mean by "deeply feminine" any more than I'd have any idea if you claimed them to be "deeply masculine". Again, does it have something to do with shoes and shopping or what? Help me out here!
 
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renniks

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When you begin to see people as individuals rather than part of some stereotypical group, you will begin to realize that our differences are because we are, each and every single one of us, unique. There is no one who ever existed who is like you and there will be no one who will ever exist in the future who is like you. Your biology is just one small part of who you are and the part that will pretty much be discarded as inconsequential when God's Kingdom is fully realized. Your biology isn't what determines you or makes you you as a person.
I think you just proved my point. No one is debating whether we are all individuals. No one is claiming your biology is everything about you. Let's try to stay on topic.
 
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mkgal1

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I think you just proved my point. No one is debating whether we are all individuals. No one is claiming your biology is everything about you. Let's try to stay on topic.
Interesting example of "confirmation bias" and why stereotypical beliefs may cause a person to interpret something differently than what's being said or to neglect to follow the discussion point of the other person (IOW - misunderstanding).
 
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bekkilyn

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I think you just proved my point. No one is debating whether we are all individuals. No one is claiming your biology is everything about you. Let's try to stay on topic.

I made no mention of liking shoes, shopping, loud bodily noises, or team sports, so how am I proving your point again?
 
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there's certainly a case to be made for a loss of the right blend or the right degree of blending in ideas about masculinity.

I would be curious to hear the case for that right degree of blending. I grew up with fairly traditional ideas of masculinity: strong, hard-working, steady, capable, and such. To this day, I try to embody the ideas of masculinity I grew up with. Nonetheless, in terms of character traits, when I try to determine the differences between masculinity and femininity I come up short. Meaning, the same characteristics I consider masculine seem wholly appropriate and desirable for women. I certainly wouldn't want to hitch my wagon with a woman who was weak, lazy, unpredictable, incapable, and so on. Is the difference between masculinity and femininity only physical/biological? Or, is it how those characteristics are expressed, perhaps? I truly haven't been able to put my finger on it. Maybe I'm looking too closely. Would you mind saying more?
 
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