I'm a Christian but I can't get behind the notion that God is mericful

Aussie Pete

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Aug 14, 2019
9,081
8,268
Frankston
Visit site
✟727,030.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Divorced
Nobody is teaching me anything. David's son also died because of his sin and God punished his other children after adultery/murder. You might want to include the full story.
You need to know what mercy is. It seems to me that you have no idea. If I were God, there would be no questions because I would have wiped the human race out and started again. All you can see is this life. This current experience we go through sets us up for eternity. God uses carrot and stick. If His goodness is not enough, the stick comes out. Why? To encourage us to change our attitudes before it is too late. Those who are outside of God's covenant benefit from God's generosity and mercy. He sends rain and sun on the just and the unjust alike. Yes, the weather is now screwy. God is not the one cutting down the trees that control CO2 in the atmosphere. There is a fundamental law that people studiously ignore. Whatever you sow, you reap. That applies to believers and unbelievers alike.
 
Upvote 0

Aussie Pete

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Aug 14, 2019
9,081
8,268
Frankston
Visit site
✟727,030.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Divorced
Honestly none of that I've just recently read the Bible, digested and came to a conclusion. I was a christian who was always under the conclusion God was merciful. I'm not doubting anything in the Bible. It's just I can't believe he is merciful and literally every other story he's killing someone. I have yet to find one story that displays mercy besides maybe the Book of Jonah and some rare times where Judah/Israel repented.
The fact that the human race still exists is due to God's mercy.
 
Upvote 0

xBladesx

Regular Member
May 18, 2005
312
74
43
✟21,648.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Reading and learning about Jesus shows us God is merciful

Even though we're all sinners He still came down to our level and took the rap for us on the Cross.
That's why we no longer have to offer a sacrifice to atone of our sins
Jesus did that for use so we now only have to ask for forgiveness and accept Him as our Lord and savior

Further more on the way to His Crucifixion he endured unimaginable amounts of pain and torture
Imagine carrying the cross beam of the cross ~100lbs/45kgs after having you back shredded with cat of 9 tails (believed to be used) and losing a lot of blood

Jesus endured it all to the end and didn't quit

As far as ananias and sapphira go, they lied to gain popularity and still benefit from it.
I don't know why the Lord Judged them so harshly but its kind of like stealing from Him (open to correction)
 
Upvote 0

Yahkov

Active Member
Jul 18, 2019
185
59
30
Texas
✟13,852.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Just look at the Old Testament there is no mercy. Those who are told they are going to die die (Davids son, Achan etc). The Old Testament seemed like a very much "one strike rule you're out". It seems God rarely spared lives besides the rare occasions Isreal/Judah repented. Moving to the New Testament I see cases like ananias and sapphira. It just seems like to me there's way more death than mercy/lives and judgment being spared. If anyone has any counter argument verses feel free but.

God's mercy is abundant in the Old Testament. From the very beginning, God clothed Adam and Eve after they have sinned and God protected the life of Cain after he murdered his own brother. God has shown Israel mercy all throughout the Old Testament. God also judges and punishes. We see that all throughout the Old Testament as well. Just the mere act of warning people is showing mercy. This is also found all throughout the Old Testament.

The most obvious that comes when you read the Bible in its entirety: the cross. Those whom you read about in the Old Testament were also saved by Christ and what He has done on the cross.

For a more deeper study, when God commands the death of entire cities, He is sparing the Israelites from idolatry, showing even more mercy. In fact, we see the result of them disobeying God's command when they spare some: they become idolatrous with foreign gods.

What I believe may be of help, adjust your perspective. What you may view as mercy may not align with what God says mercy actually is. Your view of justice may also fall short of God's justice.

"O LORD, you have searched me and known me! You know when I sit down and when I rise up; you discern my thoughts from afar. You search out my path and my lying down and are acquainted with all my ways. Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O LORD, you know it altogether." - Psalm 139:1-4

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts." - Isaiah 55:8-9

"For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."" - Romans 9:15

In all reality, it comes down to this...who are we to question who God is or what God does? If God says it is mercy, it is mercy. If God says it is just, it is just. If we question God's mercy, there's a problem with our view on God and who God really is, not a problem with God or God's Word.

I imagine the major issue you are having is failing to realize that mercy isn't just shown by sparing someone's life. And when someone is killed in the Old Testament, you fail to realize that God is still showing mercy to someone.
 
Upvote 0

TommySoda

Active Member
Apr 14, 2018
159
39
29
NY
✟37,154.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
God's mercy is abundant in the Old Testament. From the very beginning, God clothed Adam and Eve after they have sinned and God protected the life of Cain after he murdered his own brother. God has shown Israel mercy all throughout the Old Testament. God also judges and punishes. We see that all throughout the Old Testament as well. Just the mere act of warning people is showing mercy. This is also found all throughout the Old Testament.

The most obvious that comes when you read the Bible in its entirety: the cross. Those whom you read about in the Old Testament were also saved by Christ and what He has done on the cross.

For a more deeper study, when God commands the death of entire cities, He is sparing the Israelites from idolatry, showing even more mercy. In fact, we see the result of them disobeying God's command when they spare some: they become idolatrous with foreign gods.

What I believe may be of help, adjust your perspective. What you may view as mercy may not align with what God says mercy actually is. Your view of justice may also fall short of God's justice.

"O LORD, you have searched me and known me! You know when I sit down and when I rise up; you discern my thoughts from afar. You search out my path and my lying down and are acquainted with all my ways. Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O LORD, you know it altogether." - Psalm 139:1-4

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts." - Isaiah 55:8-9

"For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."" - Romans 9:15

In all reality, it comes down to this...who are we to question who God is or what God does? If God says it is mercy, it is mercy. If God says it is just, it is just. If we question God's mercy, there's a problem with our view on God and who God really is, not a problem with God or God's Word.

I imagine the major issue you are having is failing to realize that mercy isn't just shown by sparing someone's life. And when someone is killed in the Old Testament, you fail to realize that God is still showing mercy to someone.
I didn't say there were verses not describing his mercy but that's what it just is descriptions. We rarely see actual examples of wrath being due to mercy. Most of the Old Testament is destruction/wrath/death.
 
Upvote 0

Yahkov

Active Member
Jul 18, 2019
185
59
30
Texas
✟13,852.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I didn't say there were verses not describing his mercy but that's what it just is descriptions. We rarely see actual examples of wrath being due to mercy. Most of the Old Testament is destruction/wrath/death.

"Then David said to Gad, "I am in great distress. Let me fall into the hand of the LORD, for his mercy is very great, but do not let me fall into the hand of man."" - 1 Chronicles 21:13

Those who lived during the Old Testament times, in the example given a major contributor to the Old Testament, did not struggle in seeing the mercy of God. This in itself should speak volumes.

God has shown mercy in Genesis, the first chapters as I have already pointed out. Despite Ishmael being sent away, God showed him mercy by blessing him and his descendants. God showed the Israelites mercy by delivering them out of slavery. Despite the Israelites worshipping a golden calf, God still was true to His promise to the Israelites, another display of mercy. God does not change and the descendants of Jacob are not consumed, another display of mercy. God sent prophets to Israel making up for the majority of the Old Testament writings, warning them of destruction if they do not repent and blessings if they repent, another display of mercy. If you read the book of Esther and the books preceding, you also come to realize that God is showing the Jews all throughout the Persian empire mercy by sparing their slaughter, even though the Jews should have been in Jerusalem rebuilding the city. I can keep going on with more examples.

What I feel like is happening here is you are perhaps equating consequences with the lack of mercy.

If someone murders someone in modern times, he or she is sent to prison for a very long time or perhaps given the death penalty. Our justice system doesn't view such a case and dismiss their offense because they say they are sorry and promise they will not do it again. Jesus even spoke on something similar...

"Come to terms quickly with your accuser while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison. Truly, I say to you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny." - Matthew 5:25-26

Lastly, I imagine since you say you are a Christian, you believe Jesus is God. If that's the case, remember what Jesus said...

"Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am."" - John 8:58

This alone should help you realize that you have a faulty view on the mercy of God. I'd find it very hard to argue that Jesus was not merciful, which in turns also means, I find it very hard that to argue that God is not merciful. Without God's mercy, there is no such thing as Christianity. By God's mercy, you are called to be a Christian. And remember this, if you don't struggle to find God's mercy in the New Testament, remember that Jesus' birth and what He did fulfilled Old Testament prophecy. So if you believe the Old Testament lacks God's mercy, you are in a very awkward stance.

Some questions I'd like to ask you...if God is not merciful as you have titled the thread, how is it that you are a Christian? Why is it you call yourself a Christian? What even makes someone a Christian?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

TommySoda

Active Member
Apr 14, 2018
159
39
29
NY
✟37,154.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
"Then David said to Gad, "I am in great distress. Let me fall into the hand of the LORD, for his mercy is very great, but do not let me fall into the hand of man."" - 1 Chronicles 21:13

Those who lived during the Old Testament times, in the example given a major contributor to the Old Testament, did not struggle in seeing the mercy of God. This in itself should speak volumes.

God has shown mercy in Genesis, the first chapters as I have already pointed out. Despite Ishmael being sent away, God showed him mercy by blessing him and his descendants. God showed the Israelites mercy by delivering them out of slavery. Despite the Israelites worshipping a golden calf, God still was true to His promise to the Israelites, another display of mercy. God does not change and the descendants of Jacob are not consumed, another display of mercy. God sent prophets to Israel making up for the majority of the Old Testament writings, warning them of destruction if they do not repent and blessings if they repent, another display of mercy. If you read the book of Esther and the books preceding, you also come to realize that God is showing the Jews all throughout the Persian empire mercy by sparing their slaughter, even though the Jews should have been in Jerusalem rebuilding the city. I can keep going on with more examples.

What I feel like is happening here is you are perhaps equating consequences with the lack of mercy.

If someone murders someone in modern times, he or she is sent to prison for a very long time or perhaps given the death penalty. Our justice system doesn't view such a case and dismiss their offense because they say they are sorry and promise they will not do it again. Jesus even spoke on something similar...

"Come to terms quickly with your accuser while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison. Truly, I say to you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny." - Matthew 5:25-26

Lastly, I imagine since you say you are a Christian, you believe Jesus is God. If that's the case, remember what Jesus said...

"Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am."" - John 8:58

This alone should help you realize that you have a faulty view on the mercy of God. I'd find it very hard to argue that Jesus was not merciful, which in turns also means, I find it very hard that to argue that God is not merciful. Without God's mercy, there is no such thing as Christianity. By God's mercy, you are called to be a Christian. And remember this, if you don't struggle to find God's mercy in the New Testament, remember that Jesus' birth and what He did fulfilled Old Testament prophecy. So if you believe the Old Testament lacks God's mercy, you are in a very awkward stance.

Some questions I'd like to ask you...if God is not merciful as you have titled the thread, how is it that you are a Christian? Why is it you call yourself a Christian? What even makes someone a Christian?
What makes someone a Christian is following the Christian faith. I don't think it has much to do with thinking God is merciful or not. I also believe saying that me thinking mercy=/= lack of consequences is a straw man. Either God gives people what they deserve or he is merciful (reducing consequences), it can't be both. It seems in the Bible (besides God's dealing with Isreal) if you were condemned to die/be punished that was the end of the story. Theres very times God goes back on his judgment of sin.
 
Upvote 0

Yahkov

Active Member
Jul 18, 2019
185
59
30
Texas
✟13,852.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
What makes someone a Christian is following the Christian faith. I don't think it has much to do with thinking God is merciful or not. I also believe saying that me thinking mercy=/= lack of consequences is a straw man. Either God gives people what they deserve or he is merciful (reducing consequences), it can't be both. It seems in the Bible (besides God's dealing with Isreal) if you were condemned to die/be punished that was the end of the story. Theres very times God goes back on his judgment of sin.

What is the Christian faith?

*Hint* It has everything to do with God's mercy.
 
Upvote 0

TommySoda

Active Member
Apr 14, 2018
159
39
29
NY
✟37,154.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
What is the Christian faith?

*Hint* It has everything to do with God's mercy.
Being a Christian is simply believing the Bible and God and accepting Jesus as your lord. I don't think it has much to do with your personal opinions on God's characters. There are plenty of people who don't see God in a merciful light and simple answer is because mercy takes a backseat in the OT and it's mostly full of wrath, punishment and death.
 
Upvote 0

Yahkov

Active Member
Jul 18, 2019
185
59
30
Texas
✟13,852.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Being a Christian is simply believing the Bible and God and accepting Jesus as your lord. I don't think it has much to do with your personal opinions on God's characters. There are plenty of people who don't see God in a merciful light and simple answer is because mercy takes a backseat in the OT and it's mostly full of wrath, punishment and death.

Did Jesus not speak on the mercy of God? Did God not send Jesus to save us? Being a Christian is about a relationship with God. And you nailed it with this, "I don't think it has much to do with your personal opinions on God's characters." The fact that God is merciful is not a matter of my own personal opinion. My personal opinion does not matter. What matters is what the Bible teaches. And since you say Christians are people who believe the Bible and God and accept Jesus is Lord, are you doing so?

"Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful." - Luke 6:36

A teaching from Jesus, whom you say Christians accept as Lord, and of whom He speaks of a characteristic of the Father: merciful. Yet you create a thread saying you are a Christian and can't get behind the notion that God is merciful?

Furthermore, you already agreed that there are verses describing God's mercy. Yet still you can't get behind the notion. If you say Christians believe the Bible and you call yourself a Christian, why are you questioning this?

Quite frankly what is happening here is you are saying you are a Christian whom you defined as one who believes the Bible, God, and accepts Jesus as Lord, so I'll hold this conversation to the standard you have laid. You don't believe the Bible because you are questioning God's mercy when you have already identified that there are descriptions in the Bible of God's mercy. You may believe in God but you fail to realize that He is indeed merciful, showing that you don't know God. You say Christians accept Jesus as Lord but you yourself are questioning a huge chunk of His teachings: the mercy of God. If Jesus is our Lord, we don't question Him.

Lastly, those people you mention that don't see God in a merciful light, I agree there are a lot of them. They tend to not be Christians.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

grasping the after wind

That's grasping after the wind
Jan 18, 2010
19,458
6,354
Clarence Center NY USA
✟237,637.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I would define mercy as not getting the punishment you deserve. It doesn't exactly mean getting off scott free but maybe not getting the full 100% wrath you're going to. I mean what's the point in calling God merciful is everyone got what they deserved in the Bible?

You have defined it correctly IMO. Do you deserve eternal life? If you do, then God is not merciful to give it to you. If you have not earned eternal life, i.e. you don't deserve it, and God gives it to you as a gift, then is not God merciful. If you sin and repent does God punish you or forgive you? If you sin seven times seven times and ask for forgiveness God will forgive you each time . How does that not qualify as merciful?
 
Upvote 0

Yahkov

Active Member
Jul 18, 2019
185
59
30
Texas
✟13,852.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Honestly none of that I've just recently read the Bible, digested and came to a conclusion. I was a christian who was always under the conclusion God was merciful. I'm not doubting anything in the Bible. It's just I can't believe he is merciful and literally every other story he's killing someone. I have yet to find one story that displays mercy besides maybe the Book of Jonah and some rare times where Judah/Israel repented.

This actually explains a lot. I want to encourage you to keep reading the Bible. Nobody reads the Bible and gets it 100% their first go.

God sent His Son to die for your sins, you could not do what He has done. You can not meet the standard God has laid forth in the law. For this, God attributes your faith as righteousness so that the punishment you deserve (hell) is spared from you and instead you receive the free gift of Salvation (eternal life) that is through Christ Jesus. God loves you and God offers you forgiveness. God wants to conform you to the image of His Son and He will not forsake you. Trust in the Lord and seek Him first. And remember, all things work for the good of those who love God and are called according to His purpose.

God loves you, He sent you His Son. Confess your sins to Him, asking for forgiveness. He does forgive.
 
Upvote 0

Dave G.

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
4,629
5,307
73
Sandiwich
✟314,303.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Right, way back at the beginning of this thread I realized too that Tommy was new to the bible, it can and usually does take years to start really absorbing grace and mercy, especially back in the OT. And it helps to have some instruction, which he does not or didn't when this thread started. So I backed away from the thread. It could be a simple matter not even that he isn't getting it, doesn't want to or what ever else, but can't get it yet.

So with that I'll go back in the shadows. I'll pray the Lord unveils his eyes and opens his ears meantime.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Anguspure

Kaitiaki Peacemakers NZ
Supporter
Jun 28, 2011
3,865
1,769
New Zealand
✟125,935.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Cute analogy, I suppose, but off the mark. Ask any abused child if their mother’s mercy endures forever after the blissful womb stage.
Or even within the womb in this murderous world.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Anguspure

Kaitiaki Peacemakers NZ
Supporter
Jun 28, 2011
3,865
1,769
New Zealand
✟125,935.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Those souls are with god now. They don’t speak. I am talking about real people who can speak.
I know what you mean and hope you are correct. At least those who can speak have a voice, and I for one would encourage that voice to be loud and clear.
I come from a country that has one of the highest child abuse rates in the world, to our shame.
Am with you Sister.
 
Upvote 0

Strong in Him

Great is thy faithfulness
Supporter
Mar 4, 2005
27,769
7,915
NW England
✟1,041,367.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Being a Christian is simply believing the Bible and God

God, and the Bible because it is his book, both say that God is merciful.

and accepting Jesus as your lord.

Lord and Saviour. It means admitting that we can't get to heaven by our own efforts, no matter how many good deeds we do or how many times we go to church; that Jesus offered his life as a sacrifice for us, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, John 1:29, 1 Peter 1:19-20, Matthew 26:28, John 10:11, John 10:18-19. He was made sin for us, 2 Corinthians 5:21 and took our punishment, Isaiah 53:5-6, Romans 6:23.

I don't think it has much to do with your personal opinions on God's characters.

What about the Bible's statements on God's character?
Mankind sinned against God. He would have been perfectly justified in killing Adam and Eve and starting again - creating humans who were puppets, did as they were told without question, were incapable of disobeying God and had no choice but to worship him. But he didn't do that. Adam and Eve were ashamed because they were naked, so God made them clothes out of animal skin; he killed an animal for them, and let them live.
The bible says that Jesus died for sinners; people who hated God and rebelled against, and disobeyed, him. Jesus died so that these people - all of us - might be forgiven and reconciled to God. When Abraham was going to offer his son, Isaac, as a sacrifice to God, Isaac said, "we have the wood for the fire but where is the lamb for the sacrifice?" Abraham replied, "God himself will provide the lamb for the sacrifice", Genesis 22:8. That was a foreshadowing of the cross. God himself did provide the sacrifice; himself.

There are plenty of people who don't see God in a merciful light

Sadly, yes. There are also many people who see God as a celestial Father Christmas, or slot machine - someone who is there to give them what they want when they want it, and if they feel that he hasn't, they won't believe in him.

and simple answer is because mercy takes a backseat in the OT and it's mostly full of wrath, punishment and death.

That's not a simple answer, a) because there is mercy shown in the OT and b) because the OT is only half of the story.
Sounds like they may be determined not to believe in a merciful God, and/or won't read the NT
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

mmksparbud

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2011
17,312
6,821
73
Las Vegas
✟255,978.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
Just look at the Old Testament there is no mercy. Those who are told they are going to die die (Davids son, Achan etc). The Old Testament seemed like a very much "one strike rule you're out". It seems God rarely spared lives besides the rare occasions Isreal/Judah repented. Moving to the New Testament I see cases like ananias and sapphira. It just seems like to me there's way more death than mercy/lives and judgment being spared. If anyone has any counter argument verses feel free but.


I find your statements very hard to read. They read like someone who is very angry/hurt and simply does not want to see the mercy of God for I can not understand how anyone can get past Adam and Eve and not see the mercy of God. You sound like I did as a child and into adulthood---angry at God for everything that had happened to me. I did not try to hide my dislike of Him by calling myself a Christian. I verbally told Him to leave me alone, I was quite welling to go to hell, thank you very much.
It took me years to face the fact that everyone has free will and that God will not force anyone to do the right thing. The things that happened to me where the result of my father and others exercising their free will. This is not yet heaven where there is no sin.
Love is obligated to let the other individual go against your wishes. Otherwise, it is not love, but force.
At the garden God said that if they ate of that one tree they would die. That is it. You sin you die. He gave them everything else in the garden, except that one thing. God is pure and holy and His eyes can not endure the sight of sin. It draws a veil between His creation and Himself. We can no longer see Him as clearly and we can no longer stand to be in His presence. After the garden, God could no longer show Himself to His creations, for they could not bear Him. Instead of killing them on the spot, He took the life of an animal, and clothed them. The animal was only a temporary fix, they would eventually have to die as do we all. But He set up a way for us to come back to Him with full privileges once again. His Son would one day pay the price of that sin, death, so we could return to Him.
Yet you can not see His mercy?
One sin entitles you to permanent death---period. That is it. God is a consuming fire---He is the sun, without the blood of Jesus covering us, we are consumed. It is not the wrath of God that kills us anymore than it is the wrath of the sun that destroys a drop of water that lands on it's surface. That is just what happens without protection. There is not one single soul that deserves to be alive, yet, here we are. Sin after sin after sin, here we are. Yet you see no mercy. Had God let those pagan tribes continue they would have brought all the Jews into their practices and polluted everryone around them. God had to protect the Jewish line froim which the Messiah would come. Satan wanted them all to die.
You say it is not about knowing the character of God---but it most certainly is. If you do not know God, He will not know you. It is His character that we must see in order to love him, in order to see who He is. It is how we love anyone or anything---by who they are. I loved my husband because of who he was, my dog because of his personality. Without you knowing God, you can not love Him, you can not see Him.
We have a love letter from Him, a revealer of who He is---the bible. Do not open it without asking the Holy Spirit to show God's character to you. It is there, ask to see Him, and do not listen to the lies of Satan. God is love, He is not just loving, He is love. Took me a long time to see it. I am grateful I did.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Strong in Him
Upvote 0