This is your time for questioning my friend.
I stand by my original scenario. Murder. Criminal intent.
I read your clarification above. Thank you for expanding the hypothetical straw man.
People going on killing sprees show the nature of their heart. In this case those committing atrocities would be evidencing the darkness of their heart and not exhibiting being the workmanship of God (Ephesians 2:10).
But why apply this to only Dr White? His visible walk with Christ is solid. He has not murdered. You ask “What if?” He hasn’t.
We can insert anyone into your straw man, but you seem to want to make Dr White who lives a Christian life be something he obviously is not. Why not give us an example of someone who has murdered or committed atrocities.
Why not have a less severe standard like corruption:
- Pope Stephen VI (896–897), who had his predecessor Pope Formosus exhumed, tried, de-fingered, briefly reburied, and thrown in the Tiber.<ref name=cham>{{cite b gave land to a mistress, murdered several people, and was killed by a man who caught him in bed with his wife.
- Pope Benedict IX (1032–1044, 1045, 1047–1048), who "sold" the Papacy.
- Pope Boniface VIII (1294–1303), who is lampooned in Dante's Divine Comedy.
- Pope Urban VI (1378–1389), who complained that he did not hear enough screaming when Cardinals who had conspired against him were tortured .[1]:153
- Pope Alexander VI (1492–1503), a Borgia, who was guilty of nepotism and whose unattended corpse swelled until it could barely fit in a coffin.[1]:204
- Pope Leo X (1513–1521), a spendthrift member of the Medici family who once spent 1/7 of his predecessors' reserves on a single ceremony.[1]:218
- Pope Clement VII (1523–1534), also a Medici, whose power-politicking with France, Spain, and Germany got Rome sacked.
The example in response would be what if Pope Francis committed atrocities? Is he still the Pope? Is there any earthly power on earth that can remove him? Or do you follow the words of St Catherine of Siena.
"Even if [the Pope were an incarnate devil], we ought not to raise up our heads against him, but calmly lie down to rest on his bosom. ... He who rebels against our Father is condemned to death, for that which we do to him we do to Christ: we honor Christ if we honor the Pope; we dishonor Christ if we dishonor the Pope." ~St. Catherine of Siena
Should have pro-abortion Ted Kennedy received a Catholic funeral. Should Nancy Pelosi receive communion. On the visible side it seems the Catholic Church has little moral ground to stand on to promote hypothetical straw men when they have real life moral dilemmas by their own CCC and canon law.
I think you need to provide an actual example of someone who claimed to be Christian, walked a Christian life then committed an atrocity or murdered and then prove such a person was elect to begin with. You can’t. That’s why the hypothetical.
This is what the Apostle tells us:
Ephesians 1: NASB
3Blessed
be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly
places in Christ,
4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
5He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,
6to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.
7In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace
8which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight
9He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him
10with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times,
that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him
11also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,
12to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory.
13In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of
God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory. (NASB)
And here:
Romans 8: NASB
28And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to
His purpose.
29For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined
to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
30and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
31What then shall we say to these things? If God
is for us, who
is against us?
32He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?
33Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies;
34who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us.
35Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36Just as it is written,
“FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH ALL DAY LONG;
WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED.”
37But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.
38For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
39nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
