Vicarious Law-keeping?

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Okay, yes, and to reply to your comment, a true offence is only if you intend it to be, not if it was found to be offensive but was intended for good out of love.

Jesus Himself was offensive to many. His teachings are offensive if anyone teaches them. To live them truly is to be persecuted, as well. For all who live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. Yes, there are times where we can be as innocent as doves and as wise as serpents. But we are called to lead a life like that of Christ. It's not easy, but Jesus is so worth it (Especially for what He has done for us).
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Nowhere did I say that we shouldn't speak the truth.
But there are times that even Jesus remained silent even when others wanted Him to speak.
But yes, I understand fully that all who live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution, and even religious men will those who are true followers of Christ.
I 'agree', and was referring to the possible thought that just because the truth offends someone, would be a reason to not speak the truth. The 'limits' we have are all directed by Yahuweh (God). (concerning 'how' and 'when' and 'how much')
i.e. for clarification.

While we are to be kind both in deeds and words, there is a limit in how we speak the truth in love. The truth can also be offensive because it can divide.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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It's not easy, but Jesus is so worth it (Especially for what He has done for us).
AND,
as Jesus says: Yahuweh's Commandments are NOT burdensome ! (amazing ! ) (so it is "easier" than people think, even though it may result in immediate execution, or just in beatings and arrests and imprisonment :) ......

"For the JOY SET BEFORE US...." better to walk self-sacrificially with Jesus as He Says, wherever He Goes, than to try to 'save' our own soul-life or possessions or whatever ....
 
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AND,
as Jesus says: Yahuweh's Commandments are NOT burdensome ! (amazing ! ) (so it is "easier" than people think, even though it may result in immediate execution, or just in beatings and arrests and imprisonment :) ......

"For the JOY SET BEFORE US...." better to walk self-sacrificially with Jesus as He Says, wherever He Goes, than to try to 'save' our own soul-life or possessions or whatever ....

From a certain perspective, I agree.
But the New Testament also gives us a command that says,

Endure hardness as a good soldier of Jesus Christ; For no man that battles [for Christ] entangles himself with the affairs of this life in order so that they may please Him who hath chosen them to be a soldier (2 Timothy 2:3-4).
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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From a certain perspective, I agree.
But the New Testament also gives us a command that says,

Endure hardness as a good soldier of Jesus Christ; For no man that battles [for Christ] entangles himself with the affairs of this life in order so that they may please Him who hath chosen them to be a soldier (2 Timothy 2:3-4).
Yes, True - And This does not disagree nor change what I've thought and believed and posted.
 
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If you do not have Christ's imputed righteousness you do not have any righteousness and will not enter heaven.

Right, the imputation of Christ's righteousness is continued in 1 John 1:7, too. Right?
 
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You are confusing theological categories. 1 John 1:7 is about perseverance of the saints.

But the word "if" is in the verse. Doesn't sound like a guarantee to me if the verse has the word "if" in it.
 
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JM

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But the word "if" is in the verse. Doesn't sound like a guarantee to me if the verse has the word "if" in it.
God's love is not contingent upon our deeds. You cannot earn God's love.

Yours in the Lord,

jm
 
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God's love is not contingent upon our deeds. You cannot earn God's love.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

I want you to give me a word for word commentary on what 1 John 1:7 says. Please go into more detail on explaining the word "if" in that verse, too.
 
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I want you to give me a word for word commentary on what 1 John 1:7 says. Please go into more detail on explaining the word "if" in that verse, too.

You first.

Yours in the Lord,

jm
 
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You first.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

It would be my pleasure. I love 1 John 1:7.

1 John 1:7 says,

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:7).

Some context:

5 "This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
(1 John 1:7).​

Okay, let's take the first part of the verse:

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light,..." (1 John 1:7).​

The word "if" suggests a possibility or alternative to doing something else. For example: Rick could say to Bob, I will show up your house tomorrow IF I get all my work done around the house. So the word "if" suggests a possibility and not a guarantee. 1 John 1:7 does not start off talking about those who are regenerated will walk in the light as he is in the light. John is talking to believers and he says, "IF" we walk in the light. Compared to what? What is the alternative to not walking in the light?

The previous verse is the alternative to not walking in the light.

1 John 1:6 says,
"If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth" (1 John 1:6).

This sounds very similar to 1 John 2:4 that says,
"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." (1 John 2:4).

To know him (the Lord) sounds like having fellowship with him (the Lord). Both 1 John 1:6, and 1 John 2:4 talk about lying and the truth not being in that person by what they are doing (i.e. walking in darkness and not keeping his commandments). What is the truth that is not in them? Jesus. For Jesus says I am the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6). Jesus even said this before in John 15:10.

"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." (John 15:10).

"But if we walk in the light,..." (1 John 1:7).

The word "we" is referring to us believers.
In 1 John 1:1-4, John uses the word "we" in his opening letter, and he is definitely referring to himself and other believers or apostles he most likely knows.
He desires to have fellowship with the believers he is writing to. These are believers that John is writing to because he calls them as 'brethren" (1 John 2:7). He also tells them, "I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake. I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning." (1 John 2:12-13). So these are definitely believers that John is writing to here.

"But if we walk in the light,..." (1 John 1:7).

The word "light" is referring to "GOD." For 1 John 1:5 says, "God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." The question we must ask from 1 John 1:5 is, "What is the darkness that is not in GOD?

1 John 1:6 says, "we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth" But this does not help us to identify what darkness is yet. It merely tells us that we (professing believers) say we know Him, and we walk in darkness, we lie and do not the truth.

So what is this darkness?

1 John 2 gives us the answer or key.
full

So as we can see from the highlighted verses above in verse 9, and verse 11 in 1 John 2, we know that "hating one's brother" is to be "in darkness"; And verse 11 adds that "hating one's brother" is "walking in darkness."

So the darkness that is not in GOD = hating one's brother.

1 John 3:10 even confirms this.

"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."
(1 John 3:10).​

So we know those who are truly of GOD vs. those who are of the children of the devil by the fact that the person who does not righteousness is not of GOD, and neither if they love not their brother. Meaning, they hate their brother.

So if one hates their brother, they are not of GOD.

1 John 3:15 nails this point home even more.

"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:15).​

It says whoever hates his brother is like a murderer, and no murderer has no eternal life abiding in them. So if one hates their brother, they have no eternal life or salvation.

So what is "walk in the light" mean in 1 John 1:7?

full


Seeing that walking in the darkness is hating your brother, and loving your brother is abiding in the light according to 1 John 2:10-11, it is easy to conclude that "walk in the light" in 1 John 1:7 is "to love your brother."

So far we have,

"But if we walk in the light,..." (1 John 1:7).

My commentary below is in blue brackets:

""But if [suggesting a possibility and not a guarantee] we [believers] walk in the light [to "love our brother" is abiding in the light; The light being representative here of GOD],..." (1 John 1:7).

In other words, this part of 1 John 1:7 is essentially saying, "if we believers love the brethren abiding in the light of GOD,..."

The next part of the verse says,

"But if we walk in the light, ...as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another,..." (1 John 1:7).

We know "the light" is GOD (because 1 John 1:5 says GOD is light).
GOD generally refers to GOD the Father, although it can refer to the other members of the Trinity or the Godhead.

1 John 1:3 says,
"That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ."

Jesus says, "Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake." (John 14:11).

The "he" that is in the light is Jesus. The word "he" here refers to "Jesus," and the word "light" is referring to the "Father." In other words, 1 John 1:7 is saying up to this point,

"If we walk in the light of God [by loving our brother], as Christ does within God the Father, we have fellowship with one another..."

In short, if we love our brother, we have fellowship with both God the Father (Who is the Light), and Jesus Christ.

Now, let's look at the next part of the verse.

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, ...and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:7).

Okay, this part of the verse is pretty straight forward in what it says and it does not need any decoding. We know that being cleansed of all sin by the blood of Jesus relates to salvation. But if you really need a verse, Romans 5:9 says,

"Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him." (Romans 5:9).

So in 1 John 1:7, being cleansed of all sin by the blood of Jesus Christ relates to salvation.

"In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;" (Ephesians 1:7).

But 1 John 1:7 gives us the proper way to continue in the salvation of Christ or His blood after we are saved by the grace of Christ.

The first half of the verse says we have to love our brother and as a result (the second half says) we will have fellowship with Christ and the Father, and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us of all sin.

Not loving one's brother means we abide in darkness (1 John 2:9-11), and or it means we are not of God. Loving your brother is a part of God's commands in the New Testament (See: 1 John 3:23). For John's whole point is about loving your brother in his 1st epistle. John says if we do not love our brother, we are not of God (1 John 3:10). John says if we hate our brother, no eternal life abides in us (1 John 3:15). Loving your brother is not an automatic thing always. It takes work as we see in James 2. The brethren did not show love or favor to the poor brethren and as a result they broke the royal law of love (i.e. to love your neighbor). James never said that they were unregenerate or never saved. James is telling them that they are missing something besides just having a belief alone in Christ. James made a point on this is driven home even more in the fact that this kind of action by them meant that they needed to show faith that was evidence by works of faith. For a faith without works is dead. For even the demons believe and tremble. For James says in James 2:24 that we are justified by works and not by faith alone. Yes, we are saved by God's grace through faith without works in the Justification Process by receiving the gift of God's grace by exhibiting proper faith in Christ (i.e. accepting Jesus as one's Savior, believing in His death and resurrection on our behalf, and seeking His forgiveness by way of prayer to Him), but our faith is not a mere mental acknowledgment of a certain set of facts about the Lord. Faith has to hit the heart, and it leads to right actions. It breaks a person whereby they are forever changed and they are a new creation in the way they think, and live. But some think that faith is easy believism or an acknowledgment to a certain set of facts. Some think this way and they borrow a little from the Sanctification category to make their belief alone-ism not look so morally bad. But they will never say Sanctification is for salvation (Even though the Scriptures teach that very thing like with 1 John 1:7).
 
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It would be my pleasure. I love 1 John 1:7.

1 John 1:7 says,

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:7).

Some context:

5 "This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
(1 John 1:7).​

Okay, let's take the first part of the verse:

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light,..." (1 John 1:7).​

The word "if" suggests a possibility or alternative to doing something else. For example: Rick could say to Bob, I will show up your house tomorrow IF I get all my work done around the house. So the word "if" suggests a possibility and not a guarantee. 1 John 1:7 does not start off talking about those who are regenerated will walk in the light as he is in the light. John is talking to believers and he says, "IF" we walk in the light. Compared to what? What is the alternative to not walking in the light?

The previous verse is the alternative to not walking in the light.

1 John 1:6 says,
"If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth" (1 John 1:6).

This sounds very similar to 1 John 2:4 that says,
"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." (1 John 2:4).

To know him (the Lord) sounds like having fellowship with him (the Lord). Both 1 John 1:6, and 1 John 2:4 talk about lying and the truth not being in that person by what they are doing (i.e. walking in darkness and not keeping his commandments). What is the truth that is not in them? Jesus. For Jesus says I am the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6). Jesus even said this before in John 15:10.

"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." (John 15:10).

"But if we walk in the light,..." (1 John 1:7).

The word "we" is referring to us believers.
In 1 John 1:1-4, John uses the word "we" in his opening letter, and he is definitely referring to himself and other believers or apostles he most likely knows.
He desires to have fellowship with the believers he is writing to. These are believers that John is writing to because he calls them as 'brethren" (1 John 2:7). He also tells them, "I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake. I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning." (1 John 2:12-13). So these are definitely believers that John is writing to here.

"But if we walk in the light,..." (1 John 1:7).

The word "light" is referring to "GOD." For 1 John 1:5 says, "God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." The question we must ask from 1 John 1:5 is, "What is the darkness that is not in GOD?

1 John 1:6 says, "we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth" But this does not help us to identify what darkness is yet. It merely tells us that we (professing believers) say we know Him, and we walk in darkness, we lie and do not the truth.

So what is this darkness?

1 John 2 gives us the answer or key.
full

So as we can see from the highlighted verses above in verse 9, and verse 11 in 1 John 2, we know that "hating one's brother" is to be "in darkness"; And verse 11 adds that "hating one's brother" is "walking in darkness."

So the darkness that is not in GOD = hating one's brother.

1 John 3:10 even confirms this.

"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."
(1 John 3:10).​

So we know those who are truly of GOD vs. those who are of the children of the devil by the fact that the person who does not righteousness is not of GOD, and neither if they love not their brother. Meaning, they hate their brother.

So if one hates their brother, they are not of GOD.

1 John 3:15 nails this point home even more.

"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:15).​

It says whoever hates his brother is like a murderer, and no murderer has no eternal life abiding in them. So if one hates their brother, they have no eternal life or salvation.

So what is "walk in the light" mean in 1 John 1:7?

full


Seeing that walking in the darkness is hating your brother, and loving your brother is abiding in the light according to 1 John 2:10-11, it is easy to conclude that "walk in the light" in 1 John 1:7 is "to love your brother."

So far we have,

"But if we walk in the light,..." (1 John 1:7).

My commentary below is in blue brackets:

""But if [suggesting a possibility and not a guarantee] we [believers] walk in the light [to "love our brother" is abiding in the light; The light being representative here of GOD],..." (1 John 1:7).

In other words, this part of 1 John 1:7 is essentially saying, "if we believers love the brethren abiding in the light of GOD,..."

The next part of the verse says,

"But if we walk in the light, ...as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another,..." (1 John 1:7).

We know "the light" is GOD (because 1 John 1:5 says GOD is light).
GOD generally refers to GOD the Father, although it can refer to the other members of the Trinity or the Godhead.

1 John 1:3 says,
"That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ."

Jesus says, "Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake." (John 14:11).

The "he" that is in the light is Jesus. The word "he" here refers to "Jesus," and the word "light" is referring to the "Father." In other words, 1 John 1:7 is saying up to this point,

"If we walk in the light of God [by loving our brother], as Christ does within God the Father, we have fellowship with one another..."

In short, if we love our brother, we have fellowship with both God the Father (Who is the Light), and Jesus Christ.

Now, let's look at the next part of the verse.

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, ...and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:7).

Okay, this part of the verse is pretty straight forward in what it says and it does not need any decoding. We know that being cleansed of all sin by the blood of Jesus relates to salvation. But if you really need a verse, Romans 5:9 says,

"Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him." (Romans 5:9).

So in 1 John 1:7, being cleansed of all sin by the blood of Jesus Christ relates to salvation.

"In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;" (Ephesians 1:7).

But 1 John 1:7 gives us the proper way to continue in the salvation of Christ or His blood after we are saved by the grace of Christ.

The first half of the verse says we have to love our brother and as a result (the second half says) we will have fellowship with Christ and the Father, and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us of all sin.

Not loving one's brother means we abide in darkness (1 John 2:9-11), and or it means we are not of God. Loving your brother is a part of God's commands in the New Testament (See: 1 John 3:23). For John's whole point is about loving your brother in his 1st epistle. John says if we do not love our brother, we are not of God (1 John 3:10). John says if we hate our brother, no eternal life abides in us (1 John 3:15). Loving your brother is not an automatic thing always. It takes work as we see in James 2. The brethren did not show love or favor to the poor brethren and as a result they broke the royal law of love (i.e. to love your neighbor). James never said that they were unregenerate or never saved. James is telling them that they are missing something besides just having a belief alone in Christ. James made a point on this is driven home even more in the fact that this kind of action by them meant that they needed to show faith that was evidence by works of faith. For a faith without works is dead. For even the demons believe and tremble. For James says in James 2:24 that we are justified by works and not by faith alone. Yes, we are saved by God's grace through faith without works in the Justification Process by receiving the gift of God's grace by exhibiting proper faith in Christ (i.e. accepting Jesus as one's Savior, believing in His death and resurrection on our behalf, and seeking His forgiveness by way of prayer to Him), but our faith is not a mere mental acknowledgment of a certain set of facts about the Lord. Faith has to hit the heart, and it leads to right actions. It breaks a person whereby they are forever changed and they are a new creation in the way they think, and live. But some think that faith is easy believism or an acknowledgment to a certain set of facts. Some think this way and they borrow a little from the Sanctification category to make their belief alone-ism not look so morally bad. But they will never say Sanctification is for salvation (Even though the Scriptures teach that very thing like with 1 John 1:7).

So what now? Shall we argue? :hug: That would be unloving and I wouldn't be walking in Light. It's a declarative warning, that's all. You are making a mountain out of a mole hill and inserting works to maintain salvation in place of grace.

Yours in the Lord,

jm
 
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So what now? Shall we argue? that would be unloving and I wouldn't be walking in Light. It's a declarative warning, that's all. You are making a mountain out of a mole hill and inserting works to maintain salvation in place of grace.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

Well, I went first, and now it is your turn. Surely if what you say is true, then there should be some kind of alternative explanation to what 1 John 1:7 really says and the context should support that. But as I suspected, you did not provide a commentary for 1 John 1:7 (Which supports the surrounding verses). Why? Because there is no interpretation on 1 John 1:7 that fits your view that makes any rational sense. It doesn't exist. Sure, I have heard the standard cookie cutter Eternal Security response for 1 John 1:7 and it just does not make any sense in light of what the verse actually says and in light of what the surrounding veres plainly say. But where they failed, maybe you can prove otherwise? My guess is that is not going to happen. But I do like to be proven wrong in these instances.

Blessings to you in the Lord tonight.
 
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JM

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Well, I went first, and now it is your turn. Surely if what you say is true, then there should be some kind of alternative explanation to what 1 John 1:7 really says and the context should support that. But as I suspected, you did not provide a commentary for 1 John 1:7 (Which supports the surrounding verses). Why? Because there is no interpretation on 1 John 1:7 that fits your view that makes any rational sense. It doesn't exist. Sure, I have heard the standard cookie cutter Eternal Security response for 1 John 1:7 and it just does not make any sense in light of what the verse actually says and in light of what the surrounding veres plainly say. But where they failed, maybe you can prove otherwise? My guess is that is not going to happen. But I do like to be proven wrong in these instances.

Blessings to you in the Lord tonight.
It's a matter of perspective. I'm not a Dispensational Fundamentalist Christian so I'm not cornered into a literalistic perspective that disallows for nuances in meaning. I would contend that 1 John 1 is talking about a general warning to Christians to remain faithful, this portion is not teaching that our works help us remain saved, as your understanding logically concludes. It is important to have a proper context instead of isolating a verse for your pet doctrine. It is clear from 1 John 1 that we are deceived when we teach their is no sin in us, which your understanding forces us to conclude, for only those who never sin are saved. No, rather, we must confess that we have sinned (v. 9) and receive forgiveness. Your understanding is very narrow and based on a misunderstanding of the passage.

Not all Christians share the Dispey Fundie doctrine of "Eternal Security" as your wrongly assumed. You clearly prefer the Straw Man over the actual doctrine taught in scripture but for the reader I'll lay it out using the London Baptist Confession of Faith, 1689:

Chapter 17


PARAGRAPH 1
Those whom God has accepted in the beloved, effectually called and sanctified by his Spirit, and given the precious faith of his elect unto, can neither totally nor finally fall from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved, seeing the gifts and callings of God are without repentance, from which source he still begets and nourishes in them faith, repentance, love, joy, hope, and all the graces of the Spirit unto immortality;1 and though many storms and floods arise and beat against them, yet they shall never be able to take them off that foundation and rock which by faith they are fastened upon; notwithstanding, through unbelief and the temptations of Satan, the sensible sight of the light and love of God may for a time be clouded and obscured from them,2 yet he is still the same, and they shall be sure to be kept by the power of God unto salvation, where they shall enjoy their purchased possession, they being engraved upon the palm of his hands, and their names having been written in the book of life from all eternity.3

1 John 10:28,29; Phil. 1:6; 2 Tim. 2:19; 1 John 2:19
2 Ps. 89:31–32; 1 Cor. 11:32
3 Mal. 3:6


PARAGRAPH 2
This perseverance of the saints depends not upon their own free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election,4 flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father, upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ and union with him,5 the oath of God,6 the abiding of his Spirit, and the seed of God within them,7 and the nature of the covenant of grace;8 from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof.

4 Rom. 8:30, 9:11,16
5 Rom. 5:9, 10; John 14:19
6 Heb. 6:17–18
7 1 John 3:9
8 Jer. 32:40


PARAGRAPH 3
And though they may, through the temptation of Satan and of the world, the prevalency of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins, and for a time continue therein,9 whereby they incur God's displeasure and grieve his Holy Spirit,10 come to have their graces and comforts impaired,11 have their hearts hardened, and their consciences wounded,12 hurt and scandalize others, and bring temporal judgments upon themselves,13 yet shall they renew their repentance and be preserved through faith in Christ Jesus to the end.14

9 Matt. 26:70,72,74
10 Isa. 64:5,9; Eph. 4:30
11 Ps. 51:10,12
12 Ps. 32:3–4
13 2 Sam. 12:14
14 Luke 22:32,61–62​

The way you are misreading 1 John destroys the free and unmerited salvation Christians are given through Jesus Christ. You place the works of the sinner, the checked walk of the Saints, before the forgiveness of sin. This is utterly shameful and deceitfully wrong. Why? Because you are looking at your own self righteousness to say you and it can't. It makes no rational sense considering you dead in trespasses and sin and will continue to sin the rest of your life.

* Now, what you suggest is refuted in the same epistle, because the Greek clearly teaches that regeneration/being born again takes before before we believe.


Our salvation is not based on what we do but what Christ has done.

Yours in the Lord,

jm
 
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JM

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It would be my pleasure. I love 1 John 1:7.

1 John 1:7 says,

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:7).

Some context:

5 "This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
(1 John 1:7).​

Okay, let's take the first part of the verse:

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light,..." (1 John 1:7).​

The word "if" suggests a possibility or alternative to doing something else. For example: Rick could say to Bob, I will show up your house tomorrow IF I get all my work done around the house. So the word "if" suggests a possibility and not a guarantee. 1 John 1:7 does not start off talking about those who are regenerated will walk in the light as he is in the light. John is talking to believers and he says, "IF" we walk in the light. Compared to what? What is the alternative to not walking in the light?

The previous verse is the alternative to not walking in the light.

1 John 1:6 says,
"If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth" (1 John 1:6).

This sounds very similar to 1 John 2:4 that says,
"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." (1 John 2:4).

To know him (the Lord) sounds like having fellowship with him (the Lord). Both 1 John 1:6, and 1 John 2:4 talk about lying and the truth not being in that person by what they are doing (i.e. walking in darkness and not keeping his commandments). What is the truth that is not in them? Jesus. For Jesus says I am the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6). Jesus even said this before in John 15:10.

"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." (John 15:10).

"But if we walk in the light,..." (1 John 1:7).

The word "we" is referring to us believers.
In 1 John 1:1-4, John uses the word "we" in his opening letter, and he is definitely referring to himself and other believers or apostles he most likely knows.
He desires to have fellowship with the believers he is writing to. These are believers that John is writing to because he calls them as 'brethren" (1 John 2:7). He also tells them, "I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake. I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning." (1 John 2:12-13). So these are definitely believers that John is writing to here.

"But if we walk in the light,..." (1 John 1:7).

The word "light" is referring to "GOD." For 1 John 1:5 says, "God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." The question we must ask from 1 John 1:5 is, "What is the darkness that is not in GOD?

1 John 1:6 says, "we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth" But this does not help us to identify what darkness is yet. It merely tells us that we (professing believers) say we know Him, and we walk in darkness, we lie and do not the truth.

So what is this darkness?

1 John 2 gives us the answer or key.
full

So as we can see from the highlighted verses above in verse 9, and verse 11 in 1 John 2, we know that "hating one's brother" is to be "in darkness"; And verse 11 adds that "hating one's brother" is "walking in darkness."

So the darkness that is not in GOD = hating one's brother.

1 John 3:10 even confirms this.

"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."
(1 John 3:10).​

So we know those who are truly of GOD vs. those who are of the children of the devil by the fact that the person who does not righteousness is not of GOD, and neither if they love not their brother. Meaning, they hate their brother.

So if one hates their brother, they are not of GOD.

1 John 3:15 nails this point home even more.

"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:15).​

It says whoever hates his brother is like a murderer, and no murderer has no eternal life abiding in them. So if one hates their brother, they have no eternal life or salvation.

So what is "walk in the light" mean in 1 John 1:7?

full


Seeing that walking in the darkness is hating your brother, and loving your brother is abiding in the light according to 1 John 2:10-11, it is easy to conclude that "walk in the light" in 1 John 1:7 is "to love your brother."

So far we have,

"But if we walk in the light,..." (1 John 1:7).

My commentary below is in blue brackets:

""But if [suggesting a possibility and not a guarantee] we [believers] walk in the light [to "love our brother" is abiding in the light; The light being representative here of GOD],..." (1 John 1:7).

In other words, this part of 1 John 1:7 is essentially saying, "if we believers love the brethren abiding in the light of GOD,..."

The next part of the verse says,

"But if we walk in the light, ...as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another,..." (1 John 1:7).

We know "the light" is GOD (because 1 John 1:5 says GOD is light).
GOD generally refers to GOD the Father, although it can refer to the other members of the Trinity or the Godhead.

1 John 1:3 says,
"That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ."

Jesus says, "Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake." (John 14:11).

The "he" that is in the light is Jesus. The word "he" here refers to "Jesus," and the word "light" is referring to the "Father." In other words, 1 John 1:7 is saying up to this point,

"If we walk in the light of God [by loving our brother], as Christ does within God the Father, we have fellowship with one another..."

In short, if we love our brother, we have fellowship with both God the Father (Who is the Light), and Jesus Christ.

Now, let's look at the next part of the verse.

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, ...and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:7).

Okay, this part of the verse is pretty straight forward in what it says and it does not need any decoding. We know that being cleansed of all sin by the blood of Jesus relates to salvation. But if you really need a verse, Romans 5:9 says,

"Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him." (Romans 5:9).

So in 1 John 1:7, being cleansed of all sin by the blood of Jesus Christ relates to salvation.

"In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;" (Ephesians 1:7).

But 1 John 1:7 gives us the proper way to continue in the salvation of Christ or His blood after we are saved by the grace of Christ.

The first half of the verse says we have to love our brother and as a result (the second half says) we will have fellowship with Christ and the Father, and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us of all sin.

Not loving one's brother means we abide in darkness (1 John 2:9-11), and or it means we are not of God. Loving your brother is a part of God's commands in the New Testament (See: 1 John 3:23). For John's whole point is about loving your brother in his 1st epistle. John says if we do not love our brother, we are not of God (1 John 3:10). John says if we hate our brother, no eternal life abides in us (1 John 3:15). Loving your brother is not an automatic thing always. It takes work as we see in James 2. The brethren did not show love or favor to the poor brethren and as a result they broke the royal law of love (i.e. to love your neighbor). James never said that they were unregenerate or never saved. James is telling them that they are missing something besides just having a belief alone in Christ. James made a point on this is driven home even more in the fact that this kind of action by them meant that they needed to show faith that was evidence by works of faith. For a faith without works is dead. For even the demons believe and tremble. For James says in James 2:24 that we are justified by works and not by faith alone. Yes, we are saved by God's grace through faith without works in the Justification Process by receiving the gift of God's grace by exhibiting proper faith in Christ (i.e. accepting Jesus as one's Savior, believing in His death and resurrection on our behalf, and seeking His forgiveness by way of prayer to Him), but our faith is not a mere mental acknowledgment of a certain set of facts about the Lord. Faith has to hit the heart, and it leads to right actions. It breaks a person whereby they are forever changed and they are a new creation in the way they think, and live. But some think that faith is easy believism or an acknowledgment to a certain set of facts. Some think this way and they borrow a little from the Sanctification category to make their belief alone-ism not look so morally bad. But they will never say Sanctification is for salvation (Even though the Scriptures teach that very thing like with 1 John 1:7).
And for the record using crazy highlighted font is just annoying and distracting. Your point can be made without all the nonsense.

Thanks.

jm
 
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