Greed...The Worst of the Deadly Sins??

Greed is the cornerstone of Capitalism. Without greed, Capitalism would completely fail as an economic engine. It is greed which has resulted in some of the most abusive activities of Capitalism. It is greed which resulted in such things as the tobacco industry's willingness to promote addiction to nicotine despite the knowledge that tobacco products killed its users. It was greed which prompted the legal drug industry to market opioids as safe for consumer use. It is greed which allows corporations to put lead in the paint of children's toys.

But up until now, the greed which fuels Capitalism has largely been hazardous to only those who use the products. Things are rapidly changing, however, as the greed of capitalism has grown even more dangerous as noted in this article:

Revealed: the 20 firms behind a third of all carbon emissions

It appears that the fossil fuel industry as a whole has known since at least 1965 and quite possibly much earlier than then, that not only was Global Warming real but their industry was a major...if not sole...cause of it. Instead of doing the responsible thing and work for public information on the hazard and promote government policies to limit the usage of fossil fuels, their greed resulted in just the opposite.

As a result it isn't just those people who use their product who are in danger from that greed, but all life on the planet is primed to suffer for that greed. May Capitalism reign supreme until each and every human being on the planet has been sacrificed to the deadly god of Greed.

<zephcom steps down, picks up his soapbox and wanders away>

mkgal1 said:

What may be even worse than greed is us lying to ourselves that - in our greed - we are being generous.

I'm studying the book of Acts and that seems to have been what was so horrible about what Annanias and Sapphira had done (to the point that they immediately died, when they were found out).

Pretenders of sharing
1 However, a man named Ananias, along with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property.
2 With his wife's knowledge, he withheld some of the proceeds from the sale. He brought the rest and placed it in the care and under the authority of the apostles.
3 Peter asked, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has influenced you to lie to the Holy Spirit by withholding some of the proceeds from the sale of your land?
4 Wasn't that property yours to keep? After you sold it, wasn't the money yours to do with whatever you wanted? What made you think of such a thing? You haven't lied to other people but to God!"
5 When Ananias heard these words, he dropped dead. Everyone who heard this conversation was terrified.
6 Some young men stood up, wrapped up his body, carried him out, and buried him.
7 About three hours later, his wife entered, but she didn't know what had happened to her husband.
8 Peter asked her, "Tell me, did you and your husband receive this price for the field?" She responded, "Yes, that's the amount."
9 He replied, "How could you scheme with each other to challenge the Lord's Spirit? Look! The feet of those who buried your husband are at the door. They will carry you out too."
10 At that very moment, she dropped dead at his feet.​

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I've read that passage a number of times. I think greed is a component of the story but I don't think it was on the part of husband and wife. I think the greed was found in Peter. And I think Peter killed because of that greed.

It is something we see over and over again. Greedy people KNOW they are greedy and try their best to make their greed appear to be beneficial to others. That is what advertising is all about.

mkgal1 said:

Look at what Peter had said to them, that they had every right to do whatever they pleased with the money - so, Peter asked them - "What made you do such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.” Acts 5 - NIV Bible - Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife...

I absolutely agree - and that's the lying to our selves that I mean. Pretending that greed is generosity.

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If everyone who lies to God just dropped dead, there would not be very many people on the planet today. Sure, Peter -said- that but just to make his crime seem more reasonable.

People do not drop dead from lying to God and neither did that couple. It was far more likely that either Peter or one of his inner circle slipped a knife blade between their ribs and into their hearts. Then they did what every greedy person would do, they took ALL the money for themselves.

mkgal1 said:

You seem to be taking artistic liberties with the Biblical text. It doesn't state any of that. I'm thinking that Annanias and Sapphira were so grieved by what they'd done that they died from that grief. I believed - up until today - that God had struck them dead. But, in reading this passage again this morning, even that is importing ideas that aren't written into the text.

Oh! I see your religious tag now. I don't want to get too personal, but it seems as if you've - unfortunately - met up with greedy people in the church (and, unfortunately, that's not uncommon enough).

You're portraying quite a twist of Scripture (and tarnishing the reputation of the early NT church) by your ideas about Peter and the "inner circle".

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The text is written in a manner which allows people to think God struck them dead but you are right, it does not actually say that. Nor did I state the text said that. What I did say is "It was far more likely...." And, frankly, it is far more likely they were killed than died of 'grief'. Grief takes far longer than the story says these deaths took.

As to my involvement with greedy people both in and out of the church, I've long ago gotten over that. But I will confess that the decades I've lived through and my experiences with the church do have an impact on my views. But I'm not convinced that I deliberately attempt to vilify any part of the religion which has not already earned that vilification.

Finally, do keep in mind -I- did not write the Book of Acts. I suggest that if there is any tarnishing of the reputation of the Early church it is more likely done by whoever it was that wrote the book.

I will confess also to taking a pragmatic view of everything written in the Bible. I have no obligation to make it 'look good'. Nor do I have an obligation to make it 'look bad'.

Simple reading of the passage makes it unlikely that TWO people hours apart standing in front of Peter and answering for how they handled their own money would die in exactly the same manner unless their deaths were caused by someone. The passage is what it is.

jayem said:

As I recall, the traditional 7 Deadly Sins are not specified as such in the Bible. It's a church doctrine formulated by one of the Popes early in the Middle Ages. The thinking back then was that creation was ordered in a strict hierarchy. God of course, was the highest over everything. Then came the angels, ranked from Seraphim down to Guardian Angels. Next there was Man, also ranked by his station in life from the Pope down to heathen savages. And below man were the animals. What made the 7 Deadly Sins so evil is that they disturbed Man's place in the natural order. 6 of the 7--Greed, Gluttony, Envy, Lust, Wrath, and Sloth all dragged men down to the level of animals. But the last sin--Pride--was the worst. Because it caused men to believe they were above their natural place. Prideful men would consider themselves as kings, or even angels. That was most intolerable to medieval thinking.

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They are not listed as such in the Bible. They are part of what is known as 'Church tradition'. There is a LOT of what Christians believe is true that does not appear in the Bible. Some of those things have become crucial issues with Christians.

It would be interesting to study how the religion morphed over time away from the teachings of Jesus and into what it is today.

com7fy8 said:

I would say greed can have people doing their capitalism the wrong way.

And in case you call for something else > wrong people will do it the wrong way. And you can't make people love!

Our Apostle Peter says there is corruption in this evil world because of lust, in 2 Peter 1:4. My understanding is that lust is greed > enough can not be enough. It is won't-take-no-for-an-answer demand for pleasure, and for control and power and money in order to get pleasure. It has people using people, instead of lovingly caring for one another as God's family.

And yes, selfish desire can have people trying to use religion in order to get power to control and use people. And ones do this with the Bible.

So, it is wise to know what is good, but do not use it the wrong way, plus be wise to how ones try to use what is good for a wrong reason.

So, I do not throw out what is good because of how wrong people have used and misrepresented what is good.

I read that a big part is cow fart.

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Before any human being entered into game of Capitalism greed was a primary part of the rules which define that economic engine as capitalism. The very rules which makes capitalism what it is state that any person who is a capitalist HAS to have sufficient greed to make always make profit. Those people who do not have that minimum level of greed go bankrupt and are flushed out of the system. Greed is the very basic component of capitalism.

And greed is addictive.

As too the issue of cow farts, cows are being used as scapegoats in this issue. Methane gas is a by-product of animal digestion. Every animal, including human beings, fart methane gas. (okay, maybe fish don't fart. That isn't a study I'm aware of having been done)

The fact that the fossil fuel industry knew their product was a major contributor to Global Warming and didn't make that knowledge known to the public is just an example of danger greed represents within the economic engine chosen by America and many other nations in the world. Greed overruled rational thinking and now the planet is steaming full speed ahead into an Apocalypse which could have been easily avoided had people been told the truth about fossil fuels in the '60s.

com7fy8 said:

And had people been told about the danger of smoking . . . ?

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The people could have instructed their representative government to put the tobacco industry out of business because the danger to customers and society as a whole was greater than allowing people to continue being enticed into becoming addicted to the product.

The people could do that now except we have allowed capitalism to purchase the votes of our representatives. We no longer have the ability to expect government to protected us from the hazards of Capitalism.

renniks said:

Lol, being ambitious is not a sin. Making money is not sin. Capitalism is not inherently sinful. Seems to me that socialism is inherently sinful, because it doe's not reward people for their efforts. It steals people's rights.
The whole global warming by fossil fuel thing is a lot of theory and no substance.

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Economic engines are not subjects of religion. The fact that greed is the cornerstone of Capitalism is not, just by that fact, sinful or not sinful because 'Capitalism' is not human.

And, frankly, Socialism as an economic engine is not able to be sinful or not sinful for the same reason...it is not human.

Sin is purely a human thing used by religion to control other humans.

You also seem to confuse money with economic engines. Money is not an economic engine like capitalism or socialism. Money merely facilitates the bartering process which determines how the value of my work compares to the value of your work. Different economic engines all use money to represent the relative value of individuals.

The reality is that socialism is less likely to lead individuals into committing the sin of greed than is capitalism because socialism does not have greed as a vital element for the functioning of the economic engine. Rather it has benevolence and the betterment of the entire population as its cornerstone.

Frankly, socialism as a purely economic engine is more closely aligned with Jesus' teachings than is capitalism.

Finally, the fossil fuel issue has been shown to be a major driver of Global Warming. You have fallen victim to the dis-information campaign ran by the fossil fuel industry so they can continue making profit at the expense of human lives.