OT vs NT -- Why the striking contrasts?

ewq1938

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And the number one reason Jesus did not hang around the Pharisees much or hang out with them much, is because they would not admit they were sick and in need of a physician, but not because he did not love them...

They were the "hardest around" like I said just a little bit ago, (post #21, top of the page) and that's why Jesus dealt with or handled them in the way that He did, and/but not because He did not love them, no not at all, for He actually loved them very, very much...

God Bless!

How often do you tell your loved ones that they are evil and are going to hell?
 
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Neogaia777

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How often do you tell your loved ones that they are evil and are going to hell?
Those were not His exact words you know...

But, and/or anyway, if you knew them, and knew the way they were, and the way they were and are fully, and that they were on their way to hell unless something was done and/or said about it, and that only certain kinds of approaches would even have a chance at working because you knew them all fully or so very well, would you just sit back and/or do or say nothing?
 
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Dave L

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I plan to gather more examples. But, one that really stands out to me:

In the Sermon on the Mount, Christ taught us to love our enemies. I listened to a sermon by David Guzik, and if he's correct, this love goes beyond emotion (e.g. care for their soul) and extends to even assisting (though not assisting in evil acts) not just personal enemies, but enemies of society. So, for example, we might assist a serial killer in his walk through life.

This seems very contrary to the Old Testament, which has imprecatory psalms and in which Ecclesiastes tells us that there's a time for hate.

I'm curious about this specifically, but I'm also curious generally: why does the NT seem so different from the OT, at least when it comes to ethics?
God is the same and punishes the wicked every day with war, famine, disease, and pestilence. But his plan for believers now calls for non-violence.
 
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Norbert L

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I'm curious about this specifically, but I'm also curious generally: why does the NT seem so different from the OT, at least when it comes to ethics?
The passage of time does influence the behavior and views in civilizations. It wasn't really that long ago that slavery was abolished. In regards with that, the transitions that also happen between these events don't happen overnight as well.

The length of time between Moses and Jesus is comparable between us and Jesus. I think there are problems with lumping the context of the ancient world together as if it's one event. It may not be as simple as the striking differences between the testaments.

Look at how the events surrounding the execution of Ananias and Sapphira. It's not so much that their death should be striking to the reader, it's the Church's reaction to it that makes me wonder Acts of the Apostles 5:11. These were the people who were told love your enemy and they weren't rejoicing. Why is that?

The way I see it the men who were inspired by the Holy Spirit were confined by their knowledge and experiences. They had a repertoire of thoughts and beliefs that constrained how they could express the message they were communicating.

Basically the differences are a reflection of the world they were living in.
 
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Anguspure

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I plan to gather more examples. But, one that really stands out to me:

In the Sermon on the Mount, Christ taught us to love our enemies. I listened to a sermon by David Guzik, and if he's correct, this love goes beyond emotion (e.g. care for their soul) and extends to even assisting (though not assisting in evil acts) not just personal enemies, but enemies of society. So, for example, we might assist a serial killer in his walk through life.

This seems very contrary to the Old Testament, which has imprecatory psalms and in which Ecclesiastes tells us that there's a time for hate.

I'm curious about this specifically, but I'm also curious generally: why does the NT seem so different from the OT, at least when it comes to ethics?
Check out Aish.com and you will find that on a Jewish understanding of the OT there is very little difference.
Further to this, the fluidity of our language and the way we have translated the Bible has often obscured the meaning of Bible passages. Love and hate are a good example. Hate is a feeling that we may have but this does not prevent us from Loving. This is because the word translated as "Love" expresses a will to act for the benefit of a person, irrespective of how we may feel about them.
 
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tz620q

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I plan to gather more examples. But, one that really stands out to me:

In the Sermon on the Mount, Christ taught us to love our enemies. I listened to a sermon by David Guzik, and if he's correct, this love goes beyond emotion (e.g. care for their soul) and extends to even assisting (though not assisting in evil acts) not just personal enemies, but enemies of society. So, for example, we might assist a serial killer in his walk through life.

This seems very contrary to the Old Testament, which has imprecatory psalms and in which Ecclesiastes tells us that there's a time for hate.

I'm curious about this specifically, but I'm also curious generally: why does the NT seem so different from the OT, at least when it comes to ethics?
I think this is how progressive revelation works. There is a theory of teaching morality that says the teacher has to stoop to one level above the student's current state to show a comprehensible moral code that lifts the student up one level. Man had fallen so far in OT times that God took them from indiscriminate revenge as justice to proportional justice through Moses and the Law. Jesus reveals more of God's true intent for us by calling us to a higher moral code of forgiveness and repentance for our sins versus crime and punishment. Here is a link to an article that shows the reason why we should forgive.

Assassination Attempt on Pope John Paul II
 
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Redwingfan9

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I plan to gather more examples. But, one that really stands out to me:

In the Sermon on the Mount, Christ taught us to love our enemies. I listened to a sermon by David Guzik, and if he's correct, this love goes beyond emotion (e.g. care for their soul) and extends to even assisting (though not assisting in evil acts) not just personal enemies, but enemies of society. So, for example, we might assist a serial killer in his walk through life.

This seems very contrary to the Old Testament, which has imprecatory psalms and in which Ecclesiastes tells us that there's a time for hate.

I'm curious about this specifically, but I'm also curious generally: why does the NT seem so different from the OT, at least when it comes to ethics?
I don't see any contradiction between the old and new testaments. God's law hasn't changed one bit, in fact Jesus says that he wasn't going to remove one jot or tiddle from the law.

Jesus says to love our enemies and we show that love by sharing the gospel with them, that's what that passage is really all about. We don't tolerate their wickedness or invite such into our homes and lives. It's not much if a change from the old testament, there were thousands of coverts who joined Israel.
 
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GingerBeer

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why does the NT seem so different from the OT, at least when it comes to ethics?
Probably because several hundreds of years passed between the main books of the old testament and the main books of the new testament. Plus some exile and some experience under foreign occupation made the people writing realise that the xenophobic views in the old testament were just not going to make it in the "real world".
 
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dcalling

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I plan to gather more examples. But, one that really stands out to me:

In the Sermon on the Mount, Christ taught us to love our enemies. I listened to a sermon by David Guzik, and if he's correct, this love goes beyond emotion (e.g. care for their soul) and extends to even assisting (though not assisting in evil acts) not just personal enemies, but enemies of society. So, for example, we might assist a serial killer in his walk through life.

This seems very contrary to the Old Testament, which has imprecatory psalms and in which Ecclesiastes tells us that there's a time for hate.

I'm curious about this specifically, but I'm also curious generally: why does the NT seem so different from the OT, at least when it comes to ethics?

There is no difference between OT and NT. What Jesus said are already in OT (i.e. love God and love your neighbor as yourself, return your enemy's live stock etc).

However there are difference between what God wants us to do and human nature. You see Jonah who refused to go to Nineveh to warn those people because they are Israel's bitter enemy and Jonah rather want to see the destruction of it.

So don't judge others, but leave the judgement to God and just love people, may it be Trump or Obama......
But once God has pass the judgement (i.e. death of a good or bad guy), be happy about it, since that was decided by God.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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I plan to gather more examples. But, one that really stands out to me:

In the Sermon on the Mount, Christ taught us to love our enemies. I listened to a sermon by David Guzik, and if he's correct, this love goes beyond emotion (e.g. care for their soul) and extends to even assisting (though not assisting in evil acts) not just personal enemies, but enemies of society. So, for example, we might assist a serial killer in his walk through life.

This seems very contrary to the Old Testament, which has imprecatory psalms and in which Ecclesiastes tells us that there's a time for hate.

I'm curious about this specifically, but I'm also curious generally: why does the NT seem so different from the OT, at least when it comes to ethics?
Jesus Christ of Nazareth contrasted His ministry with the teachings of the Pharisees who corrupted the Law. He stressed that in order to be in the Kingdom of God one must exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees. They laid heavy burdens upon the Jewish community yet they could not meet that burden themselves. Jesus often spoke in hyperbole when dealing with the Pharisees in order to make a point.
Jesus initiated the "New Covenant" and fulfilled the "Old Covenant " with His work on the cross. Ethics did not change, penalties changed. We now have forgiveness through Jesus Christ of Nazareth. In your example of a serial killer, assuming this person is in jail, can have redemption. This is the "Good News" in the Kingdom of God. There was no redemption before, only the penalty of death.
 
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I plan to gather more examples. But, one that really stands out to me:

In the Sermon on the Mount, Christ taught us to love our enemies. I listened to a sermon by David Guzik, and if he's correct, this love goes beyond emotion (e.g. care for their soul) and extends to even assisting (though not assisting in evil acts) not just personal enemies, but enemies of society. So, for example, we might assist a serial killer in his walk through life.

This seems very contrary to the Old Testament, which has imprecatory psalms and in which Ecclesiastes tells us that there's a time for hate.

I'm curious about this specifically, but I'm also curious generally: why does the NT seem so different from the OT, at least when it comes to ethics?
The Old Testament people were looking for a Davidic warrior Messiah. They were not expecting the son of God as a teacher and healer.

Realistically, my enemies will mistreat me. If per chance, I can help like in Christ’s sermon about the Good Samaritan, then my enemy might know there is kindness in the world.
 
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blackhole

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In your example of a serial killer, assuming this person is in jail,

If he's in jail, he's probably not being toxic to society. I mean someone that's still loose; perhaps even, the government is in disarray and only anarchy exists. And this serial killer is murdering people frequently.

If we look at such a person and treat him with kindness of the sort: Oh sir, let me help you carry your bags (not assuming there are bodies in them), aren't we showing hatred for society, and even an unreasonable degree of acceptance toward this person?

If he's in prison, then my doubts change completely. He's not actively harming anyone, so yes: show him kindness; God showed kindness to us miserable people.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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If he's in jail, he's probably not being toxic to society. I mean someone that's still loose; perhaps even, the government is in disarray and only anarchy exists. And this serial killer is murdering people frequently.

If we look at such a person and treat him with kindness of the sort: Oh sir, let me help you carry your bags (not assuming there are bodies in them), aren't we showing hatred for society, and even an unreasonable degree of acceptance toward this person?

If he's in prison, then my doubts change completely. He's not actively harming anyone, so yes: show him kindness; God showed kindness to us miserable people.
I would assume the person helping the serial killer is unaware of the condition. After all, serial killers are not easily discerned in society. As Christians we hate the sin and not the sinner, (at least we try.) A good example is the recent case of the brother of the slain man who was killed by Amber Guyger. He forgave his brothers killer with much humility and overcame his hatred and in turn society was was not hurt by his actions rather, society gained insight into the Love God has for all.
Blessings
 
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blackhole

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I would assume the person helping the serial killer is unaware of the condition. After all, serial killers are not easily discerned in society. As Christians we hate the sin and not the sinner, (at least we try.) A good example is the recent case of the brother of the slain man who was killed by Amber Guyger. He forgave his brothers killer with much humility and overcame his hatred and in turn society was was not hurt by his actions rather, society gained insight into the Love God has for all.
Blessings

You just nullified my question, though. I asked how we should treat serial killers in this regard; saying we don't know he's a serial killer completely dodges the issue. And in a society that's given to anarchy, it's very possible that you'd know.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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You just nullified my question, though. I asked how we should treat serial killers in this regard; saying we don't know he's a serial killer completely dodges the issue. And in a society that's given to anarchy, it's very possible that you'd know.
Well then skip that first sentence and go to what Jesus Christ of Nazareth would do, which is presented in the next sentences.
 
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...This seems very contrary to the Old Testament, which has imprecatory psalms and in which Ecclesiastes tells us that there's a time for hate.

I'm curious about this specifically, but I'm also curious generally: why does the NT seem so different from the OT, at least when it comes to ethics?

I think there is really no meaningful difference. I think both have the same ethics, same law and there will also be judgment for unrighteous. But it seems that in OT people very too focused on judging and forgot fro example this:

Thus has Yahweh of Hosts spoken, saying, 'Execute true judgment, and show kindness and compassion every man to his brother.
Zechariah 7:9
 
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dqhall

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Jesus Christ of Nazareth contrasted His ministry with the teachings of the Pharisees who corrupted the Law. He stressed that in order to be in the Kingdom of God one must exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees. They laid heavy burdens upon the Jewish community yet they could not meet that burden themselves. Jesus often spoke in hyperbole when dealing with the Pharisees in order to make a point.
Jesus initiated the "New Covenant" and fulfilled the "Old Covenant " with His work on the cross. Ethics did not change, penalties changed. We now have forgiveness through Jesus Christ of Nazareth. In your example of a serial killer, assuming this person is in jail, can have redemption. This is the "Good News" in the Kingdom of God. There was no redemption before, only the penalty of death.
Paul was arresting Christians and voting for their execution. God asked him to reconsider his career path. Paul became an organizer of churches.

Some Vietnam War veterans returned to Vietnam to help clear mine fields.

The tax collector Zachaeus offered to repay those he had cheated by collecting more than he was authorized to collect (Luke 19).

A sinner must repent to realize God’s grace.
 
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Soyeong

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I plan to gather more examples. But, one that really stands out to me:

In the Sermon on the Mount, Christ taught us to love our enemies. I listened to a sermon by David Guzik, and if he's correct, this love goes beyond emotion (e.g. care for their soul) and extends to even assisting (though not assisting in evil acts) not just personal enemies, but enemies of society. So, for example, we might assist a serial killer in his walk through life.

This seems very contrary to the Old Testament, which has imprecatory psalms and in which Ecclesiastes tells us that there's a time for hate.

I'm curious about this specifically, but I'm also curious generally: why does the NT seem so different from the OT, at least when it comes to ethics?

The NT and the OT are the same in regard to ethics and Jesus did not teach anything that was brand new in the Sermon on the Mount. Whenever he directly quoted Scripture, he proceeded by saying "it is written", but when he was quoting from what the people of his day had heard being taught about the Law, he proceeded by saying "you have heard that it was said", so his emphasis on the different form of communication is important. So Jesus was not sinning in violation of Deuteronomy 4:2 by adding or subtracting from the Law, but rather he was fulfilling the Law by correcting what was wrongly being taught about it and by teaching how to correctly understand it as it was originally intended. For example:

Matthew 5:43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’

While the OT certainly instructs us to love our neighbor (Leviticus 19:18), it does not instruct us to hate our enemy, so that is what Jesus was correcting. On the contrary, the OT says the opposite:

Exodus 23:4-5 “If you meet your enemy's ox or his donkey going astray, you shall bring it back to him. 5 If you see the donkey of one who hates you lying down under its burden, you shall refrain from leaving him with it; you shall rescue it with him.

Deuteronomy 23:7 “You shall not abhor an Edomite, for he is your brother. You shall not abhor an Egyptian, because you were a sojourner in his land.

Proverbs 24:17-18 Do not rejoice when your enemy falls, and let not your heart be glad when he stumbles, 18 lest the Lord see it and be displeased, and turn away his anger from him.

Proverbs 25:21-22 If your enemy is hungry, give him bread to eat, and if he is thirsty, give him water to drink, 22 for you will heap burning coals on his head, and the Lord will reward you.

So what Jesus was teaching was in accordance with the OT. Part of coming to love people that we once considered to be our enemies is recognizing that they were never truly our enemies:

Ephesians 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.
 
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“Gomer has many lovers, but you must continue loving her. Do this because it is an example of the Lord’s love for Israel. He continues to love them, but they continue to turn to other gods, and they love to eat those raisin cakes."

Theres so much to Him.. haha duh we don't understand nor see YET. We have hot cold sun darkness and SIN. There is no darkness no shadow no sin in heaven. He is holy holy holy and just. We have a book that is perfect for what we need here. It does not hold everything He is. We did this not Him. Sin was found in Satan and he took his angels and got kicked out. There is no repentance for him. There is for you and me. There are so many stories in the word of His love. We today have something they didn't. We have HIS ways written on our hearts. They didn't. They had to have light by day and night. Had to have the law.. well told God they can do it.. lol He show'd them just what they cant do and that they WE need Him.

We still look at all this the only way we can. Through mans eyes. This is not the real realm. There is NO darkness at all where He is. He is out side of time. We see past present and future. And He stands in all at the same time. Christ to die for the world.. thats the past thats the present and future. He became what He created. There is no one that can judge Him. Truly we don't know Him. Not yet. He will hide nothing from us. Sin...worry doubt fear.. all the things that go with Satan.. cloud what we can really see.
 
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