An Australian question

solid_core said:

Do you take literally that, after the Flood "whole the earth was completely dry?"

Its obviously not about our planet, but about the middle eastern local land.

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Genesis6: 14 By the twenty-seventh day of the second month the earth was completely dry. What of it? You think a God who sends a global flood can't also dry it up?

Obvious to you. To me it was obviously global.

There are massive graveyards of thousands of fish, dinosaurs and mammals.

Psalm 104:6–9 “The mountains rose, the valleys sank down to the place which You established for them”

Great flood legends go across many cultures.

Hi emmylouwho,

Just as a point of practice here on the boards, one shouldn't respond within the quoted portion of the text. Your response, unless the quoted text is very, very short, won't be seen without expanding the quote. Personally, I'm not in the habit of expanding quotes of my own posts because I already know what I said.

Just something to consider in your responses to make it easier on everyone.

Now, how long did it take? I don't have a clue. Could have taken 10 years or could have taken 110 or maybe even 250. There are quite a few unanswered questions that we would need answers for to be able to make that determination. The first one being, when did the first person or group of people decide to even head off out into the ocean, as explorers did to find America, even through there were already people already on the North American continent when they got here. At some point, someone decided to take to the seas and wound up in Australia and perhaps about the same time, New Zealand. However, that would all be guesswork on my part.

But I do believe God's word! So, however it happened, I know that it did, in fact, happen. I believe God's word that there was day that a shadow cast by the sun went backwards 10 steps. How did that happen? I haven't a clue! I just know that it did because God's word tells me that it did and I believe God's word. I believe that a woman living in Israel found herself pregnant even though she had never had sexual relations with a man. How did that happen? Well, other than the Scriptures saying that the Holy Spirit of God came over her, I don't have a clue. But I believe God's word and so I know that it did, in fact, happen. I believe that a time came when an ass spoke in an intelligible language to a man in Israel. How did that happen? I haven't a clue! But I believe God's word and God's word tells me that it did happen.

So, when God's word tells me that Adam named his wife because she would be the mother of all mankind, I believe God's word. How each generation came to be and where they journeyed off to in their lives, I don't have a clue. But God's word tells me that Adam was the first man and that sin came to us through that first man. God's word tells me that Adam named his wife Eve because she would be the mother of all mankind and I believe both of those testimonies because they are contained in God's word and I believe God's word!

I also believe that God parted a sea. A literal deep sea and held that chasm open long enough for an entire nation of people, at least a couple of thousand strong, to pass through. Then just as quickly allowed the water to close up the chasm He had created to swallow up the entire Egyptian army just as Miriam stood on the shore after it was all over and sang about it. I believe God's word and for me, that's really all I need to know. The 'how' he was able to make these physical manifestations and events upon the earth to happen? I really don't have a clue except that God's word tells me that for God nothing is impossible. So, I believe that God did it just as He tells me He did it because nothing is impossible for God.

That's my faith in God and His Scriptures.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

Emmylouwho said:

Can you repost the helpful guide link?

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The link is interesting and informative to me, but i don't know if it answer your question. However, I don't take the dates literally, they may be educated guess but no one can ascertain the accuracy.

How Did Aboriginal Australians Arrive on the Continent? DNA Helps Solve a Mystery

Emmylouwho said:

Wait. Are you saying you don’t take Genesis literally?

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The tables of Noah's lineage may not be 100% complete but it sufficiently indicates the many generations.

When reading Genesis 1, I don't take the word 'day' literally. I believe 'day' refers to stage of time. GOD created light in the first stage, atmosphere in second stage... land creatures on 6th stage. However, the author uses the word 'day' because it fit the prose of writing in a religious document. For science or engineering text, people say stage. But not in religious manuscript.

It is not about taking the bible literally or not, there are more factors to consider too.

roman2819 said:

The tables of Noah's lineage may not be 100% complete but it sufficiently indicates the many generations.

When reading Genesis 1, I don't take the word 'day' literally. I believe 'day' refers to stage of time. GOD created light in the first stage, atmosphere in second stage... land creatures on 6th stage. However, the author uses the word 'day' because it fit the prose of writing in a religious document. For science or engineering text, people say stage. But not in religious manuscript.

It is not about taking the bible literally or not, there are more factors to consider too.

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Hi Roman,

While I understand that there are quite a few christians who believe as you do, the one little niggling clue that I find to determine that is not an accurate accounting of the days, is the little phrase of context that defines each day as consisting of an evening and a morning. For me, even if I allow your next inference that the author of the Scriptures was some man, to write that there was an evening and a morning to a 'stage', doesn't make any sense. A stage, if each one were to have encompassed several rotations of the earth, would have contained many evenings and mornings.

Secondly, you seem to infer that the 'author' is some human and thus the account is the best that human could do to describe to us the creation event. I reject that claim out of hand. The author of the Scriptures is God, who through His Holy Spirit, led men to write all that we find in God's account of all that He has done that we might have life. The first life being our physical birth upon the earth and living day to day in this created realm, but the ultimate and abundant life being the one, we who believe, will live after the day of God's judgment.

I also have no idea where you found support that somehow because something is a 'religious manuscript' that the word 'stage' wouldn't have been used to describe a 'stage' or 'eon' or 'great expanse of time'. Is there some special dictionary for religious writers that says the word 'stage' shouldn't be written to describe a 'stage'? I mean, is 'stage' an unclean word or something?

God bless,
In Christ, ted

Emmylouwho said:

How did the Aboriginal people get to Australia from wherever it was the Noah's Ark landed?

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They had some pretty good bush mechanics.

Emmylouwho said:

I don’t know how to take it. How do you take it?

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Locally. It was not our planet that was dry, it was the middle eastern land, only.

Emmylouwho said:

What does the Bible day?

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Not too relevant, because Bible is not a scientific book and biblical genealogies are neither precise nor dictated by God, its just a Jewish mythological ancestor line to Adam.

Emmylouwho said:

There are explicit genealogies in the Bible about the progeny of Noah. Are you aware of this?

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Yes. But again, Bible is not a scientific book and ancient Hebrews were no way close to a scientific nation.

Emmylouwho said:

So the great flood happened 60,000 years ago? I must have everything mixed up. I thought it was 6000 years ago. According to the geneologies in the Bible and such.

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Where did you get 6,000 years from? The Bible does not give us a number It says how long some of the people lived, but that is not enough to calculate millenia.

Emmylouwho said:

The genealogies in the Bible.

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Where does the Bible say Noah's Ark was made 6,000 years ago? Genealogies alone don't tell you that.

You are exactly on the right track Emmy Lou to challenge people to believe the Bible not speculations such as the flood only covered the local middle eastern area when it clearly describes the whole earth, globally was flooded and all humankind was killed except those 8 in the ark, not people just in the middle east.

Keep believing what God says is the truth in Scripture & reading it in its CONTEXT to understand it & the testimony of the WHOLE of Scripture, not just the verse isolated but all the supportive verses THROUGHOUT Scripture that precisely confirm the truth of what God has spoken & had written down in the Holy Bible.

The bible does NOT say that at all. That is pure humanistic speculation or that a day described in the bible with an evening and a morning one day meaning ONLY a 24 hour time frame--NOT a span of indefinite time or a 'stage' of time. The Bible accurately describes a 24 hour day in Genesis 1 and THOUSANDS OF TIMES throughout the Bible when those qualifiers are given.

Exodus 20:8-11 Remember the Sabbath DAY, to keep it holy. SIX DAYS you shall labor & do all your work, but the 7th day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On IT you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates.

11For in SIX DAYS the LORD made heaven & earth, the sea & all that is in them & rested on the 7TH DAY. THEREFORE the Lord blessed the Sabbath day & made it holy.

This legal, lawful definition in Scripture precisely AGAIN defines what those specific days were: actual literal 24 hour spans of time, a normally understood meaning throughout the Bible on what a normally understood day is.

Here again we have qualifiers to precisely describe what is meant by a day here. God had a legal definition. People were to work SIX DAYS and then rest on the 7th day. Do people work thousands of days or millions of years for each day they NORMALLY WORK in life? That is ridiculous & laughable.

A work day, whether what shift one works, like today, is considered one day. The started in the morning & quit in the evening. Sounds like Genesis 1?

Let me make it more precise. The 6 days of the week that they were working is then USED TO DEFINE THE 6 DAYS GOD CREATED THE HEAVEN(S) & THE EARTH. They are one & the same meaning! One cannot speculate or somehow say they are different. Scripture won't allow this presumption.

Again the 7th Sabbath day that the Israelites kept, a 24 hour period, from evening to morning, is AGAIN shown to be the same time frame when God rested on the 7th day in Genesis 2:1-3!

Exodus 31:17 It is a permanent sign of My covenant with the people of Israel. For in SIX DAYS the LORD made heaven & earth, but on the 7TH DAY he RESTED & was refreshed.’”

God confirms what He said, which is the truth & nothing but the truth, by many verses throughout Scripture as to show what He precisely meant by what was written.

Now some will try, for example, to support their wild speculations by mentioning the meaning of 'day' used in Gen 2:4, does NOT have the qualifiers of a period of light, morning & a period of darkness, evening & describing it plainly as ONE normal 24 hour day.

That is true. BUT...they ignore again the precise QUALIFIERS in the verse itself, that define the time frame there IN CONTEXT, of what that day actually is.

Yet here in Gen 2:4, as we saw in Exodus 20 & 31, we recognize AGAIN BY THE QUALIFYING TIME FRAME IN THE VERSE ITSELF, how this day is DETERMINED & DEFINED BY GOD HIMSELF.

Romans 3:1-4 What, then, is the advantage of being a Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision? Much in every way. FIRST OF ALL, they have been entrusted with THE VERY WORDS OF GOD.

3What if some did NOT have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? CERTAINLY NOT! LET GOD BE TRUE & EVERY MAN A LIAR. As it is written: “So that You may be PROVED RIGHT when You speak & victorious when You judge.”

Exodus 24:3,4 Moses came & told the people all the commands of the Lord & all the ordinances. Then all the people responded with a single voice, “We will do everything THAT THE LORD HAS COMMANDED.” And Moses wrote down ALL THE WORDS OF THE LORD.

So when we look at WHAT the verse ACTUALLY SAYS, we see the qualifiers:

1) This is the 'generations of' the heavens & the earth WHEN THEY WERE CREATED!

This term, generations (Hebrew 'toledoth'), is repeated NINE TIMES throughout Genesis to describe the accounts of, the histories of, the genealogies of, the records of, the time frame of each act of history that occurs in the book of Genesis--(9 toledoths: Creation – Genesis 2:4; Adam – Gen 5:1; Noah & his sons – Gen 6:9; 10:1, 32; Shem – Gen 11:10; Terah – 11:27; Ishmael – Gen 25:12-13; 1 Chronicles 1:29; Isaac – Gen 25:19; Esau – Gen 36:1, 9; Jacob – Gen 37:2)

whether the historical record of the creation or the account of the historical real person, Adam & his lifespan & offspring--again real people in real history, living out their lives.

Yet Scripture does not stop there. It precisely defines what that day is by adding: WHEN THEY WERE CREATED.

From Genesis 1, Exodus 20 & 31 & elsewhere in Scripture, we KNOW how many days it took for God to create the heavens & the earth: 6 literal, normally understood 24 hour days. So this 'day' is summarizing the 6 days of creation WHEN God created the heavens & the earth.

AGAIN, this is precisely the meaning of the passage because the CONTEXT shows it. The first 4 verses before this describe the 7th day of rest being a literal, normally understood 24 hour period--as the verses I showed above (& there are MANY more that could be used to further show this throughout Scripture).

It again adds yet another qualifier, to erase any doubt from intelligent people of faith, as to what God precisely means here:

2) IN THE DAY that the LORD God MADE THE EARTH & THE HEAVENS...

Much information is in this short phrase but I will address just this one issue. God did not say ON the day, which would have made it a normal 24 hour day but IN, which INcludes ALL 6 days of creation, as the previous phrase indicates & as the additional supporting verses elsewhere in Scripture define.

3) This is a SUMMARY statement concerning the historical account & record (toledoth) of how God CREATED the heavens & the earth.

I mentioned earlier in a post to look at Genesis 10 & the table of nations, how they historically came about from the very beginnings of the 'toledoth' or historical record of Noah & his sons & how all the nations today came from them & their wives. I then said do some homework on those original migrations & what nations & countries we see today that came from them.

Here is a website that will help you, a lot of the homework already done.

Josephus and Genesis Chapter Ten

This is confirmed in Deuteronomy 32:8,9: When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when HE SEPARATED the sons of men, he fixed the bounds of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God. For the LORD's portion is His people, Jacob his allotted heritage.

The Apostle Paul also FURTHER confirms (other Scriptures as well) where the Aborigines' fit in the development of countries & nations & languages. As in the DAYS of Paul & his historical record of his life in the Scriptures, there were skeptics & scoffers as to the truth of the Scriptures, so we have them today.

Acts 17:18-31 Some Epicurean & Stoic philosophers also began to debate with him. Some of them asked, “What is this babbler trying to say?” while others said, “He seems to be advocating foreign gods.” They said this because Paul was proclaiming the gospel of Jesus & the resurrection.

19So they took Paul & brought him to the Areopagus, where they asked him, “May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting? For you are bringing some strange notions to our ears & we want to know what they mean.”

21Now all the Athenians & foreigners who lived there SPENT THEIR TIME doing nothing more than telling & hearing new things (latest new idea).

22Then Paul stood up before the Areopagus & said, “Men of Athens, I see that in every way you are very religious. For as I walked around & examined your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. Therefore what you worship as something UNKNOWN, I now proclaim to you.

24The God who MADE the world & everything in it is the Lord of heaven & earth & does not live in temples made by human hands.

25Nor is He served by human hands, as if He needed anything, because He Himself gives all men life & breath & everything else.

26FROM ONE MAN HE MADE EVERY NATION OF MEN, TO INHABIT THE WHOLE EARTH & HE DETERMINED THEIR APPOINTED TIMES & THE BOUNDARIES OF THEIR LANDS.

27God intended that they would seek Him & perhaps reach out for Him & find Him, though He is not far from each one of us. 28‘For in Him we live and move and have our being.’

As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are His offspring.’ Therefore, being offspring of God, we should not think that the Divine Being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by man’s skill and imagination.

30Although God overlooked the ignorance of earlier times, He now commands all men everywhere to repent. For He has set a day when He will judge the world with justice by the Man He has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising Him from the dead.”

Hopefully these thoughts will be helpful & a comfort to you. Blessings!

Mathetes66 said:

You are exactly on the right track Emmy Lou to challenge people to believe the Bible not speculations such as the flood only covered the local middle eastern area when it clearly describes the whole earth...,

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Actually, to believe that ancient texts are written in a scientific language is a huge speculation and quite unreal.

To take all data from various science fields and compare it to the text and to say that text is probably not scientific is much less speculation, because you verify what you read in a book with a real world.

Emmylouwho said:

So the great flood happened 60,000 years ago? I must have everything mixed up. I thought it was 6000 years ago. According to the geneologies in the Bible and such.

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You are correct.

"Actually, to believe that ancient texts are written in a scientific language is a huge speculation and quite unreal."

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I never once said that I believed that. YOU DID, as IF I believed that. That is committing several logical fallacies: one that of a 'red herring' & also a 'strawman' argument & the 'bandwagon' fallacy.

You make it look as if I believe that, building this strawman up & basing all on scientific issues, when it isn't the issue I was making at all!

And the bandwagon issue. Just because a significant population of people believe a proposition is true, doesn't automatically make it true. Popularity alone is not enough to validate an argument, though it's often used as a standalone justification of validity. Arguments in this style don't take into account whether or not the population validating the argument is actually qualified to do so, or if contrary evidence exists.

Another fallacy is your 'appeal to authority' but sadly your authority is science & NOT the Scriptures, the truth of God in language normal, everyday people could understand.

It APPEARS you may also be trying to promote the 'false dilemma' fallacy, pitting science against the Scriptures. This common fallacy misleads by presenting complex issues in terms of two inherently opposed sides. Instead of acknowledging that most (if not all) issues can be thought of on a spectrum of possibilities & stances, the false dilemma fallacy asserts that there are only two mutually exclusive outcomes & you believe science triumphs over the plain normal testimony of Scripture & therefore one should believe what science teaches rather than the Scriptures.

And your brief assertions without adequate factual proof shows you are also committing the 'Hasty Generalization' fallacy.

This fallacy occurs when someone draws expansive conclusions based on inadequate or insufficient evidence. In other words, they jump to conclusions about the validity of a proposition with some -- but not enough -- evidence to back it up, and overlook potential counterarguments.

But enough of that. The point I was making is that one can readily UNDERSTAND the Bible because it is written in a way for us to be able to understand it, by the Lord opening our minds & hearts to know what it says & by the leading of the Holy Spirit, Who guides us into all the truth. And that truth is the Scriptures!

Moses could have written Genesis 1 in the latest scientific information of his day, which he was well trained in, there in Egypt. They have done things back then that we can't explain how it happened even today.

BUT HE DIDN'T. He wrote Genesis by the leading of the Holy Spirit, inspired by the living God. The average Israeli reading what Moses wrote would be able to understand what Moses meant by what He wrote.

That is my point. I trust the living God, when He REVEALS His truth, His revelation, that He is ABLE to communicate that truth so we may understand it & be able to observe it.

Isaiah 8:20 NKJV To the law & to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

To take all data from various science fields & compare it to the text & to say that text is probably not scientific is much less speculation, because you verify what you read in a book with a real world.

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First of all, I take all other data (scientific, philosophical, psychological, etc.) & compare it to the truth, the Word of God not the other way around. Science & archaeology most every time will confirm the Scriptures, as has been shown over & over again.

Second, I agree with you that you verify what you read in a book with a real world. But what mean by this statement & what I mean are definitely different.

My point is not to read other books & then try to make the Bible fit THEIR supposed reality. On the contrary, I read the Bible, especially in Genesis as continued 'historical record' of what has happened since the beginning of creation until the death of Joseph & the start of the nation of Israel.

THAT record IS the real world BACK THEN. This is what happened in actual time, space & matter. God was there. He is the Creator of all things. He had Moses write down what He, the eternal eyewitness said HAPPENED! It is a factual, historical & truthful revelation of the existing world & universe back then.

Obviously, it doesn't include all details but those that are revealed were done by God for a specific purpose: to show us Who He is & our need to trust, love & follow Him. It is a historical record of prophecy from Genesis to Revelation of the eternal Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ & our need to repent & believe the gospel, the good news, so that we might be reconciled to God in Christ & walk in faith & fellowship with the living God.

Australia was once connected to Asia.