Trump Ends Fight Against ISIS

abysmul said:

But we were never pulling out were we? Show me what specific conditions would have to be met to pull out? When was this region last stable?

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I don't know. I'm not an expert in Middle Eastern affairs. But I wouldn't have done it rashly and without consulting our co-participants in the region.

Speedwell said:

I don't know. I'm not an expert in Middle Eastern affairs. But I wouldn't have done it rashly and without consulting our co-participants in the region.

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For how long? What if our co-participants said never? What if everyone said "you have to stay!"? Seems, NOBODY has and end game other than the US must stay, invest our blood and money, and stay, and invent, and stay, and invest.... forever.

To me it seems everyone is "not an expert in Middle Eastern affairs" because there is never an end.

President Trump had been calling Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's bluff for more than 2 years, and some senior administration officials thought Erdoğan would never actually go through with his long-threatened Syria invasion, according to 6 sources with direct knowledge of the situation.

The big picture: Trump would tell Erdoğan that if he wanted to invade Syria he would have to own whatever mess ensued, according to these sources. Erdoğan would have to take care of ISIS and manage international condemnation, trouble from Capitol Hill, and the quagmire with the Kurds. And when Trump put it in such stark terms to Erdoğan, the Turkish leader would demur. Until last Sunday, that is, when he told Trump he was moving ahead with the invasion of northern Syria.

• This time, Erdoğan called Trump's bluff, having waited for international forces to wipe out the ISIS caliphate.
• Erdoğan's decision — which the White House cleared the way for in its Sunday night announcement, alienating and blindsiding key allies including Republican lawmakers and the Christian right — has plunged the Middle East and Trump's political standing in Washington into crisis.

mark46 said:

There are two general end games to a conflict/committment.

STRATEGY ONE
Have a withdrawal plan before we begin, including the conditions of withdrawal. The capture of Bin Laden might have been this condition for the Afghan War. Elections might have been this conditions in Iraq. The defeat of all ISIS-held territory might be the condition in Syria.

STRATEGY TWO
The commitment is for some support troops to be there forever. The US taken this view in Saudi AArabia, the UAE and Qatar.
==========

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So we didn't do one, and who's willing to admit they want two and think it is worth it?

mark46 said:

So, for me, if we are going to have troops in the region (Saudi Arabia, UAE and Qatar), it may be reasonable to have some troops and an airbase in Kabul (actually 25 miles NE in Bagram).

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Mission objective?

wing2000 said:

Mission objective?

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Mission accomplished!

#1 Protect Trump’s Buildings, Property, and brand in Turkey.

#2Protect the lives of US Servicemen.

#3 Withdraw from these endless wars.

#4 Allowing an ally to take care of unfinished business and eliminate a problem that they have had for years.

TLK Valentine said:

"An ISIS flag has - literally - been raised again in the Syrian countryside. The ISIS flag. Flying again. Can you Trump supporters get it *yet*? Can you admit your god king doesn’t know what he is doing? If not, when deaths start here again, we will point at you as responsible."

Kurt Eichenwald on Twitter

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Trump as god King…

Glorious!!

Nithavela said:

Exactly. Had those soldiers stayed put, Turkey wouldn't have invaded in the first place.

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The Turkish invasion was inevitable.

Speedwell said:

No, it is not, and will not be in the foreseeable future. Our force, small as it was, was at least temporarily blocking a Turkish invasion. Removing it unilaterally and without so much as advance notice--even to the Pentagon--was a rash thing to do. Don't be sucked in by the Right's narrative that the only alternates were pulling out in the way Trump did (and demanding Turkey not invade after the fact) or leaving them there forever.

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There will always be a pretense for keeping the troops in Syria - a false one. It wasn't about fighting ISIS before, and it isn't about protecting the Kurds now. To insist that conditions for US withdrawal must be "perfect" is advocate keeping them there indefinitely. Consider Afghanistan, where we have been for 18 years, consistently told that if we hold out just a little longer it will become stable. But again, the Pentagon is not telling us the truth about the real reason why the troops are there.

So in summary:

1. The troops should not be in Syria and never should have been there in the first place.
2. Ergo, the troops should leave, regardless of how it affects the situation on the ground.

SoldierOfTheKing said:

So in summary:

1. The troops should not be in Syria and never should have been there in the first place.
2. Ergo, the troops should leave, regardless of how it affects the situation on the ground.

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Even if this were granted, it would still be better if the withdrawal of US troops was planned in advance, rather than the military finding out about it afterwards, and having to scramble to get US troops out while supply lines are being overrun by Turkish soldiers. As it is, Trump's rash decision is putting troops at risk. Needlessly.

Aryeh Jay said:

Mission accomplished!

#1 Protect Trump’s Buildings, Property, and brand in Turkey.

#2Protect the lives of US Servicemen.

#3 Withdraw from these endless wars.

#4 Allowing an ally to take care of unfinished business and eliminate a problem that they have had for years.

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A poster will take Door #1.

In 24 hours, the estimated 1,000 elite US troops based in northeastern Syria to fight the Islamic State have found themselves overrun by Syrian, Turkish, and Russian military units.

US units were soon faced with heavy artillery strikes by Turkey that on Sunday appeared to target US positions. They also had to deal with fast-shifting control of cities and major motorways that were their pathway out of the country.

As of Tuesday at least one small unit of US forces, estimated to consist of 50 to 100 soldiers, was trapped by advances from two sides: by the Turkish forces along the border and Russian-backed Syrian government forces, who began arriving into the formerly Kurdish controlled cities of Raqqa, Manbij, Kobani, Qamishli, and Ayn Issa.

On the plus side, free bases for Russia and Syria:

essentialsaltes said:

In 24 hours, the estimated 1,000 elite US troops based in northeastern Syria to fight the Islamic State have found themselves overrun by Syrian, Turkish, and Russian military units.

US units were soon faced with heavy artillery strikes by Turkey that on Sunday appeared to target US positions. They also had to deal with fast-shifting control of cities and major motorways that were their pathway out of the country.

As of Tuesday at least one small unit of US forces, estimated to consist of 50 to 100 soldiers, was trapped by advances from two sides: by the Turkish forces along the border and Russian-backed Syrian government forces, who began arriving into the formerly Kurdish controlled cities of Raqqa, Manbij, Kobani, Qamishli, and Ayn Issa.

On the plus side, free bases for Russia and Syria:

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One can only hope Donald gave our servicemen enough time to shred, delete, and/or destroy any sensitive materials on that base before the Syrians/Russians came in, tossed the US flag in the trash and replaced it with their own...

Also, it should be noted that in a half-century of Cold War, and a few hot ones, the US never once last a military installation to the USSR.

Kudos to Donald for snapping our undefeated streak...

Assad is the only friend Christians have in Syria. Trump's pullout from Syria strengthens Assad and furthers the unification of Syria and an end to the bloodshed.

Assad is exactly the man, who's job it is, to protect the northern borders of his own country. The Syrian Kurds and Christians falling back into allegiance with Assad restores the natural balance of power in the region. And Assad is one of the very few friends Christians in the region still have.

There's a Syrian reporter who details the Syria situation from her inside perspective. SryianGirl (YouTube) or PartisanGirl (Twitter). You don't know Syria until you hear from her.

essentialsaltes said:

In 24 hours, the estimated 1,000 elite US troops based in northeastern Syria to fight the Islamic State have found themselves overrun by Syrian, Turkish, and Russian military units.

US units were soon faced with heavy artillery strikes by Turkey that on Sunday appeared to target US positions. They also had to deal with fast-shifting control of cities and major motorways that were their pathway out of the country.

As of Tuesday at least one small unit of US forces, estimated to consist of 50 to 100 soldiers, was trapped by advances from two sides: by the Turkish forces along the border and Russian-backed Syrian government forces, who began arriving into the formerly Kurdish controlled cities of Raqqa, Manbij, Kobani, Qamishli, and Ayn Issa.

On the plus side, free bases for Russia and Syria:

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Cry me a river. They had no business in Syria in the first place.

BeholdenGlory said:

Assad is the only friend Christians have in Syria.

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MMMMMMMmmmmmm... no. no. no.

SoldierOfTheKing said:

Cry me a river. They had no business in Syria in the first place.

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Oh, I guess it's cool that Turkey is shelling US troops then.

SoldierOfTheKing said:

Cry me a river. They had no business in Syria in the first place.

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Your support of the troops is noted.