2 "Parousias" according to Partial Preterism......

Are the 2 parousias of Partial Preterism biblical?

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No

    Votes: 4 40.0%
  • I don't know right now

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 3 30.0%
  • I have never heard of it

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • The Parousia was fulfilled in the 1st century

    Votes: 2 20.0%
  • There is only 1 Parousia

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    10

BABerean2

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I'm not sure what your extreme aversion is to the recognition that 70 A.D. was fulfillment of prophecy.

Have you failed to read what I posted before, about the fulfillment of most of the Olivet Discourse during 70 AD ?

Olivet Timing Revealed by Luke’s Gospel:


Compare Luke's Gospel to that of Matthew if you want to understand the timing.



Jesus Foretells Destruction of the Temple (These subtitles are found in e-Sword.)


Luk 21:5  Then, as some spoke of the temple, how it was adorned with beautiful stones and donations, He said, 
Luk 21:6  "These things which you see—the days will come in which not one stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down." 

(Mat 24:2  And Jesus said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down." )



Luk 21:7  So they asked Him, saying, "Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign will there be when these things are about to take place?" 

(Mat 24:3  Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?")

( Mar 13:3  Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked Him privately, 

Mar 13:4  "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign when all these things will be fulfilled?") 



Luk 21:8  And He said: "Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am He,' and, 'The time has drawn near.' Therefore do not go after them. 

(Mat 24:5  For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many. )



Luk 21:9  But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified; for these things must come to pass first, but the end will not come immediately."

(Mat 24:6  And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.) 



Jesus Foretells Wars and Persecution


Luk 21:10  Then He said to them, "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 

(Mat 24:7  For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. )



Luk 21:11  And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven. 

(Mat 24:7  For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. )



Luk 21:12  But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name's sake. 

(Mat 24:9  "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake.) (Read Acts 22:19-20, where Paul reveals that he fulfilled this text.)



Luk 21:13  But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony. 
Luk 21:14  Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer; 
Luk 21:15  for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist. 
Luk 21:16  You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put some of you to death. 
Luk 21:17  And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. 

(Mat 24:10  And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. )



Luk 21:18  But not a hair of your head shall be lost. 
Luk 21:19  By your patience possess your souls. 

(Mat 24:13  But he who endures to the end shall be saved.) 



Jesus Foretells Destruction of Jerusalem


Luk 21:20  "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 

(Mat 24:15  "Therefore when you see the 'ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), 



Luk 21:21  Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 

(Mat 24:16  "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.) 



Luk 21:22  For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 

Luk 21:23  But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 

(Mat 24:19  But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! )



Luk 21:24  And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. 
(Almost all Bible scholars agree that the first part of the verse above is about 70 AD. At the end of the verse we find a period of time known as “the times of the Gentiles”. In the verses that follow we find the future Second Coming of Christ.)


The Coming of the Son of Man



Luk 21:25  "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 

(Mat 24:29  "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.) 



Luk 21:26  men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 
Luk 21:27  Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 

(Mat 24:30  Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.) 



Luk 21:28  Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near." 

(Mat 24:33  So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors!)

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::



From "Antiquities of the Jews" by Josephus, Book 12, chapter 7

"6. When therefore the generals of Antiochus's armies had been beaten so often, Judas assembled the people together, and told them, that after these many victories which God had given them, they ought to go up to Jerusalem, and purify the temple, and offer the appointed sacrifices. But as soon as he, with the whole multitude, was come to Jerusalem, and found the temple deserted, and its gates burnt down, and plants growing in the temple of their own accord, on account of its desertion, he and those that were with him began to lament, and were quite confounded at the sight of the temple; so he chose out some of his soldiers, and gave them order to fight against those guards that were in the citadel, until he should have purified the temple. When therefore he had carefully purged it, and had brought in new vessels, the candlestick, the table [of shew-bread], and the altar [of incense], which were made of gold, he hung up the veils at the gates, and added doors to them. He also took down the altar [of burnt-offering], and built a new one of stones that he gathered together, and not of such as were hewn with iron tools. So on the five and twentieth day of the month Casleu, which the Macedonians call Apeliens, they lighted the lamps that were on the candlestick, and offered incense upon the altar [of incense], and laid the loaves upon the table [of shew-bread], and offered burnt-offerings upon the new altar [of burnt-offering]. Now it so fell out, that these things were done on the very same day on which their Divine worship had fallen off, and was reduced to a profane and common use, after three years' time; for so it was, that the temple was made desolate by Antiochus, and so continued for three years. This desolation happened to the temple in the hundred forty and fifth year, on the twenty-fifth day of the month Apeliens, and on the hundred fifty and third olympiad: but it was dedicated anew, on the same day, the twenty-fifth of the month Apeliens, on the hundred and forty-eighth year, and on the hundred and fifty-fourth olympiad. And this desolation came to pass according to the prophecy of Daniel, which was given four hundred and eight years before; for he declared that the Macedonians would dissolve that worship [for some time].

7. Now Judas celebrated the festival of the restoration of the sacrifices of the temple for eight days, and omitted no sort of pleasures thereon; but he feasted them upon very rich and splendid sacrifices; and he honored God, and delighted them by hymns and psalms. Nay, they were so very glad at the revival of their customs, when, after a long time of intermission, they unexpectedly had regained the freedom of their worship, that they made it a law for their posterity, that they should keep a festival, on account of the restoration of their temple worship, for eight days. And from that time to this we celebrate this festival, and call it Lights. I suppose the reason was, because this liberty beyond our hopes appeared to us; and that thence was the name given to that festival. Judas also rebuilt the walls round about the city, and reared towers of great height against the incursions of enemies, and set guards therein. He also fortified the city Bethsura, that it might serve as a citadel against any distresses that might come from our enemies. "


Josephus confirms above the understanding of the Jews of his time, who knew that Daniel had predicted the events of 167 BC, by Antiochus Epiphanes.
Josephus confirms it as a historical fact.


John 10:22 is a reference to the celebration of Hanukkah each year by the Jews of Jesus time.


The Book of Matthew was addressed mainly to a Jewish audience. Jesus was telling the Jews of His time that something similar to 167 BC would happen during 70 AD. Not only did Antiochus desecrate the temple, but he also attacked the city killing thousands of Jews and stopped the temple sacrifices. The temple sacrifices would also stop in 70 AD, due to the destruction of the temple. Based on John 10:22, the Jews were well aware of this historical fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy. Luke’s Gospel was written to more of a Gentile audience, so he spelled it out for them.


Matthew 24:15-16 and Luke 21:20-21 are clearly parallel accounts, because we have the same reference to flee in the second verse in each Gospel.


:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::


 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Have you have failed to read what I posted before, about the fulfillment of most of the Olivet Discourse during 70 AD ?
Olivet Timing Revealed by Luke’s Gospel:
Compare Luke's Gospel to that of Matthew if you want to understand the timing.
Matthew 24:15-16 and Luke 21:20-21 are clearly parallel accounts, because we have the same reference to flee in the second verse in each Gospel.
This is much easier to look at ....... :angel:

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread


I put a link to each verses of Matthew 24 below, in case some one to look up individual verses.
I include the verses of Mark 13 and Luke 21 if they are there.
Any input from other members is welcome.
============================

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:1 Temple, Buildings
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:2 "stone upon stone

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:3 When shall these be?and what the sign of Thy parousia<3952> and full-end of the Age?
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:4-5 For many shall be coming upon My name, saying,‘I AM the Christ....
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:6 Wars rumors of Wars
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:7-8 , nation, kingdom against nation, kingdom; quaking, famines

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread
Matthew 24:9 " they shall be delivering ye up in to tribulation and shall be killing ye, hated by all"
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:10 Deliver up one another---brother to death
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:11, 12 False prophets.....multiplied lawlessness...love grows cold
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:13 One enduring to end shall be saved
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:14 Gospel preached, testimony to all nations----then the end
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:15 Abomination desolation....desolating of Jerusalem.

Matthew 24:15

Whenever then ye may be seeing the abomination<946> of the desolation/ἐρημώσεως<2050>.......
Mark 13:14
Whenever yet ye may be seeing see the abomination<946> of the desolation/ἐρημώσεως<2050>
Luke 21:20
Whenever yet may be seeing the Jerusalem surrounded by war-troops,
then be knowing that come nigh desolating/ἐρήμωσις<2050> of Her
==============
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:16 those in Judea flee

Matthew 24:16
then those in
the Judea let them be fleeing! into the mountains
Mark 13:14
Whenever yet ye may be seeing see the abomination of the desolation<2050>, the one being declared by Daniel the prophet, standing where it is not binding, (whoever is reading let him be understanding!)
Then those in the Judea, let them be fleeing into the mountains
Luke 21:21
then those in the Judea,
let them be fleeing into the mountains;
and those in midst of Her, let them be coming out to country;
and those in the countries placed, let them not come be entering into Her
22 That days of vengeance these are, of the to be fulfilled<4130> all the having been written 23 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great Distress in the land and Wrath upon this people.
==================
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:17, 18 Those on Housetop---in the field
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:19 "woe to those pregnant and nursing in those days"
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:20 pray flight not in winter or sabbath
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:21 great tribulation, great distress, and wrath
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:22 Days shortened for sake of elect
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 23:23-25 False christs and prophets--deceive the elect if possible
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:26 He is in the desert, in the storerooms.
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:27 Lightening flashes from east, so shall parousia of the Son of Man
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:28 Where the eagles/vultures, there the corpse/carcass/body be
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:29 Signs in sun, moon, stars, powers of heavens shaken
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:30 Son of Man coming upon cloud/s of heaven with power and much glory
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:31 Gather elect in trumpet sound from 4 winds of heaven/s
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:32 Fig tree ripe, summer is nigh
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:33 Nigh is upon doors, Kingdom of God
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:34 Not shall be passing this generation till all fulfilled
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:35 Heaven and earth pass away, but not My words
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:36 Concerning day and hour, no one knows except Father
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:37-39 As in Days of Noah, thus also shall be Son of man
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:40-42 2 will be in the field, two will be grinding----1 taken, 1 left
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:43-44 Homeowner be wathchful, not knowing which hour Son of Man coming
 
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Andrewn

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Josephus confirms above the understanding of the Jews of his time, who knew that Daniel had predicted the events of 167 BC, by Antiochus Epiphanes.
167 BC + 483 (69 x 7) = 650 BC. This really doesn't work as a starting point for Daniel's prophecy. Newton's interpretation is much better.
 
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BABerean2

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167 BC + 483 (69 x 7) = 650 BC. This really doesn't work as a starting point for Daniel's prophecy. Newton's interpretation is much better.


Josephus said 408 years before, in the passage below.

From "Antiquities of the Jews" by Josephus, Book 12, chapter 7

"6. When therefore the generals of Antiochus's armies had been beaten so often, Judas assembled the people together, and told them, that after these many victories which God had given them, they ought to go up to Jerusalem, and purify the temple, and offer the appointed sacrifices. But as soon as he, with the whole multitude, was come to Jerusalem, and found the temple deserted, and its gates burnt down, and plants growing in the temple of their own accord, on account of its desertion, he and those that were with him began to lament, and were quite confounded at the sight of the temple; so he chose out some of his soldiers, and gave them order to fight against those guards that were in the citadel, until he should have purified the temple. When therefore he had carefully purged it, and had brought in new vessels, the candlestick, the table [of shew-bread], and the altar [of incense], which were made of gold, he hung up the veils at the gates, and added doors to them. He also took down the altar [of burnt-offering], and built a new one of stones that he gathered together, and not of such as were hewn with iron tools. So on the five and twentieth day of the month Casleu, which the Macedonians call Apeliens, they lighted the lamps that were on the candlestick, and offered incense upon the altar [of incense], and laid the loaves upon the table [of shew-bread], and offered burnt-offerings upon the new altar [of burnt-offering]. Now it so fell out, that these things were done on the very same day on which their Divine worship had fallen off, and was reduced to a profane and common use, after three years' time; for so it was, that the temple was made desolate by Antiochus, and so continued for three years. This desolation happened to the temple in the hundred forty and fifth year, on the twenty-fifth day of the month Apeliens, and on the hundred fifty and third olympiad: but it was dedicated anew, on the same day, the twenty-fifth of the month Apeliens, on the hundred and forty-eighth year, and on the hundred and fifty-fourth olympiad. And this desolation came to pass according to the prophecy of Daniel, which was given four hundred and eight years before; for he declared that the Macedonians would dissolve that worship [for some time].

.
 
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Andrewn

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After that, there’s one like the son of man coming on the clouds and is presented before the Ancient of Days, before God the creator himself, and is actually seated on a throne right beside God himself.
It sounds like you're thinking of 2 people sitting on the throne. But God the Father is not visible:

Joh 1:18 No one has seen God at any time. The only Son, who is at the Father’s side, has made Him known.

1Jo 4:12 No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwells in us, and His love is perfected in us.
 
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Andrewn

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Josephus said 408 years before, in the passage below.
167 + 408 = 575 BC. Cyrus the Great incorporated Babylon into the Persian Empire in 539 BC. What exactly is Josephus' starting point? And why 408 years?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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167 BC + 483 (69 x 7) = 650 BC. This really doesn't work as a starting point for Daniel's prophecy. Newton's interpretation is much better.
Hello Andrewn.
Could you please give you view on this post over here concerning Luke 21:24 and Revelation 11:2?
Could a "parousia" have happened in 70AD? Thanks.......

Revelation 11:18 "2nd Woe passed, .......time of wrath ........
BABerean2 said:
Luke 21:25-28 is a future event, which occurs when the times of the Gentiles is fulfilled.
Nobody saw Jesus return to planet earth during 70 AD. Therefore, it is actually your doctrine which makes Jesus a false prophet.
Are you denying that the Jerusalem in Luke 21:24 is not the same one as in Revelation 11:2? If so, you are claiming Jesus was a false Prophet to the 1st century Jews to make your form of Zionist Futurism work.....
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see:
Rapture refuted

Matthew 24:1
And Jesus coming out, departed from the Temple<2411>.
And His Disciples approached Him to show to Him the buildings of the Temple.

Luke 21:24 “And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. [Revelation 13:10]
And Jerusalem will be trampled<3961> by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.” [Revelation 11:2]

302660_c2760f5cc7d57e7088338ce451af705b.jpg


What about Revelation 11:1-2 SANCTUARY, COURT AND HOLY CITY
Post #19 COURT BEING CAST OUT OUTSIDE


Revelation 11:2 and the Court/Fold<833>[Priests/Lavar/Altar of Sacrifice] outside of the Sanctuary, be casting-out!<1544> out-side<1854> and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the Gentiles/Nations.
And the holy City they shall be treading<3961>forty two months.

HerodsTemple700x200.jpg
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Let me repost this concerning the 2 parousias from a PP view....
Is a parousia before the 1000yr period considered within the real of orthodox beliefs?

Partial Preterism at PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterism

70ad:
A coming
(parousia) of Christ
A day of the Lord
A judgment
The end of the Jewish Age
(Source: R.C. Sproul, Last Days)

Still future:
The Coming
(parousia) of Christ
The Day of the Lord
The Resurrection of the dead
The Rapture of the living
The (final) Judgment
The end of history
===============================
Statement of Purpose - Eschatology Forum Statement of Purpose
  • Idealism: (also called the spiritual approach, the allegorical approach, the nonliteral approach, and many other names) in Christian eschatology is an interpretation of the Book of Revelation that sees all of the imagery of the book as symbols.
  • Partial Preterism: Partial preterism holds that most eschatological prophecies, such as the destruction of Jerusalem, the Antichrists, the Great Tribulation, and the advent of the Day of the Lord as a "judgment-coming" of Christ, were fulfilled either in AD 70 or during the persecution of Christians under the Emperor Nero. The Second coming and the resurrection of the dead, however, have not yet occurred in the partial preterist system.
Millennialism:
  • Amillennialism: "no millennium", rejects the theory that Jesus Christ will have a thousand-year-long, physical reign on the earth. The amillennial viewpoint holds that the thousand years mentioned in Revelation 20 is a symbolic number, not a literal description; that the millennium has already begun and is identical with the current church age.
==============================
Partial Preterism at PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterism

Robert Roberts

  • 1855: The Signs of the Son of Man's Presence at the Destruction of Jerusalem "The parousia, or proximity, of the Son of Man to Jerusalem in the crisis of its overthrow was to be in the lifetime of that generation, according to the words of Jesus, who said, "This generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled."

  • 1879: Anglo-Israelism Refuted - A lecture delivered February 20th, 1879 by Robert Roberts of Birmingham in reply to a lecture given the previous evening by Mr. Edward Hine.

  • 1881: The Ways of Providence: The Overthrow of the Jewish Commonwealth by the Romans and the Destruction of Jerusalem by Titus "The survey of the ways of providence would be incomplete without something more than a glance at the events attending the overthrow of Jerusalem and disruption of the Jewish polity over thirty-five years after Christ left the earth. At first sight, it might seem as if this were outside the scope of the work which aims at the illustration of the subject from Biblical narrative alone. On a further consideration, however, the matter must appear otherwise. Although we have no scriptural narrative of the destruction of Jerusalem by Titus, yet we have much scriptural forecast of that terrible event, and therefore the particulars of the event are the particulars of a divine work. "
==================================
Are the 2 parousias of Partial Preterism biblical?
  1. Yes
    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. No
    3 vote(s)
    50.0%
  3. I don't know right now
    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Other
    1 vote(s)
    16.7%
  5. I have never heard of it
    1 vote(s)
    16.7%

  6. The Parousia was fulfilled in the 1st century
    1 vote(s)
    16.7%
  7. There is only 1 Parousia
    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
 
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BABerean2

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167 + 408 = 575 BC. Cyrus the Great incorporated Babylon into the Persian Empire in 539 BC. What exactly is Josephus' starting point? And why 408 years?

The date 575 BC would be during the life of Nebuchadnezzar-II.

Why 408 BC? Because that was the historical date of the event, known to the Jews of the first century.
Based on John 10:22, they celebrated Hanukkah every year.



Nebuchadnezzar II | Biography, Accomplishments, & Facts

.
 
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mkgal1

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The Book of Matthew was addressed mainly to a Jewish audience. Jesus was telling the Jews of His time that something similar to 167 BC would happen during 70 AD. Not only did Antiochus desecrate the temple, but he also attacked the city killing thousands of Jews and stopped the temple sacrifices. The temple sacrifices would also stop in 70 AD, due to the destruction of the temple. Based on John 10:22, the Jews were well aware of this historical fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy.
I agree (although I'm not sure about the 167 BC date).

Daniel 7:22 - until the Ancient One—the Most High—came and judged in favor of his holy people. Then the time arrived for the holy people to take over the kingdom.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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BABerean2 said:
2Ti 4:1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:
I have a thread on that since you bring it up so much.......
Revelation 11:18 "2nd Woe passed, .......time of wrath ........

mkgal1 said:
I'm not sure what your extreme aversion is to the recognition that 70 A.D. was fulfillment of prophecy.
BABerean2 said:
Josephus confirms above the understanding of the Jews of his time, who knew that Daniel had predicted the events of 167 BC, by Antiochus Epiphanes.
BABerean2 said:
Josephus said 408 years before, in the passage below.
The date 575 BC would be during the life of Nebuchadnezzar-II.

Why 408 BC? Because that was the historical date of the event, known to the Jews of the first century.
Based on John 10:22, they celebrated Hanukkah every year.

Nebuchadnezzar II | Biography, Accomplishments, & Facts
.
BAB........What does that have to do with the topic of this thread?

2 "Parousias" according to Partial Preterism......

====================

This is about the 70AD parousia of Matthew 24 and Revelation


Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:3 When shall these be?and what the sign of Thy parousia<3952> and full-end of the Age?

==================
There are plenty of threads on Daniel............
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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mkgal1 said:
I'm not sure what your extreme aversion is to the recognition that 70 A.D. was fulfillment of prophecy.
Have you failed to read what I posted before, about the fulfillment of most of the Olivet Discourse during 70 AD ?
Olivet Timing Revealed by Luke’s Gospel:
Compare Luke's Gospel to that of Matthew if you want to understand the timing.

Jesus Foretells Destruction of the Temple (These subtitles are found in e-Sword.)
We have read what you have posted before to make your form of Zionist Futurism work........
\
 
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mkgal1

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Jesus was telling the Jews of His time that something similar to 167 BC would happen during 70 AD
What happened in 167 BC?

Solomon's Temple was destroyed by the Babylonians long before then (if that's what you're referring to).

Chronology of Temples: Temple Events
ETA: According to a few sources (the one above included) the Maccabean revolt happened around that time, with the result being that Jerusalem was back under Jewish control.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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BABerean2 said:
The Book of Matthew was addressed mainly to a Jewish audience. Jesus was telling the Jews of His time that something similar to 167 BC would happen during 70 AD. Not only did Antiochus desecrate the temple, but he also attacked the city killing thousands of Jews and stopped the temple sacrifices. The temple sacrifices would also stop in 70 AD, due to the destruction of the temple. Based on John 10:22, the Jews were well aware of this historical fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy.
What happened in 167 BC?
Solomon's Temple was destroyed by the Babylonians long before then (if that's what you're referring to).
Indeed.

In fact, Yahweh called the KoB His servant.................

Jeremiah 25:
7 “Yet you have not listened to Me,” says the LORD, “that you might provoke Me to anger with the works of your hands to your own hurt.
9 ‘behold, I will send and take all the families of the north,' says the LORD, ‘and Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, My servant, and will bring them against this land, against its inhabitants, and against these nations all around, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, a hissing, and perpetual desolations.

Jeremiah 27:6 ‘And now I have given all these lands into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, My servant; and the beasts of the field I have also given him to serve him.

Jeremiah 43:10 “and say to them, ‘Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: “Behold, I will send and bring Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, My servant, and will set his throne above these stones that I have hidden. And he will spread his royal pavilion over them.
=============================
I had heard Titus sieged Jerusalem about the same time the Babylonians did in the OT but I couldn't find the source.......
Josephus actually said Titus ascribed his victory over Jerusalem with the help of God Almighty


The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see:
Rapture refuted

Before their final demolition, however, Titus took, a. survey of the city and its fortifications ; and, while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF.
"Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these ?"
After this he commanded that the city should be commanded razed to its foundations, excepting only the three lofty towers Hippocos, Phasael, and Mariamne, which he suffered to remain as evidences of its strength, and as trophies of his victory. There was left standing, also, a small part of the western wall; as a rampart for a garrison, to keep the surrounding country in subjection. Titus now gave orders that those Jews only who resisted should be slain ; but the soldiers, equally void of pity and remorse, slew even the sick and the aged...............
==========================
Note the 10 horns in Revelation hating the 70AD Harlot, Jerusalem and that God is actually allowing them to burn and desolate Her.........

Revelation 17:
16 And the ten Horns which thou saw and the Beast, these shall be hating the harlot, and shall be making Her desolate and naked, and the fleshes of Her they shall be eating and shall be burning Her in fire.
17 For the GOD gives into their hearts to do the mind of Him, and to do One mind and to give Their kingdom to the Beast until shall be being finished the words of the GOD.

Revelation 18:19
and they cast dust upon their heads, and cried<2896>, lamenting<2799>, weeping and mourning<3996>, saying,
"Woe! woe! the great City! in which are rich all those having ships<4143> in the sea, out of Her preciousness<5094>,
for to one hour was She was desolated<2049>.
======================
Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @

APRIL, A.D. 70 - PHASE ONE
THE ROMAN ARMY ARRIVES AT JERUSALEM TO PREPARE THE SIEGE

The first night of Titus' encampment with the 15th, 3rd and 18th Legions, the 5th Legion arrived from Emmaus and set camp north of the city on Mount Scopus.
Later the next day, the famed 10th Legion (founded by Julius Caesar) marched in from Jericho and camped on the Mount of Olives, east of the city. Instead of waiting to starve the Jews into submission, Titus decides to assault many different parts of the city and overwhelm the defenders. Titus was early on in the middle of the fighting with his soldiers. At least two times, Titus and his detachment are surrounded by defenders, only to escape unharmed.
302812_bd3c4a55a2acc9d0f36c50211f02864f.jpg


 
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BABerean2

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We have read what you have posted before to make your form of Zionist Futurism work........
ist

I am not a supporter of the modern "Zionist" movement, because the land belongs to the one seed found in Galatians 3:16, who is the "heir" in Matthew chapter 21.
If you will look at my past history here, that point will become obvious.

Anyone who is truly a "Partial-Preterist", is also a "Partial-Futurist" based on the rules of this forum, except those of us who claim to be a "Partial-Preterist", but are really a "Full-Preterist" pretending to be a "Partial-Preterist", because they know "Full-Preterism" is not allowed here.


Do you know anyone here who might fit into that category?

.
 
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Douggg

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first appearance/second appearance (to believers only)

1. first appearance was Jesus appearing to believers after the resurrection.

2. second appearance of Jesus is future to believers who are looking for Him, it will be the rapture/resurrection event.


first coming/second coming (to the world at large)


1. first coming was Jesus borne into the world and his life up to his death on the cross.

2. second coming is Jesus coming, returning to the world, as Lord of Lords, King of Kings. With His saints and holy angels.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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ist
Do you know anyone here who might fit into that category?
.
Nope. But I do like to discuss the various views of Preterism.

A favorite Preterist site for, well, Preterists of course:

The Preterist Archive of Realized Eschatology
=======================
I do hop over to this board once in awhile..........I found a term called "hyper preterism" and made a discussion thread on it over on the CCT board.

Controversial Christian Theology

Partial Preterism, Full Preterism vs Hyper Preterism
On another thread, there was this link mentioning F P vs H P.
I have never heard much of H P
Discuss.......


Christ, Israel, and the fall of Jerusalem


Discussion on Consistent Preterism and the Impact of AD70 as the Terminal Date (2015)

quote from site:
"I think we need to distinguish between full preterism and hyper-preterism.
Full preterism is an optimistic eschatology.
Don’t think I can say the same thing about hyper-preterism, which has led some right out of Christianity
"
2018_featured_critical.jpg

"I think we need to distinguish between full preterism and hyper-preterism.
Full preterism is an optimistic eschatology.
Don’t think I can say the same thing about hyper-preterism, which has led some right out of Christianity"


Todd Dennis … the implications of a Full Preterist hermeneutic certainly don’t lead to Universalism or Dispensationalism. However, Full Preterism doesn’t work (from an exegetical standpoint) unless the fulfillment pertained only to the ancient Israelites.


By-gone, old Full Preterist “celebrities” like Max King, Don Preston, Ed Stevens, et al, wouldn’t last 20 minutes in a dialogue or debate with those of us who have a much more comprehensive understanding of the implications of Full Preterism.


The only thing Full Preterism and Dispensationalism have in common is that Don Preston is about as trustworthy as Hal Lindsey. Preston’s “Covenant Eschatology” is as silly as “The Emporer’s New Clothes” and Hal Lindsey’s “Late Great Planet Earth” ran out of dates.
February 25, 2015 at 4:06pm
 
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ewq1938

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It sounds like you're thinking of 2 people sitting on the throne. But God the Father is not visible:

Joh 1:18 No one has seen God at any time. The only Son, who is at the Father’s side, has made Him known.

1Jo 4:12 No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwells in us, and His love is perfected in us.

No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. John 1:18


This phrase is a figure of speech that simply means no one has fully understood or known God except Jesus and that's because Jesus is God's son.





Clarke:


It is likely that the word seen, here, is put for known, as in Joh_3:32; 1Jo_3:2, 1Jo_3:6, and 3Jo_1:11; and this sense the latter clause of the verse seems to require: - No man, how highly soever favored, hath fully known God, at any time, in any nation or age; the only begotten Son


Many people have seen God:

Gen 32:24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
Gen 32:25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
Gen 32:26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
Gen 32:27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
Gen 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
Gen 32:29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Here Jacob not only wrestles with God physically, he also was allowed to see His face and live.


1 Kings 22:19 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.

Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
Exo 33:21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
Exo 33:22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
Exo 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.


Here we see that he does have a face, has a hand, and has "back parts" of a body. Moses was not allowed to see his face, but he saw his hand and saw his "back parts".

Exo 24:9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:
Exo 24:10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
Exo 24:11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.



Isa 6:5 And I said: “Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts!”
 
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ewq1938

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There is no such thing as a first and second "appearance" to believers only and another set of first and second comings to the world at large.

His first appearance/coming was his birth. His resurrection was not his first appearance to anyone.

His second coming will be seen by all and that is when the resurrection and rapture take place.



first appearance/second appearance (to believers only)

1. first appearance was Jesus appearing to believers after the resurrection.

2. second appearance of Jesus is future to believers who are looking for Him, it will be the rapture/resurrection event.


first coming/second coming (to the world at large)


1. first coming was Jesus borne into the world and his life up to his death on the cross.

2. second coming is Jesus coming, returning to the world, as Lord of Lords, King of Kings. With His saints and holy angels.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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There is no such thing as a first and second "appearance" to believers only and another set of first and second comings to the world at large.
His first appearance/coming was his birth. His resurrection was not his first appearance to anyone.
His second coming will be seen by all and that is when the resurrection and rapture take place.
Resurrection........Rapture.......Harvest.......

Luke 21:27
And then they shall see the Son of the Man, coming in a cloud with power and much glory

Revelation 14:
14 Then I looked, and behold! a white cloud,
and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another Messenger came out of the Sanctuary, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Thrust in Thy sickle and reap! for the time has come for Thou to reap! for the Harvest of the land is ripe.” 16 So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the land and the land was reaped.
Joe 3:13 Put in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe. Come, go down; For the winepress is full, The vats overflow—For their wickedness is great.”
Revelation 11:12 And they hear a Voice great out of the Heaven saying to them "ascend ye here!" And they ascended into the heaven in the cloud....
 
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