Peter the Rock / Protestant and Catholic

Is Peter The Rock of the Church?

  • Yes

    Votes: 15 30.6%
  • No

    Votes: 34 69.4%

  • Total voters
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concretecamper

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Since YOU follow Scripture, YOUR comment, now please post those Scriptures that say what I have asked you.
You simply do not understand. Until you show me where Jesus commands us to follow the Bible, your thought process is illogical.

Jesus commanded us to listen to the Church, the Church teaches, scripture is part of this teaching, scripture implicitly or explicitly confirms what the Church teaches.

It is not a stretch to say you follow Pope Major since according to you your interpretation of scripture is correct. Go ahead, act that way, but dont argue with all of us who reject your novel ideas.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Much that's from the sacred texts of other world religions are in that same category then.

You'll have to excuse me, but I have to get ready to bathe in the Ganges. The Bible doesn't specifically condemn that act, so it must be equally as valid as what the Bible directs.

:destroyed:

No not exactly because they weren’t ratified by an ecumenical council of men devoted to serving God.
 
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Albion

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No not exactly because they weren’t ratified by an ecumenical council of men devoted to serving God.
I was commenting on what you wrote before--that tradition is authoritative and equal to Scripture, not that Ecumenical Councils are. By the way, some of the dogmas that have been declared on the basis of Tradition have not been affirmed by any Ecumenical Council.
 
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BNR32FAN

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I was commenting on what you wrote before--that tradition is authoritative and equal to Scripture, not that Ecumenical Councils are. By the way, some of the dogmas that have been declared on the basis of Tradition have not been affirmed by any Ecumenical Council.

That’s interesting thanks for sharing. Which would those be?
 
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com7fy8

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And please, dont go down the language error route and say "little pebble".
It is written,

"no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ." (in 1 Corinthians 3:11)

And our Apostle Peter says >

"Coming to Him as a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood" (in 1 Peter 2:4-6).

So, Peter himself says we are "living stones" and "a holy priesthood". He says Jesus is "a living stone", and we "also". So, there is conforming to the image of Jesus shown here. God wants us to be as much like Jesus as is possible with God. Plus, Jesus Himself in His own prayer claims how we are loved by our Father > "as You have loved Me", Jesus Himself guarantees in the Lord's prayer in John 17. So, even if our positions in this priesthood are different, we are all loved as our Father loves His own Son Jesus ! ! !

So, ones of the true priesthood of Jesus are ministering our attention and us to this . . . not only to arguing about and proving and disproving beliefs which do not help us to this such sharing with our Groom Jesus.

Plus, our Apostle Peter says, to leaders . . .

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

I understand an example is someone who is the way we all can be, and God wants this. And Peter says we are Jesus Christ's "holy priesthood".

And who is our example of priesthood? Yes, Jesus is. And how, among other ways, has Jesus functioned as our High Priest?

"For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin." (Hebrews 4:15)

Jesus our High Priest and example of priesthood has gone through things we go through in this life, so that now He as our Groom can feel for us, and bless us with how grace made Jesus able to go through it all - - - to do so well in loving while going through all Jesus did and suffered. He is our example > how now we use things we go through, in order to help us feel for others and then minister to them the grace which makes us succeed in submitting to God and loving any and all people while we go through things. Jesus used His things for loving and honoring God and loving any and all people; so this is how we use things we go through . . . in our Father's all-loving creativity for doing good to each and every person.

This is basic Catholic, what the Bible says, in my opinion. But there are ones keeping attention elsewhere, claiming they are Catholic or not > Galatians 4:17.

But our Apostle Paul says what qualifies a man to "take care of the church of God" > 1 Timothy 3:1-10. A man needs to be proven in his own home first, to see if he is able to do well in marriage and with his wife to bring up their children well. He needs to demonstrate in real life, not only with say-so, that he knows how to take care of people in our Heavenly Father's family caring and sharing way. And, of course, in learning how to love and not to abuse his family with arguing and complaining (Philippians 2:13-16), he becomes "blameless" (1 Timothy 3:1-10) the way God's love changes us to "become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation" > see, again, Philippians 2:13-16.

But we see how ones claiming to be the Catholic Church do not give attention to this basic of how a man becomes qualified to care for God's people. He and his wife go through the things of marriage and bringing up children, so now they can feel for others and help other couples and single people preparing for marriage. And as a "blameless" person he also can help celibates, including helping them learn how to love in a close relationship. So, by going through things, in order to help others through things, he is following the priesthood example of Christ who went through things of this life so now He can be our High Priest > as Hebrews 4:15 does say.

And we all do this, using our experience to help us feel for others and to minister the grace which we have gained through it all.

"As each one has received the gift, minister it to one another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God." (1 Peter 4:10)

"Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, except what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers." (Ephesians 4:29)

Plus, our Apostle Paul directs us to "first of all" make "intercessions" "for all men" > please see 1 Timothy 2:1-4. And intercession is a priesthood function of Jesus "who also makes intercession for us." (in Romans 8:34) ! ! ! Jesus in us > Galatians 2:20 > lives His priesthood through us. So, all of us in Jesus are in His functioning priesthood. But we need mature family men to be our "examples" whom we can present to the public, while we too feed on their example :)

But there are individuals who call our attention elsewhere . . . mainly to exalting and proving their own groups. Not only ones of some one group do this. Attention, beware!!

But our real "examples to the flock" (1 Peter 5:3) can be in groups and the same churches, even, with ones not exactly. So, Jesus makes us able to tell the difference > John 10:1-30 > 1 Corinthians 11:18-19. So, we have no excuse for getting fooled into going along with wrong people. We need to make sure our attention is first with ones who help us walk in submission to God in His own peace > James 4:7, Colossians 3:15, while we love the way Jesus in us has us discovering how to love any and all people > Ephesians 4:2, Ephesians 4:31-5:2, with hope for any person, at all, like how Jesus on the cross had hope for any wrong person, at all > love "hopes all things" (in 1 Corinthians 13:7).

What I mean by grace, by the way, is God's redeeming action creating excellence in our character > so we are pleasing and submissive to God like Jesus in us shares with us, while He also shares with us, in us, how He loves any and all people, sharing as family with one another, while caring for any and all others. This is basic, ministered by leaders who are qualified, to us and through us who follow their example.
 
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concretecamper

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It has been explained here before, but there is more than a little irony in these claims made by the RCC.

It is a key that was was given in the OT, but it's keys in the NT, so these are not parallel anyway.

But beyond that, the Papacy makes a big deal out of there being not one but two keys. The crossed keys are used in Roman Catholic imagery and the church even has invented a specific meaning for each of the two keys. Yet at the same time, we are expected to believe that one key in the OT holds the same meaning.
of course you are entitled to your opinion. Since all you wrote here is YOUR opinion, we all will take it as such.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Well, it wasn't promulgated until the 1870s, so it was past the time where there were any Ecumenical Councils. ;)

Wow is that true? I thought this was an issue during Rome’s claim to papal supremacy but I could be mistaken. It seems a bit ironic that they would make the claim of papal infallibility the very same year they finally put an end to the inquisitions.
 
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Major1

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You simply do not understand. Until you show me where Jesus commands us to follow the Bible, your thought process is illogical.

Jesus commanded us to listen to the Church, the Church teaches, scripture is part of this teaching, scripture implicitly or explicitly confirms what the Church teaches.

It is not a stretch to say you follow Pope Major since according to you your interpretation of scripture is correct. Go ahead, act that way, but dont argue with all of us who reject your novel ideas.

Your sarcasm seems to know no boundaries.

I can post them but what does it matter. You will reject them just as you have done in the past so what is the point????

Matt. 5:18...……….
"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished".

John 10:35...……….
"The Scripture cannot be broken,".

Matt. 22:29...…….
"You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God,".

John 17:17............
"Your word is truth,".
 
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concretecamper

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Your sarcasm seems to know no boundaries
it is not sacarsim. It is a reflection on the way you are acting/act. You reject any ideas that arent yours or doenst conform to your ideas. You refuse to be taught.
 
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Major1

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The traditions mentioned here are in reference to contradicting the scriptures. The traditions your listing do not contradict the scriptures. They simply can’t be supported by them.

You are by your comment you are ......RATIONALIZING"."

The traditions I listed are doctrinal teaching by the RCC and they They are simply not contradictions to the Bible...…….they NOT BIBLICAL at all!

Support does not exist because there is nothing in the Bible at all about those doctrines. Therefore the RCC is propagating teaching which do not exist and then claim that they are Christian. That is not possible my friend and that is
RATIONALIZATION.
 
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concretecamper

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Wow is that true? I thought this was an issue during Rome’s claim to papal supremacy but I could be mistaken. It seems a bit ironic that they would make the claim of papal infallibility the very same year they finally put an end to the inquisitions.
Papal infallibility was infallably declared by the Bishops of Vatican I. However, it was certainly understood since the founding of the Church. What do you think all the "to do" about Peter and the Popes is about. Read Church history and you will discover papal supremacy.....that's what the EO complained about since the beginnings of the Church.
 
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BNR32FAN

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It has been explained here before, but there is more than a little irony in these claims made by the RCC.

It is a key that was was given in the OT, but it's keys in the NT, so these are not parallel anyway.

But beyond that, the Papacy makes a big deal out of there being not one but two keys. The crossed keys are used in Roman Catholic imagery and the church even has invented a specific meaning for each of the two keys. Yet at the same time, we are expected to believe that one key in the OT holds the same meaning.

The same Greek word used is also used in other verses in both singular and plural form. So it’s inconclusive as to whether Jesus said key or keys.
 
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BNR32FAN

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You are by your comment you are ......RATIONALIZING"."

The traditions I listed are doctrinal teaching by the RCC and they They are simply not contradictions to the Bible...…….they NOT BIBLICAL at all!

Support does not exist because there is nothing in the Bible at all about those doctrines. Therefore the RCC is propagating teaching which do not exist and then claim that they are Christian. That is not possible my friend and that is
RATIONALIZATION.

Again your accusing someone of lying with absolutely no proof.
 
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BNR32FAN

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You are by your comment you are ......RATIONALIZING"."

The traditions I listed are doctrinal teaching by the RCC and they They are simply not contradictions to the Bible...…….they NOT BIBLICAL at all!

Support does not exist because there is nothing in the Bible at all about those doctrines. Therefore the RCC is propagating teaching which do not exist and then claim that they are Christian. That is not possible my friend and that is
RATIONALIZATION.

And if Peter told the Pharisees that Jesus is the Son of God there’s not a shred of evidence in the Old Testament to support his claim. So does that mean that Peter is lying or teaching falsely?
 
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Major1

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What do you think about this verse?

“And all the country of Judea was going out to him, and all the people of Jerusalem; and they were being baptized by him in the Jordan River, confessing their sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:5‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Was everyone in Judea and Jerusalem baptized by John the baptist?

Surely you know that the Bible specifically says that both Enoch and Elijah did not die.

I do not think anything about Marj 1:5. It is what is referred to as "hyperbole".

It is clear what took pplace to me. Was EVERONE baptized in Judea....NO!

" and were all baptized of him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins"; means that is, as many of them as were brought to a sight and sense of their sins, and made a confession of them, these he baptized, or immersed, in the river Jordan.

He uses the word "ALL" to describe the response to John's preaching.

"The translation "All the people of Judea were going out and were being Baptized" more clearly brings out the significance of the imperfect tense used in the Greek.

"Confessing" comes from 2 Greek words which used together means...….
"To say the same thing as".

Real confession is not just admitting to guilt but it places the same appeal upon it that God places on it.

YES...….the Bible surely tells us that Enoch and Elijah did not die.
But that same Bible does NOT TELL us that Mary DID NOT DIE.

To say and believe that Mary did not die because Enoch and Elijah is the height of "Adding to the Word of God".
 
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BNR32FAN

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You are by your comment you are ......RATIONALIZING"."

The traditions I listed are doctrinal teaching by the RCC and they They are simply not contradictions to the Bible...…….they NOT BIBLICAL at all!

Support does not exist because there is nothing in the Bible at all about those doctrines. Therefore the RCC is propagating teaching which do not exist and then claim that they are Christian. That is not possible my friend and that is
RATIONALIZATION.

What I don’t understand is that we see so many examples of devine revelation throughout the Bible so why do you believe that this cannot continue?
 
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Major1

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Again your accusing someone of lying with absolutely no proof.

NOT SO at all.

Rationalization is the use of feeble but seemingly plausible arguments either to justify something that is difficult to accept or to make it seem ‘not so bad after all'.

Rationalization would be like a prophet who said the world was going to end on April 1, 2019 but when it did not happen, his followers accepted the failure by insisting that it was their prayers which caused the prophesy not to come true.
 
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