"associate with those you can learn from".
How's that going for you? I see a lot of posts in this thread which could be educational for you. Are you taking the opportunity to learn, or are you still arguing and refusing to learn?
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Human & Ape Inquiry
- Thread starter inquiring mind
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How's that going for you? I see a lot of posts in this thread which could be educational for you. Are you taking the opportunity to learn, or are you still arguing and refusing to learn?
I'm reading posts and learning.
You didn't answer my question - are you taking time to learn or just arguing and refusing to learn?
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klutedavid
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Finally a thread that I can comment on.
Look at my avatar.
Yes, that's right. I am your father.
Us monkeys were around for millions of years before you folk dropped from the branches, and started walking around.
You heard us shouting at you not to start walking around on the ground. We called out that nothing good will come of this!
You would not listen and now look at you, your destroying the planet. Stupid monkeys return to the trees now, that's if, you can find any trees to climb.
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Ha, yes, I heard of a guy who experienced similar delusional symptoms after going to a ‘Planet of the Apes’ movie marathon… wore one of those masks, jumped around swinging his arms wildly and everything, but supposedly he got over it in a little while. Everyone did comment on how easy it was to make a monkey of yourself though.
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I've read over the article, and I think you have been perfectly honest and clear in representing the arguments presented there.
The entire article just assumes the existence of created kinds and offers up a few examples, like dog/wolf or great cat varieties.
The problem is that there is still no definition or method of detecting or defining the barrier between kinds.
A cat and dog are clearly much more similar to each other then either is to a lizard, and with genetics and evolution there is a coherent explanation for the pattern of similarities. Special creation and created kinds do not have that explanatory power, they are a hand wave to justify events that are taken on faith regardless of any other evidence.
Please explain how the qualifier changes the concept in any way? I'd very much like to see what I'm missing in this argument.
Perhaps I'm using unclear language, if so I apologise.
When I request an exhaustive example it needs to actually clearly define the kind barrier. If your example might or might not apply it doesn't do that.
In many cases creationists seem accept that mutations can add new traits so allowing a single kind to rapidly diversify into multiple distinct kinds.
This ends up with accepting the mechanisms necessary for evolution... so a kind barrier must be demonstrated to support kinds. I've never seen such evidence presented. Does it exist? Can you present it?
(This is only one variety of Creationist genetics, another is that the genomes of base kinds are able to hold thousands of phenotypes simultaneously, but this is radically inconsistent with how we know genetics and reproduction work).
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The big question with the support of macroevolution for me is not its mechanisms. Theoretically, they are quite defined in relationship to the great unknown… ‘time,’ and lots of it. But, that much time makes for a lot of weak evidence (surely you won’t argue that). Scientists have no problem with the concept of time and space bending, the possibility of anti-matter reactors bending it, worm holes, and the like, making distances and therefore time passage much shorter. But to suggest God doing it on a shorter time scale with creation is considered ridiculous, with the only difference being the operative word ‘God,’ and His omnipotence (no proof you say, when you readily admit science can’t prove anything). Some form of that concept could be God’s mechanism for ‘Kind’ (as well as other things), appearing all at once, fully formed, no descent from a last common ancestor... and would lay the groundwork for the basic ‘Kind’ barrier I gave you earlier:
1. General rule of thumb is if two things can breed they're the same created kind.
2. If two animals can produce a hybrid, then they're the same kind.
3. The inability to produce offspring doesn't rule out the possibility that animals may be the same kind, as it may be the result of mutations since the Fall.
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Speedwell
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You are still trying to make your defense of a literal reading of Genesis into a contest between theism and atheism when it is no such thing. You are being dishonest and your dishonesty undercuts whatever credibility your arguments may have.
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pitabread
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By this definition every single life form on the planet is the same 'kind'.
This is the problem with creationist definitions thereof. They have no way of determining if two organisms are not the same kind.
(As an aside I thought you were a progressive creationist who accepts deep time, whereas you appear to be cribbing all your responses from young Earth sources. Most of your responses in this thread seem like they are taken directly from AiG or CMI.)
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No need to read beyond this silly, debunked nonsense offered up by the person that has already acknowledged that he is biased and will never change his mind.
Go figure.
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So then surely you can provide us with verified, corroborated evidence that many people witnessed the emergence of the 1000+ species of bat from the 2 original 'kinds' post-ark, some 4500 years ago, or at an average pace of a new bat species every 4.5 years.
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Ah, mutations from the fall....
God's CURSE on all humanity for all time because of ...something...
I wonder how Bodie and Georgia accommodate the fact that we have a couple of mutation repair systems - did Satan put those in there?
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Praise creation science!
Not at all.
Georgia and Bodie still probably cling to the lie that macroevolution is "an event."
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That wasn't how I said it... now you're using each other's quotes for rebuttal.
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