THE TRUE "REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY/SUPERSESSIONISM" OF THE BIBLE

jgr · Oct 13, 2019

Contenders Edge said:
You mean to say that the Catholics have not been at odds with the Protestants regarding the identity of the Church among other things? Why was there even a reformation if that was the case? And what about the Waldensians? Why were they so heavily persecuted by the Catholic Church if they had been in agreement concerning the identity of the Church? And why did the Calvinists and Lutherans persecute the Anabaptists if there was such unity?

Over the centuries of the Middle Ages, the Catholic church degenerated into the apostate papacy.

Do you think that an apostate papacy was a defender of the true faith?

Do you think that an apostate papacy qualified as an authority about the identity of the true Church?

But neither the earlier Catholic church nor even the later apostate papacy ever declared God's Chosen People to be anything other than the NT Church exclusively.

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 13, 2019

jgr said:
Do you think that the apostate papacy was a defender of the true faith?

Hello jgr.....do you happen to view Rome and the Papacy in Revelation and that they are still apostate? Just wondering.........

Pope and Jews wear akippa:

Reve 18:16 "woe! woe! THE GREAT CITY arrayed with PURPLE AND FINE LINEN / JERUSALEM 70AD?

Pope wears purple..........Reve 17 and 18

Revelation 17: 4
And the Woman was having been arrayed with purple and scarlet/crimson<2847> and gilded<5558> to gold, and precious<5093 stone, and pearls<3135>, having a golden Cup in Her hand, replete of abominations and uncleanness<169> of Her whoredom,

12 Cargo of gold and silver, and precious stone and pearl and fine linen and purple, [Luke 16:19/Revelation 18:16] and silk, and scarlet, and all thyne wood, and every vessel of ivory, and every vessel of most precious wood and brass and iron and marble
16 and saying, Woe! woe! the great City, that was having been arrayed with fine linen, <1039> and purple,<4210> [Luke 16:19/Revelation 18:12] and scarlet, and have been gilded in gold and precious stone and pearls, That to one hour was desolated<2049> the so much riches.

jgr · Oct 13, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
Hello jgr.....do you happen to view Rome and the Papacy in Revelation and that they are still apostate? Just wondering.........

Pope and Jews wear akippa:

Reve 18:16 "woe! woe! THE GREAT CITY arrayed with PURPLE AND FINE LINEN / JERUSALEM 70AD?

Pope wears purple..........Reve 17 and 18

Revelation 17: 4
And the Woman was having been arrayed with purple and scarlet/crimson<2847> and gilded<5558> to gold, and precious<5093 stone, and pearls<3135>, having a golden Cup in Her hand, replete of abominations and uncleanness<169> of Her whoredom,

12 Cargo of gold and silver, and precious stone and pearl and fine linen and purple, [Luke 16:19/Revelation 18:16] and silk, and scarlet, and all thyne wood, and every vessel of ivory, and every vessel of most precious wood and brass and iron and marble
16 and saying, Woe! woe! the great City, that was having been arrayed with fine linen, <1039> and purple,<4210> [Luke 16:19/Revelation 18:12] and scarlet, and have been gilded in gold and precious stone and pearls, That to one hour was desolated<2049> the so much riches.

Hi LLoJ; they no longer slaughter Christians, but neither have they renounced many of the doctrines characterizing their historical apostasy.

There are unquestionably many genuine children of God within the RC church, but as much in spite of the church as because of it.

There is sufficient Scripture which seems to suggest continuing and ultimately terminal apostasy, as the Reformers believed.

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 13, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
Hello jgr.....do you happen to view Rome and the Papacy in Revelation and that they are still apostate? Just wondering.........

jgr said:
Hi LLoJ; they no longer slaughter Christians, but neither have they renounced many of the doctrines characterizing their historical apostasy.

There are unquestionably many genuine children of God within the RC church, but as much in spite of the church as because of it.

There is sufficient Scripture which seems to suggest continuing and ultimately terminal apostasy, as the Reformers believed.

Hello jgr.
There are some that still view Rome in Revelation and why I made this thread in order to get others eschatological views.
Have you seen this thread? Please and respond when you have time. Thanks.

What great City is being symbolized in Revelation?

Is Jerusalem 70 ad the great City in Revelation?

*
Yes
6 vote(s)
24.0%
No
13 vote(s)
52.0%
Maybe
1 vote(s)
4.0%
Never thought about it that way
0 vote(s)
0.0%
I don't know, but am willing to learn
0 vote(s)
0.0%
Why does it matter?
0 vote(s)
0.0%
Other [please explaine]
4 vote(s)
16.0%
It is Rome
1 vote(s)
4.0%

BABerean2 · Oct 13, 2019

Contenders Edge said:
Does the judgment begin with a resurrection? How many resurrections are mentioned in the twentieth chapter? And what resurrections are they?

The two resurrections are found below, as described by the Son of God.

The first resurrection in John chapter 5 is the spiritual resurrection found in the verse below.

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

The second resurrection found in John chapter 5 is found below. It is the "hour" of the bodily resurrection and judgment of "all" the dead.

Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

The same man who recorded these words of Christ also recorded Revelation chapter 20.

.

BABerean2 · Oct 13, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
Yep.......if you believe Josephus's writings..........

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!

I have read the writings of Holford, and those of Josephus.
Neither confirm what you are claiming.

Normally a person would read a book, before they make a claim about it.

.

Contenders Edge · Oct 13, 2019

jgr said:
Over the centuries of the Middle Ages, the Catholic church degenerated into the apostate papacy.

Do you think that an apostate papacy was a defender of the true faith?

Do you think that an apostate papacy qualified as an authority about the identity of the true Church?

But neither the earlier Catholic church nor even the later apostate papacy ever declared God's Chosen People to be anything other than the NT Church exclusively.

That is beside the point. There was a reason for the reformation, why there arose factions within the protestant movement, and why there were Christians who never gave their allegiance to the Roman Catholic Church, and why there was a schism out of which the Orthodox Church was formed and these divisions were over very fundamental doctrines which did and still include the identity of the Church and its role.

Contenders Edge · Oct 13, 2019

BABerean2 said:
The first resurrection in John chapter 5 is the spiritual resurrection found in the verse below.
The second resurrection found in John chapter 5 is found below. It is the "hour" of the bodily resurrection and judgment of "all" the dead.
The same man who recorded these words of Christ also recorded Revelation chapter 20.

John called the resurrection of the saints at the beginning of the thousand year reign the first resurrection, but how could it be simply a resurrection of the spirit if the first resurrection is of those who had died in faith prior to that first resurrection he described?

jgr · Oct 14, 2019

Contenders Edge said:
That is beside the point. There was a reason for the reformation, why there arose factions within the protestant movement, and why there were Christians who never gave their allegiance to the Roman Catholic Church, and why there was a schism out of which the Orthodox Church was formed and these divisions were over very fundamental doctrines which did and still include the identity of the Church and its role.

It is precisely the point.

Martin Luther on Galatians 6:16

Lectures on Galatians, 1519.[8] "Walk" is the same verb that is used above (5:25). "Walk," that is, go, by this rule. By what rule? It is this rule, that they are new creatures in Christ, that they shine with the true righteousness and holiness which come from faith, and that they do not deceive themselves and others with the hypocritical righteousness and holiness which come from the Law. Upon the latter there will be wrath and tribulation, and upon the former will rest peace and mercy. Paul adds the words "upon the Israel of God." He distinguishes this Israel from the Israel after the flesh, just as in 1 Cor. 10:18 he speaks of those who are the Israel of the flesh, not the Israel of God. Therefore peace is upon Gentiles and Jews, provided that they go by the rule of faith and the Spirit.

Lectures on Galatians, 1535.[9] "Upon the Israel of God." Here Paul attacks the false apostles and the Jews, who boasted about their fathers, their election, the Law, etc. (Rom. 9:4-5). It is as though he were saying: "The Israel of God are not the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel but those who, with Abraham the believer (3:9), believe in the promises of God now disclosed in Christ, whether they are Jews or Gentiles."

John Calvin on Galatians 6:16

Upon the Israel of God. This is an indirect ridicule of the vain boasting of the false apostles, who vaunted of being the descendants of Abraham according to the flesh. There are two classes who bear this name, a pretended Israel, which appears to be so in the sight of men, and the Israel of God. Circumcision was a disguise before men, but regeneration is a truth before God. In a word, he gives the appellation of the Israel of God to those whom he formerly denominated the children of Abraham by faith (Galatians 3:29), and thus includes all believers, whether Jews or Gentiles, who were united into one church.

Luther's 95 theses mention "church" eleven times, but not once is there any hint of disagreement with the papacy regarding the Church's identity, as expressed in his and Calvin's commentaries on Galatians 6:16.

There was virtual unanimity from the 2nd century to the 18th century (e.g. Martyr, Irenaeus, Luther, Calvin, Wesley, et al) .

Disagreement only began to appear coincident with dispensationalism's appearance in the 19th century.

There is no recognized defender of the true faith between the 2nd and 18th centuries who rejected the aforecited understanding expressed by Justin Martyr and Irenaeus.

BABerean2 · Oct 14, 2019

Contenders Edge said:
John called the resurrection of the saints at the beginning of the thousand year reign the first resurrection, but how could it be simply a resurrection of the spirit if the first resurrection is of those who had died in faith prior to that first resurrection he described?

Because Revelation 20 is full of symbolic language, and because it agrees with what the Apostle John had already recorded in John 5:24.

You and I, and all of the "souls" described in Revelation chapter 20 have already been through the "first" resurrection found in John 5:24, when we came to faith in Christ.

And because of the other passages of the New Testament which prove the Pre-mill doctrine cannot be correct.

.

Contenders Edge · Oct 14, 2019

jgr said:
It is precisely the point.

Martin Luther on Galatians 6:16

Lectures on Galatians, 1519.[8] "Walk" is the same verb that is used above (5:25). "Walk," that is, go, by this rule. By what rule? It is this rule, that they are new creatures in Christ, that they shine with the true righteousness and holiness which come from faith, and that they do not deceive themselves and others with the hypocritical righteousness and holiness which come from the Law. Upon the latter there will be wrath and tribulation, and upon the former will rest peace and mercy. Paul adds the words "upon the Israel of God." He distinguishes this Israel from the Israel after the flesh, just as in 1 Cor. 10:18 he speaks of those who are the Israel of the flesh, not the Israel of God. Therefore peace is upon Gentiles and Jews, provided that they go by the rule of faith and the Spirit.

Lectures on Galatians, 1535.[9] "Upon the Israel of God." Here Paul attacks the false apostles and the Jews, who boasted about their fathers, their election, the Law, etc. (Rom. 9:4-5). It is as though he were saying: "The Israel of God are not the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel but those who, with Abraham the believer (3:9), believe in the promises of God now disclosed in Christ, whether they are Jews or Gentiles."

John Calvin on Galatians 6:16

Upon the Israel of God. This is an indirect ridicule of the vain boasting of the false apostles, who vaunted of being the descendants of Abraham according to the flesh. There are two classes who bear this name, a pretended Israel, which appears to be so in the sight of men, and the Israel of God. Circumcision was a disguise before men, but regeneration is a truth before God. In a word, he gives the appellation of the Israel of God to those whom he formerly denominated the children of Abraham by faith (Galatians 3:29), and thus includes all believers, whether Jews or Gentiles, who were united into one church.

Luther's 95 theses mention "church" eleven times, but not once is there any hint of disagreement with the papacy regarding the Church's identity, as expressed in his and Calvin's commentaries on Galatians 6:16.

There was virtual unanimity from the 2nd century to the 18th century (e.g. Martyr, Irenaeus, Luther, Calvin, Wesley, et al) .

Disagreement only began to appear coincident with dispensationalism's appearance in the 19th century.

There is no recognized defender of the true faith between the 2nd and 18th centuries who rejected the aforecited understanding expressed by Justin Martyr and Irenaeus.

Your citations may prove that this was the prevailing view amongst the Lutheran and Calvinist Protestant factions and was unanimously accepted by the Catholic Church, but what about the Anabaptists who were persecuted by both Catholics and the dominating Protestant factions? What about the Waldenses who were heavily persecuted by the Catholic Church even fore the reformation? What were their thoughts? What about the Pilgrims or Puritans?

And why do you keep insisting that Irenaeus believed the Church to have replaced Israel when you have not provided a source that shows him stating such?

Contenders Edge · Oct 14, 2019

BABerean2 said:
Because Revelation 20 is full of symbolic language, and because it agrees with what the Apostle John had already recorded in John 5:24.

You and I, and all of the "souls" described in Revelation chapter 20 have already been through the "first" resurrection found in John 5:24, when we came to faith in Christ.

And because of the other passages of the New Testament which prove the Pre-mill doctrine cannot be correct.

.

There is no textual evidence that Revelation 20 is intended to be symbolic since anything meant to be symbolic and metaphorical also comes with an interpretation. And these souls who are a part of the first resurrection described in chapter 20 had already died in faith beforehand and yet according to the cited passage in the Gospel of John, those who have come to faith have already undergone their spiritual resurrection.

And if compared to the context of Revelation 20, these who had undergone the spiritual resurrection described in John 5:24 had died afterwards and were brought back to life in what John calls the first resurrection. How can you have two spiritual resurrections?

BABerean2 · Oct 14, 2019

Contenders Edge said:
And if compared to the context of Revelation 20, these who had undergone the spiritual resurrection described in John 5:24 had died afterwards and were brought back to life in what John calls the first resurrection. How can you have two spiritual resurrections?

That is a great question coming from someone who believes the Pre-trib doctrine.
How can there be a first bodily resurrection in Revelation chapter 20, if there was a bodily resurrection 7 years before in the Pre-trib removal of the Church?

Pastor Irvin Baxter abandoned the Pretrib doctrine because of Revelation chapter 20.
However, I do not agree with everything Pastor Baxter says, because he continues to promote much of the Dispensational timeline.

.

Contenders Edge · Oct 14, 2019

BABerean2 said:
That is a great question coming from someone who believes the Pre-trib doctrine.
How can there be a first bodily resurrection in Revelation chapter 20, if there was a bodily resurrection 7 years before in the Pre-trib removal of the Church?

Pastor Irvin Baxter abandoned the Pretrib doctrine because of Revelation chapter 20.
However, I do not agree with everything Pastor Baxter says, because he continues to promote much of the Dispensational timeline.

.

It is perhaps a leading factor into why some within the Dispensationalist camp adhere to what is known as a post-trib rapture but this has problems of its own as well. But that does not change the fact that a symbolic interpretation of Revelation 20 has its own flaws in that they who have part in the first resurrection have already undergone their spiritual resurrection beforehand when they came to faith in Christ.

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 14, 2019

BABerean2 said: ↑
That is a great question coming from someone who believes the Pre-trib doctrine.
How can there be a first bodily resurrection in Revelation chapter 20, if there was a bodily resurrection 7 years before in the Pre-trib removal of the Church?

Contenders Edge said:
There is no textual evidence that Revelation 20 is intended to be symbolic since anything meant to be symbolic and metaphorical also comes with an interpretation. How can you have two spiritual resurrections?

Interesting posts.

Wouldn't the 1st resurrection be of the "2 witnesses" in Revelation 11:11?
It appears to be a fulfillment of Ezekiel 37:10/Luke 2:34 concerning the whole House of Israel [both Judah and Israel]?

5975 `amad aw-mad' a primitive root;
to stand, in various relations (literal and figurative, intransitive and transitive):-

Ezekiel 37:
10 And I prophecy as He instructed and the spirit/breath is coming in them and they are living and are standing<5975> on their feet, an army/host, great, exceedingly-exceedingly.
11 And He is saying to me "Son of Adam, the bones, these are whole house of Yisra'el they behold! ones saying ' bones of us dry, our hope perishes, we are severed to ourselves'. [Luke 2:34/ Revelation 11:11]

Luke 2:34
And Simon blesses them and said toward Mariam His mother,
"behold! this-One is set/lying into a Fall and Resurrection/standing-up<386> of many in the Israel, and into a Sign being spoken against"
========================
Lazarus was also dead for 3 and half days.........

Lazarus and 2 witnesses of Reve 11 similarity

Jhn 11:39
Jesus said, “Take away the stone.” Martha, the sister of him who was dead, said to Him, “Lord, by this time there is a stench, for he has been dead four days.”

Revelation 11:
11 And after the three days and half days, a breath of life out of the God entered in them and they stand<2476> upon their feet [Ezekiel 37:10]
and fear great fall upon the ones observing them.
12 And they hear a Voice great out of the Heaven saying to them "ascend ye here!" And they ascended into the heaven in the cloud....

Revelation 20:5
The rest of the dead not live until should be being finished<5055> the thousand years,
This is the first Resurrection<386>
===============================
Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

386. anastasis an-as'-tas-is from 450;
a standing up again, i.e. (literally) a resurrection from death (individual, genitive case or by implication, (its author)), or (figuratively) a (moral) recovery (of spiritual truth):--raised to life again, resurrection, rise from the dead, that should rise, rising again.
450. anistemi an-is'-tay-mee from 303 and 2476;
to stand up (literal or figurative, transitive or intransitive):--arise, lift up, raise up (again), rise (again), stand up(-right)
303. ana an-ah' a primary preposition and adverb;
properly, up; but (by extension) used (distributively) severally, or (locally) at (etc.):
2476. histemi his'-tay-mee a prolonged form of a primary stao stah'-o (of the same meaning, and used for it in certain tenses);
to stand (transitively or intransitively),

BABerean2 · Oct 14, 2019

Contenders Edge said:
a post-trib rapture but this has problems of its own as well.

Not in comparison to the Pre-Trib doctrine...

.

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 14, 2019

BABerean2 said: ↑
The first resurrection in John chapter 5 is the spiritual resurrection found in the verse below.
The second resurrection found in John chapter 5 is found below. It is the "hour" of the bodily resurrection and judgment of "all" the dead.
The same man who recorded these words of Christ also recorded Revelation chapter 20.

Contenders Edge said: ↑
John called the resurrection of the saints at the beginning of the thousand year reign the first resurrection, but how could it be simply a resurrection of the spirit if the first resurrection is of those who had died in faith prior to that first resurrection he described?

BABerean2 said: ↑
Because Revelation 20 is full of symbolic language, and because it agrees with what the Apostle John had already recorded in John 5:24.

You and I, and all of the "souls" described in Revelation chapter 20 have already been through the "first" resurrection found in John 5:24, when we came to faith in Christ.

And because of the other passages of the New Testament which prove the Pre-mill doctrine cannot be correct.

Contenders Edge said: ↑
And if compared to the context of Revelation 20, these who had undergone the spiritual resurrection described in John 5:24 had died afterwards and were brought back to life in what John calls the first resurrection. How can you have two spiritual resurrections?

BABerean2 said: ↑
That is a great question coming from someone who believes the Pre-trib doctrine.
How can there be a first bodily resurrection in Revelation chapter 20, if there was a bodily resurrection 7 years before in the Pre-trib removal of the Church?

Pastor Irvin Baxter abandoned the Pretrib doctrine because of Revelation chapter 20.
However, I do not agree with everything Pastor Baxter says, because he continues to promote much of the Dispensational timeline.

Contenders Edge said:
It is perhaps a leading factor into why some within the Dispensationalist camp adhere to what is known as a post-trib rapture but this has problems of its own as well. But that does not change the fact that a symbolic interpretation of Revelation 20 has its own flaws in that they who have part in the first resurrection have already undergone their spiritual resurrection beforehand when they came to faith in Christ.

Post Trib - Pre Wrath is the correct view.......
Btw, what is the difference between tribulation and wrath?

1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God has not appointed us to suffer wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. 10 He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with Him. 11 Therefore encourage and build one another up, just as you are already doing.

2 Corinthians 1:4 who comforts us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort those who are in any trouble, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.

2 Corinthians 11
22 Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they descendants of Abraham? So am I. 23 Are they servants of Christ? I am speaking like I am out of my mind, but I am so much more:
in harder labor,
in more imprisonments,
=================================
John 8:44 `Ye out of a father the Devil are, and the desires of the father of ye, ye are willing to be doing.[Reve 18:14]

Luke 21:12 “But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons<5438>. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name’s sake. [Revelation 2:10]

Revelation 2:10 "tribulation 10 days"

Revelation 2:10 Do not be fearing! which-things thou are being about to be suffering.
Behold! the Devil is being about to be casting ye into a prison<5438>, that ye may be being tried. And ye shall be having tribulation ten days,
Be thou becoming faithful until death! and I shall be giving to thee the Crown of the Life.

jgr · Oct 14, 2019

Contenders Edge said:
what about the Anabaptists who were persecuted by both Catholics and the dominating Protestant factions?

There is no evidence that any persecutions were due to disagreement that the true Church is the sole exclusive One People of God.

Persecutions by the apostate papacy were due to refusal to submit to its counterfeit authority and dogmas.

The identity of the true Church as the sole exclusive One People of God was never an issue, as Luther's 95 theses reveal.

Contenders Edge said:
And why do you keep insisting that Irenaeus believed the Church to have replaced Israel when you have not provided a source that shows him stating such?

Your brethren disagree.

https://www.tms.edu/m/tmsj19c.pdf
The Roots of Replacement Theology – Israel My Glory
https://faithalone.org/magazine/y2013/Israel-and-the-Church-Fathers.pdf
REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY - Jerusalem Institute of Justice
The Evil of Replacement Theology

claninja · Oct 14, 2019

Contenders Edge said:
Despite that the attempts at building a third temple might have been done for nefarious purposes and not with any noble intent, a third temple would never make Jesus out to be a false prophet,

Jesus did specifically state that " a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem". Not sure how a 3rd physical temple in the earthly city of Jerusalem would not falsify this claim, as it would be polar opposite of Jesus' words.

John 4:21 Believe Me, woman,” Jesus replied, “a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.

Jesus states the earthly location of Jerusalem is no longer the focal point of worship, dispensationalism and modern day Judiasm state it will be again.

I'll stick with the words of Jesus.

Contenders Edge said:
and if the erection of a third temple were to be successfully done in our day, it would be regarded as scriptural fulfillment.

What NT scripture confirms that the rebuilding of a 3rd physical earthly temple would fulfill scripture?

If anything, we have NT scripture that confirms the body of Christ is the temple being built for the dwelling place of God.

John 2:19-21 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” The Jews then said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?” But he was speaking about the temple of his body

Ephesians 2:20-21 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 6:16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said

Contenders Edge said:
Ezekiel chapters 40-48 clearly speak of another Temple of the likes not ever seen but that is an entire study in and of itself.

As scripture testifies, God spoke to the prophets through visions, dreams, parables and riddles

Numbers 12:6-8 And he said, “Hear my words: If there is a prophet among you, I the Lord make myself known to him in a vision; I speak with him in a dream. Not so with my servant Moses. He is faithful in all my house. With him I speak mouth to mouth, clearly, and not in riddles, and he beholds the form of the Lord. Why then were you not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?

Ezekiel was a prophet of Israel and God spoke to him in visions in regards to Ezekiel 40-47:

Ezekiel 40:2 In visions of God he brought me to the land of Israel, and set me down on a very high mountain, on which was a structure like a city to the south

Using scripture to interpret scripture, we can see that the temple and earthly city of Jerusalem in vision given to Ezekiel in 40-47 are representative of the New Jerusalem (revelation 21-22).

Contenders Edge said:
But the Temple in which Christ will rule, will not be so much as the center of worship as it will be the center of Christ's rulership on the earth.

You've just described the Body of Christ.

nolidad · Oct 14, 2019

BABerean2 said:
Do you believe John was recording the symbolic vision he was given in the Book of Revelation, vs. what Peter was given?

Is Satan a giant flying lizard?

Can Satan be bound with a real chain, unlike the man possessed with a spirit in Mark chapter 5?

Does the fire come at the return of Christ as described in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10?
When does the fire come in Revelation 20?

Does Christ judge both the living and the dead at His appearing as found in 2 Timothy 4:1?
When does the judgment come in Revelation 20?

Is the "time of the judgment of the dead" in Revelation 11:18?

Is the Book of Revelation in chronological order, or is it a series of overlapping visions?

.

BABerean2 said:
Probably, because you quoted me in post #163.

It can be a little confusing here at times...

.

My bad about the confusion! I do apologize! Yes it does get confusing! Answering on 5-6 threads can spin your head at times!

As to your response to contenders edge.

Is Jesus a lamb? of course He is and He is not! Symbols have real definitions and literal fulfillment on earth. The symbols also are all defined by Scripture so we need not look elsewhere or trust some vision of our own to know what they mean.

Satan can be bound with a real chain! We may not understand the spiritual realm and the bindings in the spirit realm, but I don't have a problem with him being bound by some "thing".

As for 2 Tim. 4:1 and REv. 20? the answer is both!

2 Tim. is the survivors of the campaign of Armeggedon and entrance into the millenial kingdom or not. Also the resurrection of Israel of the OT to live in their promised kingdom.

REv. 20 is the final great white throne judgment right before eternity commences (though it has never ceased).

Rev. for nearly all of it is in chronological order. The only overlapping part is portions of 11-14 which start with a quick overview of some things. Otherwise the seals lead to the trumpets which lead to the vials. The seventh seal in Chptr. 8 opens to the trumpets etec.

John recorded His vision long after Peters and may not even know what Peter recorded! Also many people confuse eschatological passages because of similar terms but they occur at different times.
Example- The wrath of God if not modified by modifiers in the passage always refers to the 70th week of Daniel or the Tribulation.

THE TRUE "REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY/SUPERSESSIONISM" OF THE BIBLE

DO YOU AGREE WITH THE OP POST?

Yes

No

I don't know what REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY is

I don't know what SUPERSESSIONISM IS

Does it matter?

Other

I don't know

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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