Foreign Policy: Trade With China Has Turned Into Giving Away Our Values For Their Money

NightHawkeye

Work-in-progress
Supporter
Jul 5, 2010
45,814
10,318
✟781,037.00
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Married
The Federalist has a couple of foreign policy articles today dealing with the current China trade issues.
Trade With China Has Turned Into Giving Away Our Values For Their Money: Free trade with communist nations will defeat every law we have. In a free market with an unfree nation, we have created a competition of systems, and bad systems will drive out good.

The most recent example of American business leaders kowtowing to Chinese Communist Party Chairman Xi Jinping is seen in the way the National Basketball Association cracked down on dissent from one of its employees. The situation is benign enough by American standards: Houston Rockets general manager Daryl Morey tweeted a message of support for the pro-democracy protesters in Hong Kong — just another American praising democracy and peaceful protest.

But support for democracy is far from harmless in the eyes of the Chinese Communist Party. Word got back to the NBA that dissent from the party line was unacceptable for any corporation that wants to do business with them. Morey’s tweet disappeared, and the league issued a groveling apology.

It wasn’t quick enough, though. ... Some sources reported that the Rockets even considered firing Morey for his thoughtcrime. In China, the Rockets are already being cast down the memory hole.

The NBA scandal has brought it to people’s attention, but it has been the lie behind trade with China since that nation was admitted to the World Trade Organization in 2001. We trusted China to play by the rules, and our mistake was apparent very quickly. Those who would adhere to it in the face of that evidence are willfully blind.

But is it enough to call the rich liberals in Silicon Valley and on Wall Street hypocrites? Clearly, the case has been proven again and again, but what good is it if conservatives and liberals just point fingers at each other?
...
Republicans can help individual workers, increase American civil liberties, and preserve nature merely by standing up to China — something they and Democrats have spectacularly failed to do for decades now.

A Republican Party that stands up to China can actually stand up for human rights. That’s a favorable contrast to a party that says the right things then sells out to the highest bidder. Standing up to China and taking control of our own economy, society, and inalienable rights is the right thing to do. It’s also the way to win with the voters. President Trump and congressional Republicans should seize this opportunity for the country’s sake and for their own
.​

FOREIGN POLICY: China’s Ultimate Goal Is To Control American Culture, And Companies Should Resist It: If we let the Chinese government set limits on what we can say or do, if we give up our freedom for short-term financial gain, we will lose our ability to create the best products.

If ESPN thought shutting down on-air discussion about China and Hong Kong would please its Chinese master and protect the commercial interests of itself and its corporate parent Disney, it’s dead wrong. What China wants is not simply to police a few words on social media or on air. It wants to control American culture, period.
...
We have seen Marriott fire an hourly employee in Omaha, Nebraska, for liking a tweet a Tibetan group posted. The three biggest U.S. airlines — American Airlines, United, and Delta — bowed to China’s demand and changed their websites to list Taiwan as part of China despite the fact that Taiwan has been self-ruling since 1940 and is under a completely different political and economic system than mainland China.

Most recently, Apple pulled a popular app, HKmap.live, from the App Store because Hong Kong protesters have been relying on it to track police activity on the streets and to avoid trouble spots. Apple deemed such usage of the app “illegal.” The company revised its decision and brought the app back a day later after widespread outcry.
...
Many of the “backlashes” Western companies receive come from an online Chinese group referred to as “Wumao,” Chinese users who are on the government’s payroll to support the government’s policies and messaging.
...
Whenever the Chinese government wants to police a foreigner’s or a foreign company’s speech and behavior, “Wumao” is deployed to flood the person or company’s site and social media with condemning posts. These paid trolls do not represent thoughts and preferences of the majority of ordinary Chinese citizens.
...
The reason America has the best products and sport teams is not because we are a rich and powerful nation (keep in mind, China is rich and powerful too), but because Americans live in a free country and enjoy freedom of expression. We are free to be as creative and as productive as we see fit. It’s this freedom that enables talented Americans to create music, characters, products, and sports teams with universal appeal that transcends cultures
.​
 

miamited

Ted
Supporter
Oct 4, 2010
13,243
6,313
Seneca SC
✟705,807.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Hi NH,

Woah! Have I had it all wrong for so many years. I thought the whole problem with China was that we had a yuge deficit account going back some 30 years. That China was taking our money. Now the Federalist wants us to refigure all this issue and see it as us taking China's money? I'm confused.

Wasn't the issue, for those complaining about China trade, that China was selling us more stuff than they were buying from us? Hence, a fairly large deficit balance going back for many, many years on trade. Trump was all up in arms that they were taking our money and our jobs. Now that's all reversed? Who reversed it? Now it seems the problem is that we are taking China's money for our values. Personally , I doubt that China really wants our values and as far as our values somehow changing to gain China's money, it's going to take a few more than 1 or 2 examples to prove to me that China, even if it is a communist government, is some terrible trade partner just because of their form of government. In fact, while China says of itself that it is a communist government, the operation of the Chinese government is not particularly communist.

Is China a Capitalist or Communist Country?
Is China socialist? A long (and better) answer
Would Karl Marx recognise China’s new communism?

I believe that this bugaboo about we should not trade with China because they are a communist country and don't observe the same human rights as we do, reeks of McCarthyism. A lot of nations don't observe the same human rights as we do. Nearly all of the middle east and Asian nations don't afford their citizens the same human rights as the U.S. does. I don't find that to be a valid reason, in and of itself, not to have amicable trade relations with such nations.

Taiwan is likely the most free nation in the Asian area, but their rights aren't yet up to ours, although they are doing progressively better. Vietnam is a 'communist' nation as far as how it labels its government. We get tons of stuff from Vietnam and no one is complaining...much. They have a terrible human rights record in comparison to ours.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
  • Winner
Reactions: whatbogsends
Upvote 0

NightHawkeye

Work-in-progress
Supporter
Jul 5, 2010
45,814
10,318
✟781,037.00
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Married
Hi NH,

Woah! Have I had it all wrong for so many years. I thought the whole problem with China was that we had a yuge deficit account going back some 30 years. That China was taking our money. Now the Federalist wants us to refigure all this issue and see it as us taking China's money? I'm confused.
No need to be confused, Ted. Political figures are not the country.

Corrupt politicians are always on the take, willing to sell not just their own souls but their country as well.
 
Upvote 0

miamited

Ted
Supporter
Oct 4, 2010
13,243
6,313
Seneca SC
✟705,807.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
No need to be confused, Ted. Political figures are not the country.

Corrupt politicians are always on the take, willing to sell not just their own souls but their country as well.

Hi NH,

I'm not sure that's a true evaluation of the Chinese government. I think the leaders of the Chinese are very patriotic to their nation and their beliefs. They just don't happen to be yours and that's ok. They certainly, in the current circumstance, seem to be much more mature in what they're doing than our leadership. I'm not sure that most people that are really familiar with the Chinese government would qualify them as corrupt and willing to sell their souls or their country. They are looking out for what is best for their people just as our leadership should be looking out for what is best for ours. Presently, theirs seems to be doing a somewhat better job than ours.

Generalized statements such as yours are what lead many people of the world to think of boastful and arrogant Americans to be fairly ugly in their understanding of others.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
Upvote 0

NightHawkeye

Work-in-progress
Supporter
Jul 5, 2010
45,814
10,318
✟781,037.00
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Married
Hi NH,

I'm not sure that's a true evaluation of the Chinese government.
For the record, Ted, I wasn't referring, in that instance, to the Chinese government.

I know you often misinterpret my posts, but this is rather extreme, even for you.
 
Upvote 0

miamited

Ted
Supporter
Oct 4, 2010
13,243
6,313
Seneca SC
✟705,807.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
For the record, Ted, I wasn't referring, in that instance, to the Chinese government.

I know you often misinterpret my posts, but this is rather extreme, even for you.

HI NH,

Well, it's certainly possible that I misinterpreted your point. However, I don't think you were clear in making the point of which of the two countries you were talking about. Many do believe, primarily because it is communist, that the Chinese government is more corrupt than ours. I'm glad to see, however, that you believe the players in the United States government to be reasonably corrupt.

What we have today is the fox in charge of the chicken coup.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
Upvote 0

miamited

Ted
Supporter
Oct 4, 2010
13,243
6,313
Seneca SC
✟705,807.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Hi NH,

The point of the article sounds much like what we are seeing in our own government today. It makes the point that the Chinese government doesn't like news or attitudes that show any dissension to the party line. That's almost to a T what we're seeing today in the present administration. While our government doesn't allow the punishment that the Chinese government does, the attitude is the same. If Donald Trump had his authoritarian way, he would cut off every news source that didn't align with his agenda or understanding of things. I think we should all be glad that we do have the safeguards against such tyranny built into our system, but they are certainly taking a lashing under this administration.

He's actually calling for prison and impeachment against politicians who don't kowtow to his line. Sounds a lot like Chinese rule to me. He wants to sue and/or shutdown any news source that doesn't report on him as the glorious and grand most bestest ever leader. Sounds a lot like Chinese rule to me. He has already pretty much completely shut down the WH news bureau as there just aren't any longer any press briefings. Sounds a lot like Chinese rule to me. Apparently there aren't any other kinds of briefings between him and his staff much either.

Donald Trump is effectively trying to turn the government of the U.S. into a government system similar to what is now in China. A government where what he says goes, period! There is no back and forth debate or discussion of important issues. He just wakes up one morning and decides to make some world shaking decision without, apparently, any internal discussion with his cabinet staff. He seems to hold quite a bit of respect and admiration for governments that do have such despotic control.

If he can't get the lawmakers of the nation to go along, then he just does it by executive order declaring that we are in some sort of national emergency. Acts a lot like how a Chinese ruler would do things, to me.

I read that Marriot has some 300 locations in China. Maybe Trump is looking to expand his hotel chain and wants the Chinese to see us as much like them.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

NightHawkeye

Work-in-progress
Supporter
Jul 5, 2010
45,814
10,318
✟781,037.00
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Married
Hi NH,

The point of the article sounds much like what we are seeing in our own government today. It makes the point that the Chinese government doesn't like news or attitudes that show any dissension to the party line. That's almost to a T what we're seeing today in the present administration. While our government doesn't allow the punishment that the Chinese government does, the attitude is the same. If Donald Trump had his authoritarian way, he would cut off every news source that didn't align with his agenda or understanding of things. I think we should all be glad that we do have the safeguards against such tyranny built into our system, but they are certainly taking a lashing under this administration.

He's actually calling for prison and impeachment against politicians who don't kowtow to his line. Sounds a lot like Chinese rule to me. He wants to sue and/or shutdown any news source that doesn't report on him as the glorious and grand most bestest ever leader. Sounds a lot like Chinese rule to me. He has already pretty much completely shut down the WH news bureau as there just aren't any longer any press briefings. Sounds a lot like Chinese rule to me. Apparently there aren't any other kinds of briefings between him and his staff much either.

Donald Trump is effectively trying to turn the government of the U.S. into a government system similar to what is now in China. A government where what he says goes, period! There is no back and forth debate or discussion of important issues. He just wakes up one morning and decides to make some world shaking decision without, apparently, any internal discussion with his cabinet staff. He seems to hold quite a bit of respect and admiration for governments that do have such despotic control.

If he can't get the lawmakers of the nation to go along, then he just does it by executive order declaring that we are in some sort of national emergency. Acts a lot like how a Chinese ruler would do things, to me.

I read that Marriot has some 300 locations in China. Maybe Trump is looking to expand his hotel chain and wants the Chinese to see us as much like them.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
Hi Ted,

I always find it more than a little ironic when people accuse Trump of being authoritarian. He's been nothing of the sort. The entire mainstream media has been bashing Trump since before he took the oath of office. This is the same media which did not tolerate criticism of Barack Obama ... at all. This is the same media which refused to discuss the corruption of Joe Biden until Trump forced the issue. This is the same media which has been all about impeaching Trump for nearly three years now. Yet there are some, like yourself, who somehow turn the matter upside down and accuse Trump of being the totalitarian.

In truth, Trump's never had the chance to be authoritarian. Trump's been under attack 24/7 since before he took office. Accusations of him stifling the press are woefully misplaced. I shudder though at the prospect of those behind the current witch-hunt gaining power with the full force of the mainstream media backing them.
 
Upvote 0

cow451

Standing with Ukraine.
Supporter
May 29, 2012
41,108
24,128
Hot and Humid
✟1,120,276.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
No need to be confused, Ted. Political figures are not the country.

Corrupt politicians are always on the take, willing to sell not just their own souls but their country as well.
But it is a bit troubling when the corrupt politician is the current President.
 
Upvote 0

cow451

Standing with Ukraine.
Supporter
May 29, 2012
41,108
24,128
Hot and Humid
✟1,120,276.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Hi Ted,

I always find it more than a little ironic when people accuse Trump of being authoritarian. He's been nothing of the sort. The entire mainstream media has been bashing Trump since before he took the oath of office. This is the same media which did not tolerate criticism of Barack Obama ... at all. This is the same media which refused to discuss the corruption of Joe Biden until Trump forced the issue. This is the same media which has been all about impeaching Trump for nearly three years now. Yet there are some, like yourself, who somehow turn the matter upside down and accuse Trump of being the totalitarian.

In truth, Trump's never had the chance to be authoritarian. Trump's been under attack 24/7 since before he took office. Accusations of him stifling the press are woefully misplaced. I shudder though at the prospect of those behind the current witch-hunt gaining power with the full force of the mainstream media backing them.
ROFLOL. Priceless. Trump operates the Executive Branch like a New Jersey crime syndicate. ^_^^_^^_^^_^
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

grasping the after wind

That's grasping after the wind
Jan 18, 2010
19,458
6,354
Clarence Center NY USA
✟237,637.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I don't like him = authoritarian. Whether he has acted in an authoritarian manner or not.

What Has Trump done that no other President did and that was outside the powers assigned to the President by the Constitution? I cannot think of anything yet I can think of things Trump has not done that other Presidents did which were outside of the assigned powers of the President.
 
Upvote 0

grasping the after wind

That's grasping after the wind
Jan 18, 2010
19,458
6,354
Clarence Center NY USA
✟237,637.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Remind me again what "our values" are?

There seems to be quite an amount of disagreement on that subject. To the point that "our" can no longer be applied when speaking of a consensus of the citizens of the US.
 
Upvote 0

cow451

Standing with Ukraine.
Supporter
May 29, 2012
41,108
24,128
Hot and Humid
✟1,120,276.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Upvote 0

cow451

Standing with Ukraine.
Supporter
May 29, 2012
41,108
24,128
Hot and Humid
✟1,120,276.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I don't like him = authoritarian. Whether he has acted in an authoritarian manner or not.

What Has Trump done that no other President did and that was outside the powers assigned to the President by the Constitution? I cannot think of anything yet I can think of things Trump has not done that other Presidents did which were outside of the assigned powers of the President.
What part of New Jersey crime syndicate is hard to understand?
 
  • Agree
Reactions: miamited
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

TLK Valentine

I've already read the books you want burned.
Apr 15, 2012
64,493
30,319
Behind the 8-ball, but ahead of the curve.
✟541,512.00
Country
United States
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
ROFLOL. Priceless. Trump operates the Executive Branch like a New Jersey crime syndicate. ^_^^_^^_^^_^

You owe the New Jersey bosses a sincere and respectful apology.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: miamited
Upvote 0