THE TRUE "REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY/SUPERSESSIONISM" OF THE BIBLE

DO YOU AGREE WITH THE OP POST?


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nolidad

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Your assertion that a 3rd temple would disprove partial-preterism and prove dispensationalism is an interesting one, considering Julian the apostate and the surrounding pagans wanted to build a 3rd temple to disprove Christianity, and make Christ out to be a false prophet. I also find it interesting that despite history showing multiple failed attempts to build a 3rd temple, in addition to Jesus stating that Jerusalem would no longer be the center of worship, the dispensationalists are still pushing for a physical temple.

Actually it is biblicists who believe in the 3rd Temple based on the clear unambiguous teachings of Gods Word. It doesn't mean god approves of animal sacrifices again, nor that the Mosaic System is back inforce- it is simply a report on a future event without God saying He approves!

It doesn't matter if 1000 attempts have been made to rebuild the temple. It will happen in Gods timetable.

Preterists and covenant theology believers all mocked when it was said Israel would be restored to her land just as prophesied in many places in the OT. Then in 1948 after it happened- they had to come up with all sorts of excuses why 1948 was irrelevant to the bible.

They also said Israel would never get back Jerusalem. Then in 1967 they had to make all sorts of excuses when Israel recaptured her capital (and Gods footstool forever according to Scripture).

They now say Israel will never rebuild the temple. Well they have the cohens and Levites in place.
they have the epphods. The temple toos. They have taught animal sacrifice in Hebrew University. They have the models and blueprints. All they wait (though they do not know fI think) is for god to pave the way for teh temple to be rebuilt.

But preterists and covenantalists say- Islam will never let go of Temple Mount and the Dome of the rock!
Interesting enough is that the Dome of the rock is located in the court of the gentiles- so the entire temple proper can be rebuilt without evicting the Muslims! And when it is rebuilt, I expect a huge amount of excuses as to why that is also irrelevant!

The only good thing for my covenantal brethren is- when the pre trib rapture happens- they won't h ave to make excuses for that as well, for you will be caught up with us who know!
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Ok so you believe jerusalem of AD 30-70 is not only that great city, but also the great harlot and mother of all harlots!
A woman when used symbolically in Scripture is always a symbol of religion. A harlot is a false religion. so how can Judaism be the mother of all harlots (false religions) when many false religions existed long before The Mosaic Law came to be and Judaism was born!
Because Jesus says so..Did not these practice OC Judaism?.......[Revelation 2:9 Revelation 3:9]

John 8:44 `Ye out of a father the Devil are, and the desires/epiqumiaV <1939> of the father of ye, ye are willing to be doing.
That one a man-killer was from beginning and in the truth not has stood, that not is truth in him.
Whenever he may be talking, the falsehood out of the own/P he is talking, that a falsifier he is and the father of it. [Reve 18:14]

Matthew 23:33 "Serpents! offspring<1081> of vipers!
how? ye may be fleeing from the judging<2920> of the Gehenna<1067>

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of the tormenting of them is ascending into Ages to-Ages. And not they are having Rest/anapausin <372> day and night [Matthew 11:29/Hebrew 4:3]

Gehenna Fire
===========================
These are Judeans who practiced Judaism...........

Romans 11:28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.

Phl 3:18 For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:

Philippians 3:2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the circumcision!

2 Corin 6:17 wherefore come-forth of midst of them! and be being separated! is saying Lord
==================================
A woman when used symbolically in Scripture is always a symbol of religion. A harlot is a false religion. so how can Judaism be the mother of all harlots (false religions) when many false religions existed long before The Mosaic Law came to be and Judaism was born!
Were other religions mentioned in these verses of Revelation?

Revelation 2:
9 “I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich);
and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
13 “I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan's throne is. And you hold fast to My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells.

Revelation 3:9
“Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie
indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.
============================
 
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nolidad

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No. I have the verse below which proves Josephus was correct on this point of Jewish history.

Also, Bible scholars all over the world are in agreement that Josephus was an excellent source on the topic of Jewish history, and the events of 70 AD.


Joh 10:22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.

.

Yes I also accept Josephus as an excellent historian! I studied his works in bible College! But he was in error when he said that Antiochus Epiphenes was the abomination of desolation! Especially when Jesus warned it was yet to come!

And it could not be Titus or his legions- for none of them stood in the holy place. Try again!

Still waiting for you to show fulfillment of the seals, bowls, trumpets, beast and his mark and the flying angel all before 70 AD. also can you supply some history showing gentile nations mourning the destruction of Jerusalem ala the lament about Babylon in revelation?
 
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nolidad

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I have 2 threads on the beasts.....I made a separate one on the beast of the Land/Apostate 1st century Jewish Beast.......:idea:

[they haven't garnered much interest for some reason :scratch:.......]

Reve 13:11-18 "WILD BEAST OUT OF THE LAND/EARTH"

The wild Beasts from the Sea and from the Land


Revelation 13:

The wild Beast Out of the Sea

1 And I was standing on the sand of the sea and I saw out of the sea a wild Beast ascending, having seven heads and ten horns.
And upon its horns ten diadems, and upon its heads names of blasphemy.
2 And the wild Beast that I saw was like as a leopard,and its feet as of a bear and its mouth as the mouth of a lion.
And the Dragon gives to it his power and throne and great authority.
3 And one out of its heads as having been slain/slaughtered into death, and the blow of the death of it was healed.
And the whole land marvels after the Beast.
4 And they worship to the Dragon that it gives authority to the wild Beast,
and they worship to the wild Beast, saying, ‘Who like to the Beast? who is able to war with it?
5 And was given to it a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies.
And was given to it authority to do which it is willing forth two months.
6 And it open it's mouth into blasphemies toward the God, to blaspheme His name and His Tabernacle and those who in the heaven tabernacling.
7 And was given to it to do war with the Saints and to overcome/conquer them.
And was given it authority over every Tribe and Tongue and Nation.
8 And shall be worshiping it all those dwelling upon the land,
of whom not has been written his name in the Scroll of the Life of the Lambkin, of the One slain/slaughtered from the foundation of the world.
9 If any is having ear — let him hear!
10 If any to captivity, into captivity he is going away.
If any in sword shall be killing, it is binding him in sword to be killed.
Here is the endurance and the faith of the Saints. [Luke 21:24\
=========================:
Captivity and sword Luke 21:24 Revelation 13:10
Luke 21:24
And they shall be falling to mouth of sword and they shall be being led captive into all the nations. [Revelation 13:10]
And Jerusalem shall be being trodden by nations until which may be being filled times of nations.
===============================

The wild Beast Out of the Land


11 And I saw another wild Beast ascending out of the land,
and it had two horns like a lambkin and it spoke as a Dragon.
12 And the authority of the first wild Beast all it is doing in view of it.
And is making the land and those dwelling in it that to be worshiping the first wild Beast, of which was cured the blow of the death of it.
13 And it is doing great signs that even fire it may be making out of the heaven descending into the land in view of the men.
14 And it is deceiving those dwelling on the land thru the signs which was given to it to do in view of the wild Beast,
saying to those dwelling upon the land to make an image to the wild Beast which hath the blow of the sword and lives.
15 And was given to it to give spirit/breath to the image of the wild Beast, that also the image of the wild Beast should be speaking.
And should be causing as many as shall no should be worshiping to the image of the wild Beast, that they may be being killed.

16 And it is causing all the small and the great and the rich and the poor, and the freemen and the servants that may be giving to them a mark upon their right hand or upon their foreheads.
17 And that no one may be able to buy, or to sell, except he who is having the mark of the wild Beast or the name of the wild Beast, or the number of it's name.
18 Here the wisdom is being!
The one having mind, let him calculate the number of the wild Beast, for number of man it is, and its number six hundred sixty six.
==========================================
The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 17:
16 And the ten Horns which thou saw and the Beast[from Sea/Israel/Gentiles/Titus?], these shall be hating the harlot,

and They shall be making Her desolate and naked,
and the fleshes of Her they shall be eating
and shall be burning Her in fire.

17 For the GOD gives into Their hearts to do the mind of Him, and to do One mind and to give Their kingdom to the Beast
until shall be being finished the words of the GOD.

Revelation 18:
18 And they cried, observing the smoke of Her burning, saying, "What is like to the great City?"
19 and they cast dust upon their heads, and cried, lamenting, weeping and mourning, saying,
"Woe! woe! the great City! in which are rich all those having ships in the sea, out of Her preciousness,
for to one hour was She was desolated.
========================
I am putting this up for a study, and this is my translation of these 3 chapters in Revelation concerning the great City/harlot/Babylon/Queen.
 
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nolidad

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You are changing the definition of the word "remnant" in the verses below.


Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:


Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.


Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

.

Is lying about what people write something taught in covenant bible schools?

I never changed the word remnant.

I simply posted the promise in Jeremiah and the fact that Paul said ini the future all Israel (after the pleroma of the gentiles is brought in) will be saved. You are trying to make that say something about the remnant I never said!

Jeremiah 31:31-37 King James Version (KJV)
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:

36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

Yes for now a remnant is being saved- but there is coming a day when all Israel will receive Jesus as Messiah! 3days before Jesus returns according to the Word of God!

Romans 11:25-29 King James Version (KJV)
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.


MAYBE YOU SHOULD FOLLOW PAULS ADVICE AND NOT BE WISE ON YOUR OWN CONCEITS?

BTW, Still waiting for you to demonstrate how Petrer spoke to every man of Israel, including all those in teh scattered areas where they were living from the Babylonian Captivity, as you said is true based on Acts 2.



!
 
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BABerean2

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Still waiting for you to show fulfillment of the seals, bowls, trumpets, beast and his mark and the flying angel all before 70 AD.

It will be a long wait, since I believe all of those things above lie in the future.

Can you explain why we have the exact same warning to flee from Judea to the mountains in the two passages below?


Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:


Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

.
 
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nolidad

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Matthew 26 YLT
26 And while they were eating, Jesus having taken the bread, and having blessed, did brake, and was giving to the disciples, and said, `Take, eat, this is my body;'
27 and having taken the cup, and having given thanks, he gave to them, saying, `Drink ye of it -- all;
28 for this is my blood of the new covenant, that for many is being poured out -- to remission of sins;

What theology is that?

Who mandated it?

Where does it appear?


Where does Jesus teach only 2 covenants?

What about the Noahic covenant is that gone?

How about the Abraham, Davidic and Palestinian covenants? Paul said the Old Covenant did not disannul them!

Bot the old and the new covenants belong to Israel! We gentile are the wild olive branches grafted on! The mystery of the Old, revealed in the new! We are partakers- not taker-overs!
 
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Contenders Edge

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The word "reign" is not found in 2 Peter chapter 3.


.


That does not resolve the problem and it is this:

1. Either Peter and John are contradicting one another.

2. Or more was revealed to John than what was revealed to Peter. And since I do not believe that Peter and John were contradicting one another, I choose the latter solution and not the former.
 
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Contenders Edge

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Where does Jesus teach only 2 covenants?

What about the Noahic covenant is that gone?

How about the Abraham, Davidic and Palestinian covenants? Paul said the Old Covenant did not disannul them!

Bot the old and the new covenants belong to Israel! We gentile are the wild olive branches grafted on! The mystery of the Old, revealed in the new! We are partakers- not taker-overs!


The Noahic covenant under which God declared that He would never again destroy the world by a flood is not gone. The last time I looked, rainbows are still frequently cited during or after a rainstorm.
 
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nolidad

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I have 2 threads on the beasts.....I made a separate one on the beast of the Land/Apostate 1st century Jewish Beast.......:idea:

[they haven't garnered much interest for some reason :scratch:.......]

Reve 13:11-18 "WILD BEAST OUT OF THE LAND/EARTH"

The wild Beasts from the Sea and from the Land


Revelation 13:

The wild Beast Out of the Sea

1 And I was standing on the sand of the sea and I saw out of the sea a wild Beast ascending, having seven heads and ten horns.
And upon its horns ten diadems, and upon its heads names of blasphemy.
2 And the wild Beast that I saw was like as a leopard,and its feet as of a bear and its mouth as the mouth of a lion.
And the Dragon gives to it his power and throne and great authority.
3 And one out of its heads as having been slain/slaughtered into death, and the blow of the death of it was healed.
And the whole land marvels after the Beast.
4 And they worship to the Dragon that it gives authority to the wild Beast,
and they worship to the wild Beast, saying, ‘Who like to the Beast? who is able to war with it?
5 And was given to it a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies.
And was given to it authority to do which it is willing forth two months.
6 And it open it's mouth into blasphemies toward the God, to blaspheme His name and His Tabernacle and those who in the heaven tabernacling.
7 And was given to it to do war with the Saints and to overcome/conquer them.
And was given it authority over every Tribe and Tongue and Nation.
8 And shall be worshiping it all those dwelling upon the land,
of whom not has been written his name in the Scroll of the Life of the Lambkin, of the One slain/slaughtered from the foundation of the world.
9 If any is having ear — let him hear!
10 If any to captivity, into captivity he is going away.
If any in sword shall be killing, it is binding him in sword to be killed.
Here is the endurance and the faith of the Saints. [Luke 21:24\
=========================:
Captivity and sword Luke 21:24 Revelation 13:10
Luke 21:24
And they shall be falling to mouth of sword and they shall be being led captive into all the nations. [Revelation 13:10]
And Jerusalem shall be being trodden by nations until which may be being filled times of nations.
===============================

The wild Beast Out of the Land


11 And I saw another wild Beast ascending out of the land,
and it had two horns like a lambkin and it spoke as a Dragon.
12 And the authority of the first wild Beast all it is doing in view of it.
And is making the land and those dwelling in it that to be worshiping the first wild Beast, of which was cured the blow of the death of it.
13 And it is doing great signs that even fire it may be making out of the heaven descending into the land in view of the men.
14 And it is deceiving those dwelling on the land thru the signs which was given to it to do in view of the wild Beast,
saying to those dwelling upon the land to make an image to the wild Beast which hath the blow of the sword and lives.
15 And was given to it to give spirit/breath to the image of the wild Beast, that also the image of the wild Beast should be speaking.
And should be causing as many as shall no should be worshiping to the image of the wild Beast, that they may be being killed.

16 And it is causing all the small and the great and the rich and the poor, and the freemen and the servants that may be giving to them a mark upon their right hand or upon their foreheads.
17 And that no one may be able to buy, or to sell, except he who is having the mark of the wild Beast or the name of the wild Beast, or the number of it's name.
18 Here the wisdom is being!
The one having mind, let him calculate the number of the wild Beast, for number of man it is, and its number six hundred sixty six.
==========================================
The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 17:
16 And the ten Horns which thou saw and the Beast[from Sea/Israel/Gentiles/Titus?], these shall be hating the harlot,

and They shall be making Her desolate and naked,
and the fleshes of Her they shall be eating
and shall be burning Her in fire.

17 For the GOD gives into Their hearts to do the mind of Him, and to do One mind and to give Their kingdom to the Beast
until shall be being finished the words of the GOD.

Revelation 18:
18 And they cried, observing the smoke of Her burning, saying, "What is like to the great City?"
19 and they cast dust upon their heads, and cried, lamenting, weeping and mourning, saying,
"Woe! woe! the great City! in which are rich all those having ships in the sea, out of Her preciousness,
for to one hour was She was desolated.
========================
I am putting this up for a study, and this is my translation of these 3 chapters in Revelation concerning the great City/harlot/Babylon/Queen.

As you believe all this happened in history prior to 70 AD your task is simple.

1.Identify the beast out of the sea!

2. When did he make war with the saints?

3. When did this sea beast gain control over EVERY tribe, nation and tongue? and can you give any historical record?

As for the beast from the land.

1.This high priest who is he?
2. When was the decree made for all to worship the sea beast?
3. why does the church have no record of the pseudo miracles he did?
4. When did he make the image of the sea beast come alive and why is there no record of this?
5. When was the proclamation made for everyone to wear the mark of the beast?
6. what was this mark? Why is there no record of it?

According to you , this is all accomplished history so you should be able to lead me to records verifying these historical factual events.
 
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BABerean2

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How about the Abraham, Davidic and Palestinian covenants?

Mat 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.


Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.


Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Luk 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.


How much of the Bible is "Moses and all the prophets"?

.
 
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nolidad

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Because Jesus says so..Did not these practice OC Judaism?.......[Revelation 2:9 Revelation 3:9]

John 8:44 `Ye out of a father the Devil are, and the desires/epiqumiaV <1939> of the father of ye, ye are willing to be doing.
That one a man-killer was from beginning and in the truth not has stood, that not is truth in him.
Whenever he may be talking, the falsehood out of the own/P he is talking, that a falsifier he is and the father of it. [Reve 18:14]

Matthew 23:33 "Serpents! offspring<1081> of vipers!
how? ye may be fleeing from the judging<2920> of the Gehenna<1067>

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of the tormenting of them is ascending into Ages to-Ages. And not they are having Rest/anapausin <372> day and night [Matthew 11:29/Hebrew 4:3]

Gehenna Fire
===========================
These are Judeans who practiced Judaism...........

Romans 11:28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.

Phl 3:18 For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:

Philippians 3:2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the circumcision!

2 Corin 6:17 wherefore come-forth of midst of them! and be being separated! is saying Lord
==================================

Were other religions mentioned in these verses of Revelation?

Revelation 2:
9 “I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich);
and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
13 “I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan's throne is. And you hold fast to My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells.

Revelation 3:9
“Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie
indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.
============================

Jesus never called Judaism, Mystery babylon teh great, the mother of all harlots and abominations on teh earth! If Judaism was (and that includes the new and Mosaic Covenants) then why did Jesus practice it faithfully and fulfilled all its requirements!
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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It will be a long wait, since I believe all of those things above lie in the future.
Can you explain why we have the exact same warning to flee from Judea to the mountains in the two passages below?

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.


.
Good verses.........70AD Jerusalem is in Revelation 18.......

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:15 Abomination desolation....desolating of Jerusalem.

#2050 used only in these 3 verses

2050. eremosis from 2049; despoliation:--desolation.

Matthew 24:15
Whenever then ye may be seeing the abomination<946> of the desolation/ἐρημώσεως<2050>.......

Mark 13:14
Whenever yet ye may be seeing see the abomination<946> of the desolation/ἐρημώσεως<2050>

Luke 21:20
Whenever yet may be seeing Jerusalem surrounded by war-troops,
then be knowing that come nigh desolating/ἐρήμωσις<2050> of Her [Revelation 18:19]


Luke 19:43 That shall be arriving days upon Thee,
and Thy enemies shall be casting up a rampart/siege-work to Thee
and shall be encompassing Thee,
and pressing Thee from-every-side.
44 And shall be leveling Thee and Thy offspring in Thee,
and not shall be leaving stone upon stone in Thee,
stead which not Thou knew the season of the visitation<1984> of Thee".

Revelation 18:19
and they cast dust upon their heads, and cried<2896>, lamenting<2799>, weeping and mourning<3996>, saying,
"Woe! woe! the great City! in which are rich all those having ships<4143> in the sea, out of Her preciousness<5094>,
for to one hour was She was desolated<2049>. [Luke 21:20 Luke 19:44]
==========================
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see: Rapture refuted


In executing the command of Titus, relative to the demolition of Jerusalem, the Roman soldiers not only threw down the buildings, but even dug up their foundations, and so completely levelled the whole circuit of the city, that a stranger would scarcely have known that it had ever been inhabited by human beings. Thus was this great City, which only five months before, had been crowded with nearly two millions of people, who gloried in its impregnable strength, entirely depopulated, and levelled with the ground. And thus, also was our LORD'S prediction, that her enemies should "lay her even with the ground," and "should not leave in her one stone upon another, " (Luke xix. 44.) most strikingly and fully accomplished ! -- This fact is confirmed by Eusebius, who asserts that he himself saw the city lying in ruins ; and Josephus introduces Eleazer as exclaiming "Where is our great city, which, it was believed, GOD inhabited ? It is altogether rooted and torn up from its foundations ; and the only monument of it that remains, is the camp of its destroyers pitched amidst its reliques !"
=============
Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @ PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterist Eschatology and Preterism
"..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."
ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM


CAST OF CHARACTERS: Roman: Emperor Nero | General Vespasian | General Titus | The Roman Army || Jewish: General / Historian Josephus | Factional Leaders in Jerusalem || Administrators of Roman Judea Targets: Jerusalem | Herod's Temple // Maps of the Roman Invasion // Theological Timeline

CHRONOLOGY IMMEDIATELY SURROUNDING THE WAR


 
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nolidad

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It will be a long wait, since I believe all of those things above lie in the future.

Can you explain why we have the exact same warning to flee from Judea to the mountains in the two passages below?


Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:


Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

.

Well as that was addressed to little lamb- I do not know why you are responding!

Why do we have two identical warnings? Simple! Two events that are gong to bring devastation and mayhem to Jerusalem

1. Luke! When an army surrounds Jerusalem, it is a sign that her destruction has come and God will have His vengeance! So people need to flee! Believing Jews did- and fled to Pella in Jordan and were saved!

2. Matthew. When a man stands in the Holy of Holies they are to flee, for tribulation will occur that has never been seen before or will be seen after is now set to happen. Jews flee to the fortress city of Petra, where they are protected by god till they turn to Jesus and receive Him as Messiah!

Two identical warnings separated by about 2 millenia with 2 different warning signs and two different outcomes!
 
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BABerean2

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That does not resolve the problem and it is this:

1. Either Peter and John are contradicting one another.

2. Or more was revealed to John than what was revealed to Peter. And since I do not believe that Peter and John were contradicting one another, I choose the latter solution and not the former.

Do you believe John was recording the symbolic vision he was given in the Book of Revelation, vs. what Peter was given?

Is Satan a giant flying lizard?

Can Satan be bound with a real chain, unlike the man possessed with a spirit in Mark chapter 5?

Does the fire come at the return of Christ as described in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10?
When does the fire come in Revelation 20?

Does Christ judge both the living and the dead at His appearing as found in 2 Timothy 4:1?
When does the judgment come in Revelation 20?

Is the "time of the judgment of the dead" in Revelation 11:18?


Is the Book of Revelation in chronological order, or is it a series of overlapping visions?


.
 
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BABerean2

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Good verses.........70AD Jerusalem is in Revelation 18.......

Nope...

Rev 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
Rev 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
Rev 18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
Rev 18:7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
Rev 18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
Rev 18:9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
Rev 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
Rev 18:11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
Rev 18:12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
Rev 18:13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
Rev 18:14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
Rev 18:15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
Rev 18:16 And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
Rev 18:17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
Rev 18:18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
Rev 18:19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
Rev 18:20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
Rev 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
Rev 18:22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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Jesus never called Judaism, Mystery babylon teh great, the mother of all harlots and abominations on teh earth! If Judaism was (and that includes the new and Mosaic Covenants) then why did Jesus practice it faithfully and fulfilled all its requirements!
Paul also practiced it.

Rom 9:3
For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh,
Gal 1:13
For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it.
Gal 1:14
And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers.

Judaism of the Law/Flesh/Moses became the different Gospel from the Gospel based on Faith/Grace/Jesus

Gal 1:9
As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
==============================
Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

LUKE 16:26 " 'And besides all this, between us and ye there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.' "

The "great gulf" mentioned by Abraham is nothing less than God's blinding in this age of the Jews as a whole to the truth about their Messiah! It's not that the Jewish nation won't acknowledge Yeshua as the prophesied Messiah; they cannot recognize his true identity because of God's actions!

While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Yeshua was speaking. They thoroughly knew their history and were extremely proud of their heritage. Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who he was referring to with this parable.
This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the House of Judah, the Jews!
==========================

Revelation 2:
9 “I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich);
and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
13 “I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan's throne is. And you hold fast to My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells.

Revelation 3:9
“Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie
indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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LittleLambofJesus said:
Good verses.........70AD Jerusalem is in Revelation 18.......
Nope...
.
Yep.......if you believe Josephus's writings..........

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!

Also see: Rapture refuted

JOSEPHUS, OLIVET DISCOURSE AND BOOK OF REVELATION

The Preterist Archive of Realized Eschatology

Was Flavius Josephus familiar with the Apocalypse of John?

John's Revelation - “And there were noises and thundering and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth.” (16:18)

Josephus - “for there broke out a prodigious storm in the night, with the utmost violence, and very strong winds, with the largest showers of rain, with continued lightnings, terrible thunderings, and amazing concussions and bellowings of the earth, that was in an earthquake. These things were a manifest indication that some destruction was coming upon men, when the system of the world was put into this disorder; and any one would guess that these wonders foreshowed some grand calamities that were coming” (“Wars of the Jews” 4:4:5)
==========================
Josephus Parallels? Revelation 16:19 and Wars of the Jews 5:1:1

John's Revelation - "Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.” (16:19)

Josephus - “it so happened that the sedition at Jerusalem was revived, and parted into three factions, and that one faction fought against the other; which partition in such evil cases may be said to be a good thing, and the effect of divine justice.” (5:1:1)
==============================
Josephus Parallels? Revelation 16:21 and Wars of the Jews 5:6:3

John's Revelation - “And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent.” (16:21)

Josephus - “Now the stones that were cast were of the weight of a talent, and were carried two furlongs and further. The blow they gave was no way to be sustained, not only by those that stood first in the way, but by those that were beyond them for a great space. As for the Jews, they at first watched the coming of the stone, for it was of a white color, and could therefore not only be perceived by the great noise it made, but could be seen also before it came by its brightness;” (5:6:3)....................

===============================
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:6 Wars rumors of Wars

Matthew 24:6
“Yet ye shall be being about to be hearing battles and tidings of battles, be seeing! be not be being troubled<2360>, for is binding to becoming,
but not as yet the End<5056>



Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive

CAST OF CHARACTERS: Roman: Emperor Nero | General Vespasian | General Titus | The Roman Army || Jewish: General / Historian Josephus | Factional Leaders in Jerusalem || Administrators of Roman Judea Targets: Jerusalem | Herod's Temple // Maps of the Roman Invasion // Theological Timeline

CHRONOLOGY IMMEDIATELY SURROUNDING THE WAR

Stage 1: Murder of James the Just, "Opposition High Priest" ; Irrevocable Split: 62
Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66
Stage 3: The Campaign of Cestius Gallus and the Defeat of the Twelfth Legion: October-November 66
Stage 4: End of Collaborative Government, Priesthood ; General Flight: November 66 - March 67
Part 6: Vespasian Subdues Northern and Western Palestine: December 66 - December 68
Part 7: Three-way Power Struggle within Jerusalem After Roman Retreat: January 68 - May 70
Part 8: Romans Breach City Walls and Leave Jerusalem Desolate: May 10 - September 10, 70
======================

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 18:19

and they cast dust upon their heads, and cried<2896>, lamenting<2799>, weeping and mourning<3996>, saying,
"Woe! woe! the great City! in which are rich all those having ships<4143> in the sea, out of Her preciousness<5094>,
for to one hour was She was desolated<2049>.
==================
This is perhaps the best video I have seen concerning Josephus' Jewish Wars coinciding with Matt 24 and Revelation.........

 
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Contenders Edge

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Do you believe John was recording the symbolic vision he was given in the Book of Revelation, vs. what Peter was given?Is Satan a giant flying lizard?


Where there is symbolism, there is an interpretation and explanation. But where there is no evidence of symbolism, a literal rendering is intended. And did Satan assume or not assume the form of a Serpent when he tempted Eve?


Can Satan be bound with a real chain, unlike the man possessed with a spirit in Mark chapter 5?


If Satan is to be bound by a chain for a thousand years, then it must be accepted as such and it will be a chain designed to bind spirits and fallen angels.


Does the fire come at the return of Christ as described in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10?
When does the fire come in Revelation 20?


The fire described at in the cited passage of 2 Thessalonians does not destroy the earth at that time, but rather the wicked out of it. Before the fire that destroys the earth comes the judgment of the dead.


Does Christ judge both the living and the dead at His appearing as found in 2 Timothy 4:1?
When does the judgment come in Revelation 20?


Does the judgment begin with a resurrection? How many resurrections are mentioned in the twentieth chapter? And what resurrections are they?


Is the "time of the judgment of the dead" in Revelation 11:18?


And every succeeding chapter between that passage and Revelation 20 explaining all that is to take place before.


Is the Book of Revelation in chronological order, or is it a series of overlapping visions?


An overall chronological order.
 
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