LoveOurNeighbor

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The vast majority of migrants have been coming from Guatemala. I found this curious. I have met some Guatemalans in the past and have found none that struck me as perverted criminals so I did a bit of looking into why they were coming. Turns out they have a 'dust bowl' of sorts and cannot grow any food. This is being blamed on climate change.

Hmmm. So we label desperate farmers as demented criminals and divert our military funds to pay for a wall that says we hate you and if this doesn't work we will have a moat of snakes and alligators to keep you away..

Seems the Christian thing to do would be to use those funds, instead of a horrendous symbol of hate, to build warehouses in Guatemala and teach them how to hydro farm.
 
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Hi LON,

It's been my experience, that as a group of people, neither Mexicans or any of the Central American neighbors who are immigrating here are violent people. Most of them are fleeing violence or poverty. Now, that is not to say that out of 1,000 people there are not any who would resort to violence if pushed, but none of them are coming here to be violent criminals. In fact, according to Statista.com, Hispanics are the least likely to own a firearm of any ethnicity in the country. They just are not, by nature, a violent people. 99% of them are coming here because they believe it is a place where they can get a job and work and raise their families in a better environment.

Hydrofarming is a good consideration, but it requires water and is not so easy on a small scale. I don't think those who are coming here because of climate issues are big scale farmers with access to deep well water. However, I too think that we could do better offering aid with money being used for a wall.

Americans are just scared people. They have lived a life of such great luxury, comparatively speaking, and it is just a yuge fear that others would come and take what we have.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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AllDayFaith

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If the American government would lead with love (instead of war) things would be so different. It says we are to treat strangers as neighbors, but I'm not saying we have to trust them. Sure, keep an eye on these people once they enter the country to make sure they don't hurt anyone.
 
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wing2000

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Americans are just scared people. They have lived a life of such great luxury, comparatively speaking, and it is just a yuge fear that others would come and take what we have.

...and sadly, the only time Americans pay any attention to Central America / Mexico is when our government drums up something to fear. During the Cold War it was fear of communism. And the current administration fear of crime and, as you note, "take what we have."
 
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Cimorene

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I think Trump is just obsessed w the wall itself bc he wants it and he thinks he's entitled to get whatever he wants, always. It's why it's referred to as his wall even though it's not being built on land he owns or with his own money. He's not interested in the facts involved or the ppl impacted.
 
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lasthero

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I think Trump is just obsessed w the wall itself bc he wants it and he thinks he's entitled to get whatever he wants, always. It's why it's referred to as his wall even though it's not being built on land he owns or with his own money. He's not interested in the facts involved or the ppl impacted.

It tics a lot of boxes for him. It's something he can rally his base around with a chant, it would be a tangible, real-world thing that he could mark as his accomplishment, and to many of his followers, it seems like a common sense idea. When you want to keep someone out of your yard, you build a fence. They want to keep people out of their country, so why not a wall?

Of course, it's not nearly that simple, and even if the wall were built tomorrow it wouldn't do nearly as much as he's saying, but that's not the point. The Wall isn't about solving a problem, it's about appeasing his followers. It's about his ego. It's an accomplishment that, potentially, will have his name on it for hundreds of years after he's dead and gone.
 
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Ana the Ist

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The vast majority of migrants have been coming from Guatemala. I found this curious. I have met some Guatemalans in the past and have found none that struck me as perverted criminals so I did a bit of looking into why they were coming. Turns out they have a 'dust bowl' of sorts and cannot grow any food. This is being blamed on climate change.

Hmmm. So we label desperate farmers as demented criminals and divert our military funds to pay for a wall that says we hate you and if this doesn't work we will have a moat of snakes and alligators to keep you away..

Seems the Christian thing to do would be to use those funds, instead of a horrendous symbol of hate, to build warehouses in Guatemala and teach them how to hydro farm.

It's less about food and more about cash crops like coffee.

Yes, climate change is making it harder for Guatemalan coffee to grow....putting much of the population out of work. Another problem is that it's increased coffee crops in other nations....dropping the relative value of Guatemalan coffee. This is the national equivalent of building your economy around the buggy whip...and the car gets invented.

Regardless of the underlying problem, the principle at question is the same. Are US interests better served by investing in the future of a nation? Or letting it fall apart because it's an unfixable mess?

When it comes to much of central America and South America....I'd have to argue the latter. There are exceptions like Mexico, Panama, Costa Rica, Brazil, etc....but the rest are on a fast track to their own doom.
 
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LoveOurNeighbor

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Since we have been 1 of the greatest polluters I would say we have huge responsibility to help rather than do hateful things like build walls..

If we spent wall money to help it is not only the right thing but the Christian 1.

to paraphrase 1 of the last great Republicans "Mr. Trump, tear down this wall"
 
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wing2000

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Regardless of the underlying problem, the principle at question is the same. Are US interests better served by investing in the future of a nation? Or letting it fall apart because it's an unfixable mess?

When it comes to much of central America and South America....I'd have to argue the latter. There are exceptions like Mexico, Panama, Costa Rica, Brazil, etc....but the rest are on a fast track to their own doom.

What does "letting it fall apart" mean in practice and how is that any different than what the Trump Administration is already doing?
 
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Ana the Ist

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What does "letting it fall apart" mean in practice and how is that any different than what the Trump Administration is already doing?

I don't know that it's any different....

In practice, it would mean not letting them shed 4-5 million people as a solution to their problems and taking those people in and taking care of them.
 
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TLK Valentine

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Regardless of the underlying problem, the principle at question is the same. Are US interests better served by investing in the future of a nation? Or letting it fall apart because it's an unfixable mess?

When it comes to much of central America and South America....I'd have to argue the latter. There are exceptions like Mexico, Panama, Costa Rica, Brazil, etc....but the rest are on a fast track to their own doom.

And if all they were going to do upon their doom was "poof" into nonexistence, that'd be one thing... but at some point in the future, some world power is going to swoop in and pull those nations out of the gutter (or at the very least, drop them into a slightly better gutter), while remaking those nations in their own image...

Be nice if the world power that did that was on friendly terms with the US.
 
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Ana the Ist

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And if all they were going to do upon their doom was "poof" into nonexistence, that'd be one thing... but at some point in the future, some world power is going to swoop in and pull those nations out of the gutter (or at the very least, drop them into a slightly better gutter), while remaking those nations in their own image...

Be nice if the world power that did that was on friendly terms with the US.

My goodness TLK....I never realized you had such a colonizer mindset.
 
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TLK Valentine

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My goodness TLK....I never realized you had such a colonizer mindset.

You make that sound like a worse thing than leaving them to their doom.
 
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Ana the Ist

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You make that sound like a worse thing than leaving them to their doom.

I just don't want to start propagating a narrative about western civilization going around and lifting up the lesser societies of the world and remaking them in their own image lol.

We've seen that 100 years or more down the line....those people get pretty resentful.
 
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TLK Valentine

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I just don't want to start propagating a narrative about western civilization going around and lifting up the lesser societies of the world and remaking them in their own image lol.

We've seen that 100 years or more down the line....those people get pretty resentful.

People are less resentful when they're doomed?
 
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TLK Valentine

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We'll see.

What usually happens in the past when a nation falls apart utterly is that they either balkanize or get conquered. Anyone want to place a bet?
 
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essentialsaltes

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