Hello everyone!
Once again, thank you all so much for the helpful replies<3
As for AlexTDX and Oldmantook, thank you both especially for your time and wisdom but I do not think the quibble is necessary. In Romans 14, I believe Paul has a lot to say about these kinds of quarrels over 'disputable matters'.
I might not be a theologian, but I think I have something for both of you.
First off, I think it's best to get one thing out of the way. Oldmantook, you say that sin can and does separate us from God. AlexTDX, you say that nothing can separate us from God, as he will never forsake us. I believe the real answer lies somewhere in the middle.
It is not the sin that condemns us--because we live in sin, all of us. That's why Jesus' sacrifice was needed to cover our sins. None of us will achieve total sanctification in this lifetime, and I think that one believer may die more 'sanctified' than the other in many cases. Does this disqualify those who have not reached the same level of holiness as another? No! Of course not.
What separates us from God is when we willingly sin without repentance or guilt. When we desire sin instead of righteousness, we are not living by God's will. I think the best analogy I've ever heard for the process of sanctification or being 'saved', is that when one is living by God's will, he isn't going to be sin-free. An unbeliever is naturally bent towards evil works of the flesh, as like his fallen nature, and will usually pick wrong over right in many cases. But a believer is naturally bent towards God's will and will choose to do right over wrong in most cases.
I also, because of this, believe there is a difference between habitual sin and practicing sin. Those who practice sin do it willingly and with no remorse; but for someone of God's will, habitual sin is more like a reoccurring obstacle. He falls to the same sin out of habit and will feel guilty and remorseful over his sin afterward, leading to repentance. A good example of a habitual sin would be someone with a very bad temper. Someone with a bad temper normally doesn't have the time to stop and think about what he's going to say--he simply says it as a natural reaction. And most good people will feel very bad afterward and repent. Do you think God abandons such people just because they're being tripped up on the same thing? Of course not.
Actually, I think 2 Corinthians 12 alludes to Paul himself having some sort of 'habitual sin';
" 6Even if I should choose to boast, I would not be a fool, because I would be speaking the truth. But I refrain, so no one will think more of me than is warranted by what I do or say, 7or because of these surpassingly great revelations. Therefore, in order to keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.”Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. 10That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong."
God himself assured Paul with the words 'My grace is sufficient for you'.
Now then...the 'works vs faith' part.
Once again, the answer lies in-between. I'm very surprised that Oldmantook didn't bring up James 2: 14-26 for his side of the argument deeming 'works' as a necessary part of the salvation package.
"14What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
20You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. 24You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.
25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead."
What I find interesting here, is that a lot of people seem to equate 'deeds' or 'good works' to repentance, or lack of sin in their lives. Actually, if you take the greek word for works/deeds, ergon, the definitions are as follows;
1. business, employment, that which any one is occupied
a. that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking
2. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
3. an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work
We can also tell from what Peter is saying, that 'work' in the chapter's context is referring to taking care of others and providing for them. This is a common theme in the bible. 'Works', I'd imagine, probably also cover things such as Spreading the Gospel for example. Things that if someone asked, "what do you do for the kingdom?", you could respond honestly with your good works. This is also more than likely what Paul meant in Acts 26:20, saying "First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds" I think from a theological standpoint, that assumption holds up. After all, even unbelievers can act 'good', but how many unbelievers are going to Spread the gospel, or take care and provide for believers and publicly take up the cross? Acting a certain way proves nothing, which is why works are needed alongside faith.
As for the 'Jesus only covered past sins, not present or future ones' argument, I'll have to kindly interject saying that doesn't make any sense. The verse you referred to in Romans 3 does use past tense to describe the atonement of sins, yes, but how else could it have been worded? Furthermore, if Jesus' sacrifice only covered the sins of those who came before him(And us), we'd all be going to hell. The truth is, salvation only covers repented sins. When you take up the cross, it covers all past sins AND future sins; because when you take up the cross, you are repenting from past sins. And as long as you repent in the future as you grow in spiritual maturity, you will also be covered.
All in all, I think 1 John 2 sums it up pretty well;
"18Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
20But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. 21I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 22Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. 23No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
24As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is what he promised us—eternal life.
26I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him."
Those who are in danger are ones who attend Church but have no real love for God and His son, who only wear their 'religion' as a badge and make no effort to walk our Savior's footsteps.
You can speculate forever on who is a 'real' Christian and who is a 'fake', but I personally think that the real evidence lies within the backsliders; those who backslide and turn away from the Lord were never truly saved, but those who backslide as much as they might but never give up on God and try with all of their might to follow his will and fight their sins(even if they might fail sometimes)are truly saved. Even if they aren't holy by our standards, we will never know them the way God knows them. All we can do is offer fellowship and guidance, and to rebuke them when they sin.
Anywho, sorry for the essay XD I've been reading and researching still a lot lately. If anything, these are a few things I've learned and I'm personally going to follow;
- Always read verses in-context
- Some things will only be between you and God, and nobody can judge you for these things(Romans 14 talks about this subject)
- Even the most holy and devout Christians are still just men and are prone to their own biases and sins
- Every Christian, I think, ought to take their pastor's guidance with a grain of salt(unless they're being rebuked for a certain sin)and learn as much about theology and scripture as they can for themselves
On a side note, can we please stop quoting single-verses to back up arguments? I don't know when this counter-productive practice began, but the verses were numbered to make it easier to find quotes to navigate the bible--not to build arguments from cherry-picked verses ;o; You should take them as full documents with paragraphs, as they were written. Verse-picking is dangerous to all sides and not advisable, imo.