Is it sinful to have a Homosexual Orientation?

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Anguspure

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You are the one who mentioned clues; I chose to speak in your language.

You used the word “clue” in your post; I am responding thusly.
I gave you a clue as to why a man might not want to hang out with men after hundreds and thousands of hours, a clue that precious few people understand.
You responded by saying that you might be able to give me some sort of "clue" but that I probably wouldn't understand it.
But I don't need that sort of "clue", and I am very familiar with that line of argument.
Nevertheless the Church commonly expects men to hang out with men and very rarely with women, which for people with no women in their lives creates a problem, because clearly we are supposed to be Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.
 
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Quartermaine

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Lets see where


Have you read the bible?

God put laws Exodus concerning how a husband must treat his first wife when he takes a second. God also set down laws regarding inheritance for a sons of a man's various wives.

In Genesis God killed Onan for his failure to impregnate his late brother's wife

God told David he gave him all of his wives and concubines and would have given him more in 2 Samuel

in 1 kings God says David only sinned once in the case of Uriah the Hittite. so his many wives and concubines were not sins.

Judges, Numbers and Deuteronomy all contain God's law that all the men and boys of a conquered people were to be put to death along with any married women. Virgin girls were to be handed over to the victorious soldiers.

Deuteronomy contains God's law that when a man is caught raping a woman he has to marry her and pay the girls' father a small sum, but it is never a sin
 
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Zachm531

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Have you read the bible?

God put laws Exodus concerning how a husband must treat his first wife when he takes a second. God also set down laws regarding inheritance for a sons of a man's various wives.

In Genesis God killed Onan for his failure to impregnate his late brother's wife

God told David he gave him all of his wives and concubines and would have given him more in 2 Samuel

in 1 kings God says David only sinned once in the case of Uriah the Hittite. so his many wives and concubines were not sins.

Judges, Numbers and Deuteronomy all contain God's law that all the men and boys of a conquered people were to be put to death along with any married women. Virgin girls were to be handed over to the victorious soldiers.

Deuteronomy contains God's law that when a man is caught raping a woman he has to marry her and pay the girls' father a small sum, but it is never a sin
Well you failed to show me where God endorsed/commanded the sex between a man and his slaves.
Onan wasnt just killed because he failed to impregnate his brothers widowed wife, if you pay close attention, that is Jesus direct lineage, if you try to disrupt the lineage of the Messiah, there will be consequences. The old testament never says that you may only marry one wife, though it is clear in the Genesis account that it’s how God intends for it to be, there is no direct commandment against multiple wives/concubines in the OT. There is never an endorsement of rape in Dueteronomy there is this:
“If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭22:28-29‬ ‭
This is not a passage about rape, this is a passage about people BEING CAUGHT having sex before marriage, there isnt a version of the Bible that says this is rape and this has never been interpreted like that in church or jewish history. I also think its important to remind you that Deuteronomy, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers were all given to the people of ISREAL and were for the governing of ISREAL. If it was not reinforced by Jesus in the NT it is not something that is followed.
 
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Quartermaine

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Well you failed to show me where God endorsed/commanded the sex between a man and his slaves.
You never heard of Abraham?


A man should not have sex with a slave if she is betrothed to another man - but if they do, she is to be scourged and he must sacrifice a sheep (Leviticus 19:20-22) punish the slave but not a sin


Onan wasnt just killed because he failed to impregnate his brothers widowed wife,

Then Judah said to Onan, “Sleep with your brother’s wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to raise up offspring for your brother.” But Onan knew that the child would not be his; so whenever he slept with his brother’s wife, he spilled his sperm on the ground to keep from providing offspring for his brother. What he did was wicked in the Lord’s sight; so the Lord put him to death also. Gen 38:8-10

if you pay close attention, that is Jesus direct lineage, if you try to disrupt the lineage of the Messiah, there will be consequences. The old testament never says that you may only marry one wife, though it is clear in the Genesis account that it’s how God intends for it to be, there is no direct commandment against multiple wives/concubines in the OT.
so God wasn't against polygamy at

There is never an endorsement of rape in Dueteronomy there is this:
“If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭22:28-29‬ ‭

Since she isn't' betrothed then one woudl expect her to be under the age of 12

rape is a way to force girls into marriage.

This is not a passage about rape, this is a passage about people BEING CAUGHT having sex before marriage, there isnt a version of the Bible that says this is rape and this has never been interpreted like that in church or jewish history.
so if a man sees a 10 year old girl "lay hold on her" grabs her likely kidnapping her and has sex with her....this isn't rape?

I also think its important to remind you that Deuteronomy, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers were all given to the people of ISREAL and were for the governing of ISREAL. If it was not reinforced by Jesus in the NT it is not something that is followed.
This is a new one.
 
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Daniel C

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Is it wrong to have a Homosexual orientation? Does a person choose to have a Homosexual orientation or not ? Should someone with a Homosexual orientation try to change their orientation and make themselves into a Heterosexual ? Is it sinful to find men attractive?

According to God: Yes it is wrong to have homosexual orientation. Yes it is a choice.

Leviticus 20:13
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
 
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hedrick

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According to God: Yes it is wrong to have homosexual orientation. Yes it is a choice.

Leviticus 20:13
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
That’s not what homosexual orientation means. It means being attracted only to the same gender. There are people wth that attraction who don’t violate Lec 20:13.
 
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Daniel C

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That’s not what homosexual orientation means. It means being attracted only to the same gender. There are people wth that attraction who don’t violate Lec 20:13.


The point being, if God said it is a sin to do the act, then presumably the thought is going to be against Gods will.

How can the act be a sin but not the thought leading up to it?
 
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hedrick

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The point being, if God said it is a sin to do the act, then presumably the thought is going to be against Gods will.

How can the act be a sin but not the thought leading up to it?
Attraction isn’t the same as intention. Otherwise heterosexual orientation is just as sinful. It would be a very unusual heterosexual person that doesn't find members of the opposite sex attractive. If you want to take the position that this is sinful, then we're no longer talking about homosexuality. (We're also no longer talking about any Christianity that I recognize.)
 
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Emmylouwho

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Well you failed to show me where God endorsed/commanded the sex between a man and his slaves.
Onan wasnt just killed because he failed to impregnate his brothers widowed wife, if you pay close attention, that is Jesus direct lineage, if you try to disrupt the lineage of the Messiah, there will be consequences. The old testament never says that you may only marry one wife, though it is clear in the Genesis account that it’s how God intends for it to be, there is no direct commandment against multiple wives/concubines in the OT. There is never an endorsement of rape in Dueteronomy there is this:
“If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭22:28-29‬ ‭
This is not a passage about rape, this is a passage about people BEING CAUGHT having sex before marriage, there isnt a version of the Bible that says this is rape and this has never been interpreted like that in church or jewish history. I also think its important to remind you that Deuteronomy, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers were all given to the people of ISREAL and were for the governing of ISREAL. If it was not reinforced by Jesus in the NT it is not something that is followed.
How is “lay hold of” a virgin imagined to be something other than rape?
 
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Daniel C

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Attraction isn’t the same as intention. Otherwise heterosexual orientation is just as sinful. It would be a very unusual heterosexual person that doesn't find members of the opposite sex attractive. If you want to take the position that this is sinful, then we're no longer talking about homosexuality. (We're also no longer talking about any Christianity that I recognize.)


Where in the Bible does it say Homosexual thoughts are acceptable or just tolerable?

I hear a lot of professing Christians say the act is not ok but the thought is ok and scripture is always absent with this claim,where in the Bible is this supported?

Proverbs 23:7
For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he
 
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PROPHECYKID

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Is it wrong to have a Homosexual orientation? Does a person choose to have a Homosexual orientation or not ? Should someone with a Homosexual orientation try to change their orientation and make themselves into a Heterosexual ? Is it sinful to find men attractive?

Its not wrong to have a homosexual orientation, in the same way it is not wrong to have sexual urges toward a member of the opposite sex before marriage. Acting on these things, in mind and action is where the sin comes in.

Persons can choose to have homosexual orientation like for instance, people in prison who after a period of time make that decision. But for most people I do not think they choose to have that orientation. What I believe is that in many cases, there are events or activities that happened to them early in life that affected them psychologically and then later on homosexual desires come about as a result.

Someone with a homosexual orientation shouldn't do anything but try to develop as close a relationship with God as possible. Trying to change one's orientation is only going to lead to frustration and eventually the individual will just feel like giving up. So just focus on having God be your spouse and lover.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Then not repentant.

If an adulterer repents of their adultery or a thief of their thievery, but continues committing adultery or theft, the repentance is not going to help, is it ?
If someone goes back to driving , and continues running red lights while intoxicated, they will continue to get tickets, then jail time and fines, and so on.
If they stop, they do not do it any more.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Where in the Bible does it say Homosexual thoughts are acceptable or just tolerable?

I hear a lot of professing Christians say the act is not ok but the thought is ok and scripture is always absent with this claim,where in the Bible is this supported?

Proverbs 23:7
For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he
Obviously the sinful thoughts ARE NOT sharing the "mind of Christ", and not walking in union with the Son and with the Father in heaven, as Ekklesia born again set apart by Yahuweh who live separated, holy, set apart, lives abiding in Christ Jesus.
This is not even referring to the demonic influences, effects and presences that others have explained more fully elsewhere.
 
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According to God: Yes it is wrong to have homosexual orientation. Yes it is a choice.

Leviticus 20:13
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

I don’t think people choose to have a Homosexual orientation just as people with a heterosexual orientation don’t choose to feel attractions sexually. I believe it certainly isn’t a conscious choice that someone might feel as they discover that they have a Homosexual orientation.
 
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Quartermaine

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Then not repentant.

If an adulterer repents of their adultery or a thief of their thievery, but continues committing adultery or theft, the repentance is not going to help, is it ?
If someone goes back to driving , and continues running red lights while intoxicated, they will continue to get tickets, then jail time and fines, and so on.
If they stop, they do not do it any more.
Orientation is a state of being, not an action. You are your sexual orientation no matter what you are doing, driving a car, reading a book, skydiving, napping. If you are heterosexual and are celibate you are still heterosexual.
 
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Kaon

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Is it wrong to have a Homosexual orientation?

No. However, it is important to understand there is no such thing as homosexuality if you are a Christian - which is why the Most High God said it is "abominable" (meaning culturally nasty or wrong). Why? Because we all know the design is for male and woman - sex is defined between these two under the Most High God.

Does a person choose to have a Homosexual orientation or not ?

It is a combination of factors: spiritual, environmental, chemical and psychological. In other words, it is the result of sin.

Should someone with a Homosexual orientation try to change their orientation and make themselves into a Heterosexual ?

You should ask the Most High God for a transformation, and trust Him throughout the transformation even if it takes years or decades. The transformation may be celibacy, or it may be affinity toward opposite sex. This rotting flesh is hardly the point, so if it takes denying one's self for an entire lifetime for the sake of the Kingdom, then that is a decision the individual needs to make.

Is it sinful to find men attractive?

Finding the same sex attractive is acknowledging the attributes that makes the opposite sex attractive. That doesn't mean you have to lust after those attributes, or indulge in sexual activity. The temptation is bovine excrement from the enemy: it is meant to get you to go further into sin.

If you feel convicted about your alleged orientation (or even if you are asking hypothetically), then ask the Most High God how to behave in the way He wants you to behave. I mean literally ask Him, and believe He will answer you (and, do not forge the expectation in your head). Trust Him.
 
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