Democracy, checks and balances vs $$$cientific peer review process

Kaon

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. That is accurate. the biochemistry of men and women is a little different and your personal biochemistry also changes as you age from an infant to an elder. That’s one of the reasons you can’t give children under 12 certain medications.

Kaon , sound waves don’t generate electromagnetic waves . The ENERGY of the wave striking something that could generate EM does happen. And I’m going to ask my friend to try that cinnamon treatment . ( of course i m sure that you can see your blood sugar go down.)Im gonna let her ask her doctor if she can do it . Folk medicine does work sometimes

I didn't say sound waves generate electromagnetic waves. Re-read what I said without what you have interpolated for me.

And, you are still being not-so-subtle in your quips. You are free to do whatever you want with anything - no matter your incredulity of it. You are a sovereign human as is your friend. Cheers.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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You really don't get why I am just saying, "OK" to you?

Why do you think people I disagree with can get an essay response, but you get nothing? You are not thinking about it correctly, and it is painfully clear why - so I will help you to understand.

You are an example of what I describe in Post 32. It is very easy to discern your direction and position since your attempts at subtlety actually work to expose you. For that reason, I won't ever seriously discuss anything with you; I have given you responses so as to not be rude (yet, you would try to eviscerate me if you saw an intellectual opening.) I'm not on these forums playing with bovine excrement, so you lot can play games by debating things for the fun of it, or testing the strength of your own ego.

If you don't want to come off like this, you could try not being yourself, or start being yourself.
I see. I ask you to explain how you justify your claim and get an ad hominem response. I hope you understand that in a science forum you should expect claims to be questioned and explanations and justifications requested.
 
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sesquiterpene

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And I’m going to ask my friend to try that cinnamon treatment . ( of course i m sure that you can see your blood sugar go down.)Im gonna let her ask her doctor if she can do it . Folk medicine does work sometimes
I'm curious how your friend reacts when you tell them you got some medical advice from an anonymous stranger on social media and they should try it out immediately.:)
 
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Ophiolite

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It was the effect on you; you are one human - even if you were 1,000,000,000,000 I would still stand by everything I say.
Well, that's admirable. My intent is to never post anything that I later regret, whether this be inaccurate information, a weak joke, an unwarranted criticism, etc. In short, like you, I aim to stand by everything I say and I have been reasonably satisfied with my success in this regard.

I also understand you likely do not understand this philosophy, and you cannot contain your urges to comment on what you believe is nonsense - even though you don't know everything to know what is nonsense.
Two points:
1. It appears that, in regard to at least one aspect of how we post, we have a near identical philosophy.
2. Your comment about what I believe to be nonsense is peculiar. My comment was intended to inform you that your reply to FB was obtuse; that his puzzled reaction to it was one I shared; and one I (implicitly) suspected others might share. I work from the basic assumption that most members wish others to understand what they mean when they post. I think it is courteous to alert members when they may not be achieving that. That was the sole purpose of my post.

You are another example of Post 32: using not-so-subtle sophomoric quips in an attempt to disqualify and dismiss a point or argument - this time, you were unoriginal.
I'm sure I have used a variety of rhetorical devices in many posts and threads, to highlight weaknesses in arguments. (Please note that it is not the same "attempting to disqualify and dismiss a point or argument".) If you reject and condemn this approach then you also reject and condemn Galileo's apocryphal "Nevertheless, it moves", Pauli's "Not even wrong", or Johnson's kicked stone and accompanying "I refute it thus".

However, there was no argument or point to refute, reject, dismiss, disqualify, disprove, discount or otherwise dispose of. There was a simple "O.K.", so simple its meaning was obscure and ambiguous.

You suggest I was unoriginal by quoting yourself. I had hoped that might give you pause, to consider that what you were seeing in others might be something that others were seeing in you; that it might encourage you to review your position. I guess the British affection for irony and mild ridicule just isn't your thing.

I don't ever have reason to respond to your posts, because I know the trajectory of them, and I don't like to seriously converse with people who cant entertain things beyond their own training or schooling.
I don't think I have ever critiqued anything that was beyond my own training or schooling. If you can point to any instances I would find it helpful, since my philosophy is only to post on matters I am grounded in and to make it very clear (implicitly or explicitly) when I am expressing an opinion.

You should understand why in the past I have only given you an "OK", or I say nothing at all to you as well. I am responding now for the same reason outlined in Post 36: to help you understand.
Well, I appreciate your attempt to help me understand. I hope it won't be too much of a disappointment if I tell you that while I recognise your member name I am not conscious of having previously replied to any of your posts. This is not too surprising as I tend to post in response to the content of the post and pay minimal attention to who is posting - with a handful of exceptions.
 
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Brightmoon

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I'm curious how your friend reacts when you tell them you got some medical advice from an anonymous stranger on social media and they should try it out immediately.:)
If you read my post I also said that she should ask her doctor . 2 I’ve got a biology degree and as I’ve stated some of these folk remedies work
 
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morse86

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Anyone who thinks the $cientific peer review process (I call it the $$$$ garbage approval process) isn't as corrupt as the "checks and balances", take a look at the following evidence by nephrologist Dr. Jason Fung which shows you the outright FRAUD in the "medical $cience":


It's not just jason fung that's sounding the alarm. There are actual NOBEL PRIZE scientists, real scientists, that are willing to go against "status quo, collect a paycheck" $$$cientists.
 
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Jimmy D

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Anyone who thinks the $cientific peer review process (I call it the $$$$ garbage approval process) isn't as corrupt as the "checks and balances", take a look at the following evidence by nephrologist Dr. Jason Fung which shows you the outright FRAUD in the "medical $cience":


It's not just jason fung that's sounding the alarm. There are actual NOBEL PRIZE scientists, real scientists, that are willing to go against "status quo, collect a paycheck" $$$cientists.

I watched some of the video, Dr Fung makes some valid points about issues in the medical industry.

It appears that you, on the other hand are merely attempting to smear science in general by association because it conflicts with your own views.

Maybe if you adjusted the childish and provocative tone of your posts you could actually stimulate a reasonable conversation rather than just coming across as a bitter crackpot.
 
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Jimmy D

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I have now watched the entire video, Dr Fung highlights some alarming points regarding “big Pharma”. What he doesn’t mention is peer review, didn’t you watch it? Didn’t you think anyone else would watch it?

I now feel like you lied to me, quite ironic really.
 
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SLP

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Anyone who thinks the $cientific peer review process (I call it the $$$$ garbage approval process) isn't as corrupt as the "checks and balances", take a look at the following evidence by nephrologist Dr. Jason Fung which shows you the outright FRAUD in the "medical $cience":


It's not just jason fung that's sounding the alarm. There are actual NOBEL PRIZE scientists, real scientists, that are willing to go against "status quo, collect a paycheck" $$$cientists.
Wow, I guess we should just ignore science altogether and just listen to Pro$$$perity Go$$$pel Preacher$$$ and televangeli$$$t$$$ and $$$ean Hannity....
 
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Ophiolite

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Maybe if you adjusted the childish and provocative tone of your posts you could actually stimulate a reasonable conversation rather than just coming across as a bitter crackpot.
But a world without bitter crackpots would be blander, greyer place. Long live loquacious lunacy!
 
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loveofourlord

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If you read my post I also said that she should ask her doctor . 2 I’ve got a biology degree and as I’ve stated some of these folk remedies work

folk remedies that work are sold at pharmacies, those that don't arn't, like echinacea and other such things that all studies on them show they don't work, plus some remedies actually are harmful when used as people think, some of the stuff used for cancer actually are counter producitive if used while getting traditional medical treatments.
 
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Brightmoon

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folk remedies that work are sold at pharmacies, those that don't arn't, like echinacea and other such things that all studies on them show they don't work, plus some remedies actually are harmful when used as people think, some of the stuff used for cancer actually are counter producitive if used while getting traditional medical treatments.
I used to believe that too . I tried some of my grandmother’s “silly ideas “and they worked . Of course with a biology degree I was sometimes able to tell her why they worked and I also learned not to dismiss folk wisdom so quickly .
 
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loveofourlord

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I used to believe that too . I tried some of my grandmother’s “silly ideas “and they worked . Of course with a biology degree I was sometimes able to tell her why they worked and I also learned not to dismiss folk wisdom so quickly .

well you can, because any folk wisdom that works would be sold, where do you think many pharmaceuticals come from? There are people's whose entire jobs are to look for folk remedies, and people believe many things work that don't, the plural of anecdote is anecdotes not data. I'm not saying there arn't hidden stuff we don't know yet, but chances are, they were tested and found not to work, and whats happening is nothing more then placebo, and progression to the mean.
 
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Strathos

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Morse, if scientists are so greedy and money-obsessed, why are they spending what must be trillions upon trillions of dollars to maintain that battleship perimeter around the 72,000+ km Antarctic coastline, and everything else that must be required to keep the flat earth conspiracy from getting out?

The financial cost required to maintain such a conspiracy would easily dwarf the entire world's GDP several times over.
 
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sesquiterpene

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I used to believe that too . I tried some of my grandmother’s “silly ideas “and they worked . Of course with a biology degree I was sometimes able to tell her why they worked and I also learned not to dismiss folk wisdom so quickly .
Snake-oil salesmen thrive on anecdotes like yours and kaon's. As a biologist you should know that anecdotes are almost useless when evaluating the efficacy and safety of medicines. You really need controlled experiments.

As a biologist,did you look at the scientific literature on cinnamon as a treatment for diabetes? I did before I first posted on this thread. The latest Cochrane review was from 2012:

"Authors' conclusions:
There is insufficient evidence to support the use of cinnamon for type 1 or type 2 diabetes mellitus. Further trials, which address the issues of allocation concealment and blinding, are now required. The inclusion of other important endpoints, such as health-related quality of life, diabetes complications and costs, is also needed.
"
There are also safety issues, in particular exactly which variety of cinnamon you are using.
 
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Gene2memE

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Anyone who thinks the $cientific peer review process (I call it the $$$$ garbage approval process) isn't as corrupt as the "checks and balances", take a look at the following evidence by nephrologist Dr. Jason Fung which shows you the outright FRAUD in the "medical $cience":

It's not just jason fung that's sounding the alarm. There are actual NOBEL PRIZE scientists, real scientists, that are willing to go against "status quo, collect a paycheck" $$$cientists.

I listened to the whole thing, and its an "interesting" talk.

You still don't get that publication, even in a top tier journal, is a FIRST STEP towards getting a piece of information accepted.

Journal articles are open to challenge, response and criticism. If someone thinks that there is, for instance, an undeclared conflict of interest, there are mechanisms by which that can be expressed.

I also notice Dr Fung was conspicuously silent on the concept of meta-studies. For instance, he brings up anti depressants as a case study, claiming that when all studies are included, there is a 50:50 (ie no better than placebo) result for them.

Yet, if I look up a recent meta study on anti-depressants, we see that "In terms of efficacy, all antidepressants were more effective than placebo" at a range of 2.13 to 1.37 (where 1.0 equals placebo) after examining "522 trials comprising 116 477 participants".

The same study also notes this: "46 (9%) of 522 trials were rated as high risk of bias, 380 (73%) trials as moderate, and 96 (18%) as low; and the certainty of evidence was moderate to very low".

Peer review isn't perfect, and it can certainly be improved. As someone who's published, and someone who's edited articles for review, I know this only too well.

However, its the best system we've currently got. Until something better comes along, I'll advocate retaining and improving it instead of just dismissing results willy-nilly, because they don't fit a particular ideology or worldview.
 
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The_Barmecide

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What is the difference?

In both systems, you have mob rule. In both systems you have tax payer funded garbage studies.

So if the checks and balances can be "controlled", why can't the peer review$$ process?

Like you would know? Tell us how many peer reviewed articles you have written and how many times you performed peer review.

Here's how I know you know nothing about what you speak: I have peer reviewed several times and THERE IS NO PAY. Seriously. NO PAY to be a peer reviewer for regular, quality journals.

Sheesh! If you're going to slag something AT LEAST have a nodding acquaintance with the topic!
 
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BryanJohnMaloney

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What we need are kings who rule by divine right, and a scientist-pope who declares truths about the world through the interpretation of divine revelation.

If the scientist-pope can still be married, I volunteer.
 
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BryanJohnMaloney

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A lot of the problems that people appear to have with "science" is that science isn't religion, but they want it to be religion.

Sorry, I'm not hunting for ultimate truth. I just want to figure out how three molecules keep accumulating in brains and what, or even if, it has to do with how quickly we all go senile (or don't). That's it, just a little biochemical question that will probably take more lifetimes than I have to answer. The vast majority of scientists, nearly all the ones still working in science full-time, have similarly narrow professional issues to deal with.

Sorry. That's the truth. We aren't conspiring to bring down God or rule the world. We'd be happy if the coffee started tasting good. As for conspiracies to maintain some kind of received dogma--not our style. Every scientist worth a cent (or even a mil) fantasizes about discovering something that will completely destroy everything we currently believe to be "true" in the scientific world.
 
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