LDS LDS Jesus Could Have Lost His Godhood

He is the way

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Those who deny Him aren't Christians whether they claim they are or not.


"But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
Rev. 21:8
You are right.
 
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He is the way

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There is a difference between learning your bible verses for Sabbath School and being indoctrinated with the use of a mantra---JS is right, Mormonism is right, constantly, day after day. That is not love. That is bending the mind, it is dictatorship. It is essentially, force of a young mind.
The mantra is this "LOVE Christ and keep the commandments."
 
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Rescued One

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He is the way

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No, in your church "keep the commanments" would be "keep the LDS commandments."
It is good over evil.

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:13 - 14)

13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
 
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twin.spin

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No---It is JS is a prophet of God and Mormonism is right.
I don't think folks like 'He is the way' realizes just how hypocritically double talk it looks when he is quoting the summary of the Law of Moses as being relevant:
then to agree with when stated elsewhere: "we live in the NT not the OT. We live under the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2) not under the Law of Moses."
 
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He is the way

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No---It is JS is a prophet of God and Mormonism is right.
Joseph Smith was a prophet and The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints is indeed Christ's church. We believe Christ's sayings:

(New Testament | Luke 6:22 - 38)

22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.
23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.
24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.
25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.
26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
27 ¶ But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.
30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

(New Testament | Luke 6:46 - 47)

46 ¶ And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
 
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He is the way

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I don't think folks like 'He is the way' realizes just how hypocritically double talk it looks when he is quoting the summary of the Law of Moses as being relevant:
then to agree with when stated elsewhere: "we live in the NT not the OT. We live under the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2) not under the Law of Moses."
(New Testament | John 14:15)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.
 
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Peter1000

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No, in your church "keep the commanments" would be "keep the LDS commandments."
Mostly the same commandments as Jesus taught in the NT. If we had all of Jesus's words, even those that he taught his apostles after his resurrection, you would find that our commandments and his commandments would be exactly the same.

Just a little example: Do you live his commandment to forgive?
Matthew 6:14-15 King James Version (KJV)
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

NOTICE: The penalty for not forgiving? Do you live this simple commandment? It is part of our commandments.
 
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Rescued One

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It is good over evil.

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:13 - 14)

13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

It is Mormonism over truth.
 
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A Gerbil

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I applaud the Mormons on here for vigorously defending their beliefs. I briefly attended a few LDS services, but I do not accept the Book of Mormon.

However the Mormons I encountered were good, honest, hardworking people. I would like to think Jesus' grace will be extended to them.
 
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Rescued One

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Mostly the same commandments as Jesus taught in the NT. If we had all of Jesus's words, even those that he taught his apostles after his resurrection, you would find that our commandments and his commandments would be exactly the same.

No they aren't Jesus' words. They are Joseph Smith's lies. If Jesus never said it, Joseph Smith claimed that Jesus really did, but that the great and abominal church aka the harlot of Babylon removed Jesus' words from the Bible.


Just a little example: Do you live his commandment to forgive?
Matthew 6:14-15 King James Version (KJV)
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

I absolutely forgive everyone who trespasses against me. I love Jesus because He first loved me and the Father forgave me for Jesus' sake.

NOTICE: The penalty for not forgiving? Do you live this simple commandment? It is part of our commandments.

Why are you so curious about every personal detail of my life? It may be part of your commandments; so what? You have multiple extra-biblical commandments. Mormons claim that your church is the only true church of Jesus Christ even though you follow false gods and teach the commandments of men who aren't following Christ.

“Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil.”
Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 14:10

"The kingdom of God on earth is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (D&C 65). The purpose of the Church is to prepare its members to live forever in the celestial kingdom or kingdom of heaven. However, the scriptures sometimes call the Church the kingdom of heaven, meaning that the Church is the kingdom of heaven on earth.

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the kingdom of God on the earth, but it is at present limited to an ecclesiastical kingdom. During the Millennium, the kingdom of God will be both political and ecclesiastical."
Kingdom of God or Kingdom of Heaven

Your missionaries attempt to convert every non-Mormon on earth with the goal of "bringing those people to Christ."
 
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mmksparbud

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(New Testament | John 14:15)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.

He never said if you love me---you must be married in a Mormon temple. He never said if you love me, you must believe in Joseph Smith, He never said you must believe that I have a grandfather who was once human and became god. He never said if you love me you must believe that if Satan had not caused Adam and Eve to fall, children would not have been possible.
 
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Rescued One

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I applaud the Mormons on here for vigorously defending their beliefs. I briefly attended a few LDS services, but I do not accept the Book of Mormon.

However the Mormons I encountered were good, honest, hardworking people. I would like to think Jesus' grace will be extended to them.

No one here is saying that they aren't nice people. We are talking about their false teachings.

This is what the LDS teach about the Christian Tiny Bible.gif Bible:

Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 13: 24-29
24 And the angel of the Lord said unto me: Thou hast beheld that the book proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew; and when it proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew it contained the fulness of the gospel of the Lord, of whom the twelve apostles bear record; and they bear record according to the truth which is in the Lamb of God.

25 Wherefore, these things go forth from the Jews in purity unto the Gentiles, according to the truth which is in God.

26 And after they go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away.

27 And all this have they done that they might pervert the right ways of the Lord, that they might blind the eyes and harden the hearts of the children of men.

28 Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God.

29 And after these plain and precious things were taken away it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles; and after it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles, yea, even across the many waters which thou hast seen with the Gentiles which have gone forth out of captivity, thou seest—because of the many plain and precious things which have been taken out of the book, which were plain unto the understanding of the children of men, according to the plainness which is in the Lamb of God—because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly great many do stumble, yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them.


This is what Joseph Smith said about our God:

“Many men say there is one God; the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are only one God. I say that is a strange God anyhow—three in one, and one in three! It is a curious organization anyhow. All are to be crammed into one God, according to sectarianism. It would make the biggest God in all the world. He would be a wonderfully big God—he would be a giant or a monster.”
(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 372; History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 476)

The Mormon view of Christ:

By the making of proper decisions, Jesus Christ became the Son of God and our Redeemer. By making wrong decisions, Lucifer, “son of the morning,” became Satan.
(Elder Marion G. Romney. General Conference, October 1968.)

This is what Mormons teach about God:

"We believe in a God who is Himself progressive, whose majesty is intelligence; whose perfection consists in eternal advancement - a Being who has attained His exalted state by a path which now His children are permitted to follow, whose glory it is their heritage to share. In spite of the opposition of the sects, in the face of direct charges of blasphemy, the church proclaims the eternal truth: 'As man is, God once was; as God is, man may be.'"
(James Talmage, Articles of Faith, p. 430)

Doctrine and Covenants 130
22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.

23 A man may receive the Holy Ghost, and it may descend upon him and not tarry with him.

From a 1984 Priesthood Manual:

1 God Was Once a Man
As We Are Now

When he was a young man, Lorenzo Snow was promised by the Lord through the Patriarch to the Church that through obedience to the gospel he could become as great as God, “and you cannot wish to be greater”(Eliza R. Snow, Biography and Family Record of Lorenzo Snow, pp. 9-10)

President Lorenzo Snow recorded this experience that occurred when he was still a young elder: “The Spirit of the Lord rested mightily upon me—the eyes of my understanding were opened, and I saw as clear as the sun shone at noon-day, with wonder and astonishment, the pathway of God and man.” Elder Snow expressed this new found understanding in these words: “As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be.” Later the Prophet Joseph Smith assured him: “Brother Snow, that is true gospel doctrine, and it is a revelation from God to you” (quoted by LeRoi C. Snow, in “Devotion to Divine Inspiration,” Improvement Era, June 1919, pp. 651-56)

The Prophet Joseph Smith said:
“...It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God, and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth” (Teachings, pp. 345-46; italics in original).

President Brigham Young elaborated on this concept: “It must be that God knows something about temporal things, and has a body and been on an earth; were it not so He would not know how to judge men righteously, according to the temptations and sins they have had to contend with” (as cited by Harold B. Lee, in Conference Report, Apr. 1969, p. 130, or Improvement Era, June 1969, p. 104).

(Search These Commandments, Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, Copyright 1984, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, p. 151)

I've posted this information many times over the years and have a lot more, but perhaps this will suffice.
 
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Joseph Smith was a prophet and The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints is indeed Christ's church. We believe Christ's sayings:

(New Testament | Luke 6:22 - 38)

22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.
23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.
24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.
25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.
26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
27 ¶ But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.
30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.


(New Testament | Luke 6:46 - 47)

46 ¶ And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

1. We don't hate you.
2. We obey Christ and reject Joseph Smith.
 
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He is the way

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He never said if you love me---you must be married in a Mormon temple. He never said if you love me, you must believe in Joseph Smith, He never said you must believe that I have a grandfather who was once human and became god. He never said if you love me you must believe that if Satan had not caused Adam and Eve to fall, children would not have been possible.
How do you know what He said? Jesus did say:

(New Testament | Matthew 16:19)

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

He also said:

(New Testament | Luke 16:29 - 31)

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

And we have this from God.:

(Pearl of Great Price | Moses 5:6 - 11)

6 And after many days an angel of the Lord appeared unto Adam, saying: Why dost thou offer sacrifices unto the Lord? And Adam said unto him: I know not, save the Lord commanded me.
7 And then the angel spake, saying: This thing is a similitude of the sacrifice of the Only Begotten of the Father, which is full of grace and truth.
8 Wherefore, thou shalt do all that thou doest in the name of the Son, and thou shalt repent and call upon God in the name of the Son forevermore.
9 And in that day the Holy Ghost fell upon Adam, which beareth record of the Father and the Son, saying: I am the Only Begotten of the Father from the beginning, henceforth and forever, that as thou hast fallen thou mayest be redeemed, and all mankind, even as many as will.
10 And in that day Adam blessed God and was filled, and began to prophesy concerning all the families of the earth, saying: Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God.
11 And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient.
 
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mmksparbud

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How do you know what He said? Jesus did say:

(New Testament | Matthew 16:19)

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

He also said:

(New Testament | Luke 16:29 - 31)

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

And we have this from God.:

(Pearl of Great Price | Moses 5:6 - 11)

6 And after many days an angel of the Lord appeared unto Adam, saying: Why dost thou offer sacrifices unto the Lord? And Adam said unto him: I know not, save the Lord commanded me.
7 And then the angel spake, saying: This thing is a similitude of the sacrifice of the Only Begotten of the Father, which is full of grace and truth.
8 Wherefore, thou shalt do all that thou doest in the name of the Son, and thou shalt repent and call upon God in the name of the Son forevermore.
9 And in that day the Holy Ghost fell upon Adam, which beareth record of the Father and the Son, saying: I am the Only Begotten of the Father from the beginning, henceforth and forever, that as thou hast fallen thou mayest be redeemed, and all mankind, even as many as will.
10 And in that day Adam blessed God and was filled, and began to prophesy concerning all the families of the earth, saying: Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God.
11 And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient.

And has nothing to do with what I said. There is enough in the bible to know that your teachings are not in them.
 
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