Why celibate bishops are a big deal?

GingerBeer

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Jesus is not celibate, He us engaged to His bride and will unite with her when He returns.
Priests are, by the same reasoning, not celibate they are engaged to Jesus and will unite with him when he returns.
 
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Anguspure

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Priests are, by the same reasoning, not celibate they are engaged to Jesus and will unite with him when he returns.
I appreciate the understanding but it does contravene the spirit of Pauls intructions to Timothy.
But I am a person who believes that anybody who follows Yeshua is a Priest. The Bishop is simply the sheep in the flock who is closer to Him on the path than I am.
 
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Dale

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Bishops would rarely be making any kind of decisions on marriage issues. That is the issue of the local priest.

You say it's wrong when celibacy is a requirement, but no one chooses to be a bishop. Bishops are selected from among the faithful. Monastics are a good pick as they are going to have the most knowledge about the liturgies and dogmas as they study and perform them every day. All of these things came through trial and error.




Marius: "Bishops would rarely be making any kind of decisions on marriage issues. That is the issue of the local priest."

The Bishops make the rules that are applied by the priests. This is particularly true in confession.


Marius:"You say it's wrong when celibacy is a requirement, but no one chooses to be a bishop. Bishops are selected from among the faithful. Monastics are a good pick as they are going to have the most knowledge about the liturgies and dogmas as they study and perform them every day. All of these things came through trial and error."

You can say that monks are experts on icons and the Orthodox liturygy. That doesn't make them experts on the Christian life.
 
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Paidiske

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Yes, obviously, a priest or pastor, should not date someone under his pastoral care.

However, it is not the priest that might cause the pastoral issue. It is the women looking at the priest as sexually desirable and a possible husband. I recall, even in the Catholic Church, a priest being called "Father what a waste". This priest had a following that went out of their way to try to do favors for him, and even followed him when he moved to a different church. Obviously, this could be a much more serious issue if the priest could actually date and marry.

Honestly, this is a problem no matter the marital status of the clergy. There are "groupies" with some rather disordered relationships to their clergy even when those clergy are married. This is very common and a well known phenomenon which I was taught to watch out for in seminary.

I don't think requiring celibacy, requiring marriage, or allowing freedom in these matters according to the conscience of the priest, really changes that, because it's not the marital status of the clergy which causes it.

Hereditary ministry is what the Most High God told us to follow

For the Jews. Not for Christians.

Priests are the church, so they are married to Jesus?

Priests are only part of the Church. Every baptised person is part of the Church. Priests on their own are not "the church" any more than one leg is a table.
 
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☦Marius☦

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Marius: "Bishops would rarely be making any kind of decisions on marriage issues. That is the issue of the local priest."

The Bishops make the rules that are applied by the priests. This is particularly true in confession.


Marius:"You say it's wrong when celibacy is a requirement, but no one chooses to be a bishop. Bishops are selected from among the faithful. Monastics are a good pick as they are going to have the most knowledge about the liturgies and dogmas as they study and perform them every day. All of these things came through trial and error."

You can say that monks are experts on icons and the Orthodox liturygy. That doesn't make them experts on the Christian life.
Firstly Bishops don't just "make the rules". No one Bishop can make any rule.

Secondly I have lived among monks and I can guarantee you that at least all the older ones I've met were indeed experts in the Christian life. You want to see humility so profound that it makes you feel a spiritual child? Go talk amongst the monastics. I particularly recommend Hermitage of the Holy Cross. Those men were other worldly unlike anything I've ever seen. Holiness was everywhere to be found and miracles were in our midst.


Do you have experience with either?
 
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Kaon

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Honestly, this is a problem no matter the marital status of the clergy. There are "groupies" with some rather disordered relationships to their clergy even when those clergy are married. This is very common and a well known phenomenon which I was taught to watch out for in seminary.

I don't think requiring celibacy, requiring marriage, or allowing freedom in these matters according to the conscience of the priest, really changes that, because it's not the marital status of the clergy which causes it.



For the Jews. Not for Christians.



Priests are only part of the Church. Every baptised person is part of the Church. Priests on their own are not "the church" any more than one leg is a table.

There is no difference between an Hebrew and a Christian except genetic lineage, because being a believer is the consequence of a diligent Hebrew - one that has heard the prophecies and Law of God, and chose to believe it.

The Hebrew leaders fought with each other because some of them were more militant in the approach to the Law of God, while others didn't want to overwhelm the gentiles with law and rules - since the culture of the Hebrew was twine with the Law of God, and gentiles were by definition culturally "others". However, none of the early Church leaders (the disciples were Hebrew believers) suggested a disregard for the Law of God.

The Most High God never actually gave us permission to neglect any of His laws, but he gives us grace to learn how to love His Law and come to full perfection/sanctification. The Church/Virgin Woman has always been Israel, and whoever follows the will of the Most High God is a brother of the Word of God.
 
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Paidiske

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However, none of the early Church leaders (the disciples were Hebrew believers) suggested a disregard for the Law of God.

And yet: "For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to impose on you no further burden than these essentials: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well." (Acts 15:28-29).

The Jewish law, outside what is specified here, is not for Christians. That includes regulations for the Aaronic priesthood.
 
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Dale

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Firstly Bishops don't just "make the rules". No one Bishop can make any rule.

Secondly I have lived among monks and I can guarantee you that at least all the older ones I've met were indeed experts in the Christian life. You want to see humility so profound that it makes you feel a spiritual child? Go talk amongst the monastics. I particularly recommend Hermitage of the Holy Cross. Those men were other worldly unlike anything I've ever seen. Holiness was everywhere to be found and miracles were in our midst.


Do you have experience with either?


Marius: "Secondly I have lived among monks and I can guarantee you that at least all the older ones I've met were indeed experts in the Christian life."


Can they apply that outside of a monastery? The rest of us have to.
 
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rockytopva

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It is almost as if Paul is making marriage a requirement for the office of Bishop....

1 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. - 1 Timothy 3
 
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CaptainToad

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Priests have a choice, they exercised it and chose to be celibate.

You are wrong here. One has to choose before becoming a priest. If one has already become a priest there is no choice anymore other than to leave priesthood.
A true choice would be to choose while being a priest with both both option possible. What we have here is either/or. Wanna be a priest? Have to choose celibacy. No matter how you twist it, there is no choice. But nice try!
 
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GingerBeer

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I appreciate the understanding but it does contravene the spirit of Pauls intructions to Timothy.
Paul instructs Timothy and Titus about choosing elders and bishops. Husband of one wife and so forth is the relevant material. That is not the same as saying that an elder or bishop must be married. It reads more like "do not pick anybody with many wives." or maybe "pick no one who married several times." but it is a matter of interpretation isn't it rather than an explicit command "an elder MUST BE MARRIED" ...
But I am a person who believes that anybody who follows Yeshua is a Priest. The Bishop is simply the sheep in the flock who is closer to Him on the path than I am.
 
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GingerBeer

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You are wrong here. One has to choose before becoming a priest.
To become a priest there are a few preliminaries
  1. The person desiring to be a priest must say he is called to the priestly work and office
  2. The church must discern if he is really called by God for that work
  3. The person desiring to be a priest must meet the qualifications for priesthood in his rite - In the Roman rite he must be unmarried
  4. The person desiring priesthood must express his willingness to remain in whatever state he was in when he entered the priesthood (married to a specific person or unmarried)
  5. He must be educated into the role of priestly life both intellectually and spiritually
  6. He must be accepted for ordination first as a deacon and then as a priest
  7. After ordination as a deacon, for a time, he may be allowed to proceed to the next step
  8. He may be ordained as a priest
An ordained priest may, after requesting permission, lay aside his priestly office and role after which he may marry if he wishes.
 
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Kaon

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The Jewish law, outside what is specified here, is not for Christians. That includes regulations for the Aaronic priesthood.

Where does the Most High God or the Word of God say this explicitly?

Something as serious as invalidation of law for a specific group should be well reasoned and spelled out in a canonical text. The Most High God and the Word of God are the only Two in the entire creation and beyond to hold, change or amend the Law of God. No other human has the authority to add, change or remove obligations of His people.

Where do the Authorities (the Most High God and/or the Word of God) on Law say that any part of the Law previously set up are void or nullified for any group that wants to be a son of God?
 
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