Is this true: Greek Orthodox Holy Synod recognizes Ukrainian Schismatics?

☦Marius☦

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ArmyMatt

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Well in order to do that the Greeks would have to relenquish the GOA which I cannot see them doing by any stretch.

Not only that but if the EP tried to grant tomos to the OCA which is also directly under Moscow, there is going to be utter chaos..

the OCA is not under Moscow. the OCA was granted autocephaly 50 years ago by Moscow.
 
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archer75

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the OCA isn't in communion with the OCU...
But we are communion with the EP.

People online talk like anyone in communion with a schismatic is equally schismatic. But if it worked that way, the OCA and the ROC and everyone else would "fall".
 
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☦Marius☦

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the OCA is not under Moscow. the OCA was granted autocephaly 50 years ago by Moscow.
I was under the impression they were autonomous but under the MP. Didn't they have their autocephaly revoked?
 
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ArmyMatt

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But we are communion with the EP.

People online talk like anyone in communion with a schismatic is equally schismatic. But if it worked that way, the OCA and the ROC and everyone else would "fall".

so is Alexandria, Antioch, Jerusalem, Albania, Georgia, etc.

the only two as of right now that are out of communion are Constantinople and Moscow.
 
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ArmyMatt

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I was under the impression they were autonomous but under the MP. Didn't they have their autocephaly revoked?

no, the OCA is autocephalous, not autonomous. her autocephaly has not been revoked.
 
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Mea Culpa

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I know I have no business coming into The Ancient Way, and if not allowed please remove. I have had an interest and a moderate understanding of Orthodoxy. Can someone explain, in a EO for Dummies kind of way, the issue with the Ukraine Church and the Russian Orthodox in the context of this thread? Thank you for helping me learn!
 
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Principal Moo

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so is Alexandria, Antioch, Jerusalem, Albania, Georgia, etc.

the only two as of right now that are out of communion are Constantinople and Moscow.
Father, what does this mean for Russian Orthodox? I am a Russian Orthodox, so does this mean I cannot commune at Constantinople churches? Is it wrong to pray for them?
 
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ArmyMatt

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Father, what does this mean for Russian Orthodox? I am a Russian Orthodox, so does this mean I cannot commune at Constantinople churches? Is it wrong to pray for them?

technically I think it means the clergy cannot serve together, but ask your priest.

and of course you should pray for them.
 
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archer75

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technically I think it means the clergy cannot serve together, but ask your priest.

and of course you should pray for them.
I think that laypeople have been forbidden to receive the Sacraments in EP parishes.
 
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RobNJ

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I was under the impression they were autonomous but under the MP. Didn't they have their autocephaly revoked?

Wasn't that the Antiochians, a few years ago? There was discussion of the North American Archdiocese losing it's autonomy, but I don't think it ended up happening.
 
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☦Marius☦

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technically I think it means the clergy cannot serve together, but ask your priest.

and of course you should pray for them.

The Rocor has broken full communion as well as MP. They sent out a letter from the Synod banning lay intercomunion between the two.
 
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TheLostCoin

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I know I have no business coming into The Ancient Way, and if not allowed please remove. I have had an interest and a moderate understanding of Orthodoxy. Can someone explain, in a EO for Dummies kind of way, the issue with the Ukraine Church and the Russian Orthodox in the context of this thread? Thank you for helping me learn!

In 2014, there was a pro-EU coup in Ukraine (Ukraine, as a country, is split between pro-Russian and pro-Western, and the pro-Western faction seized power after the pro-Russian president made a pro-Russian economic decision), which led to a civil war when Russia invaded Ukraine and annexed a part of Eastern Ukraine.

This whole conflict became a problem of Ukrainian Nationalism and Russian Nationalism, which always existed but now was greatly exaggerated, and this bled into religion.

Canonically, Ukraine was and is under the territory of the Moscow Patriarch, and was recognized as such by the rest of the Church. In the 90s, a group broke communion with Moscow to have an autonomous, self-governing Church (obviously, Pro-Western and nationalistic) and this Church was seen as schismatic and unrecognized by any actual Orthodox Church.

Patriarch Bartholomew came in, claiming that Moscow never actually owned Ukraine, and recognized this schismatic group as canonical. Russia broke communion with Constantinople in response, believing it to be an infringement of their rights.

And behind the scenes, there’s clear evidence that the United States State Department has been involved with this whole process of recognition.

This whole process has led to a lot of violence, with the schismatics even violently seizing the Russian owned Churches, claiming they have a right to own it.

And now, the Church of Greece (a separate body from the Ecumenical Patriarch) has recognized the schismatic Church as canonical.
 
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Principal Moo

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And behind the scenes, there’s clear evidence that the United States State Department has been involved with this whole process of recognition.
Would it be possible for you to expand on this? I am new to this situation and this is interesting.
 
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ArmyMatt

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The Rocor has broken full communion as well as MP. They sent out a letter from the Synod banning lay intercomunion between the two.

that's because ROCOR is autonomous under the MP
 
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ArmyMatt

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I think that laypeople have been forbidden to receive the Sacraments in EP parishes.

yeah, but I think I have heard of some of the laity going to places like Elder Ephraim's monasteries.
 
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☦Marius☦

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yeah, but I think I have heard of some of the laity going to places like Elder Ephraim's monasteries.
That's would make sense. I would probably commune there or Athos no matter what the EP decides to do.
 
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