THE TRUE "REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY/SUPERSESSIONISM" OF THE BIBLE

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 12, 2019

nolidad said:
Still waiting for you to answer what were the fulfillment of the seals, trumpets and bowls, when did the angel fly the world warning people not to take the mark, what the mark was, who was the ten headed beast or what was the ten headed beast and what was Babylon the Great the Mother of all harlots!

I have 2 threads on the beasts.....I made a separate one on the beast of the Land/Apostate 1st century Jewish Beast....... :idea:

[they haven't garnered much interest for some reason :scratch:

.......]

Reve 13:11-18 "WILD BEAST OUT OF THE LAND/EARTH"

The wild Beasts from the Sea and from the Land

Revelation 13:

The wild Beast Out of the Sea

1 And I was standing on the sand of the sea and I saw out of the sea a wild Beast ascending, having seven heads and ten horns.
And upon its horns ten diadems, and upon its heads names of blasphemy.
2 And the wild Beast that I saw was like as a leopard,and its feet as of a bear and its mouth as the mouth of a lion.
And the Dragon gives to it his power and throne and great authority.
3 And one out of its heads as having been slain/slaughtered into death, and the blow of the death of it was healed.
And the whole land marvels after the Beast.
4 And they worship to the Dragon that it gives authority to the wild Beast,
and they worship to the wild Beast, saying, ‘Who like to the Beast? who is able to war with it?
5 And was given to it a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies.
And was given to it authority to do which it is willing forth two months.
6 And it open it's mouth into blasphemies toward the God, to blaspheme His name and His Tabernacle and those who in the heaven tabernacling.
7 And was given to it to do war with the Saints and to overcome/conquer them.
And was given it authority over every Tribe and Tongue and Nation.
8 And shall be worshiping it all those dwelling upon the land,
of whom not has been written his name in the Scroll of the Life of the Lambkin, of the One slain/slaughtered from the foundation of the world.
9 If any is having ear — let him hear!
10 If any to captivity, into captivity he is going away.
If any in sword shall be killing, it is binding him in sword to be killed.
Here is the endurance and the faith of the Saints. [Luke 21:24\
=========================:
Captivity and sword Luke 21:24 Revelation 13:10
Luke 21:24
And they shall be falling to mouth of sword and they shall be being led captive into all the nations. [Revelation 13:10]
And Jerusalem shall be being trodden by nations until which may be being filled times of nations.
===============================

The wild Beast Out of the Land

11 And I saw another wild Beast ascending out of the land,
and it had two horns like a lambkin and it spoke as a Dragon.
12 And the authority of the first wild Beast all it is doing in view of it.
And is making the land and those dwelling in it that to be worshiping the first wild Beast, of which was cured the blow of the death of it.
13 And it is doing great signs that even fire it may be making out of the heaven descending into the land in view of the men.
14 And it is deceiving those dwelling on the land thru the signs which was given to it to do in view of the wild Beast,
saying to those dwelling upon the land to make an image to the wild Beast which hath the blow of the sword and lives.
15 And was given to it to give spirit/breath to the image of the wild Beast, that also the image of the wild Beast should be speaking.
And should be causing as many as shall no should be worshiping to the image of the wild Beast, that they may be being killed.

16 And it is causing all the small and the great and the rich and the poor, and the freemen and the servants that may be giving to them a mark upon their right hand or upon their foreheads.
17 And that no one may be able to buy, or to sell, except he who is having the mark of the wild Beast or the name of the wild Beast, or the number of it's name.
18 Here the wisdom is being!
The one having mind, let him calculate the number of the wild Beast, for number of man it is, and its number six hundred sixty six.
==========================================
The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 17:
16 And the ten Horns which thou saw and the Beast[from Sea/Israel/Gentiles/Titus?], these shall be hating the harlot,
and They shall be making Her desolate and naked,
and the fleshes of Her they shall be eating
and shall be burning Her in fire.
17 For the GOD gives into Their hearts to do the mind of Him, and to do One mind and to give Their kingdom to the Beast
until shall be being finished the words of the GOD.

Revelation 18:
18 And they cried, observing the smoke of Her burning, saying, "What is like to the great City?"
19 and they cast dust upon their heads, and cried, lamenting, weeping and mourning, saying,
"Woe! woe! the great City! in which are rich all those having ships in the sea, out of Her preciousness,
for to one hour was She was desolated.
========================
I am putting this up for a study, and this is my translation of these 3 chapters in Revelation concerning the great City/harlot/Babylon/Queen.

jgr · Oct 12, 2019

Contenders Edge said:
You flatter yourself in declaring victory too early before doing the required research; something that you clearly are not willing to take the time to do. In the eyes of one who has done so and from a fair and objective perspective, your research would be pathetic. And judging by the following mockery filled statement:

"There is no recognized defender of the true faith between the 2nd and 18th centuries who rejected the aforecited understanding expressed by Justin Martyr and Irenaeus."

You would declare anyone from that generation who did not declare the Church as the replacement of Israel as a nation and people a heretic and false prophet even if they were a recognized historical defender of the faith, therefore listing any names of those whose eschatology was similar to what is identified as Dispensationalism might be pointless.

You might as well take Irenaeus off your list of supporting sources since he does not go so far as to call the Church Israel, at least according to your citation.

A name, or the out.

If you really want to discuss preterism.

Awaiting.

jgr · Oct 12, 2019

nolidad said:
Neither dispensation theology or covenant theology are mandated by Jesus or the Scriptures.

Matthew 26 YLT
26 And while they were eating, Jesus having taken the bread, and having blessed, did brake, and was giving to the disciples, and said, `Take, eat, this is my body;'
27 and having taken the cup, and having given thanks, he gave to them, saying, `Drink ye of it -- all;
28 for this is my blood of the new covenant, that for many is being poured out -- to remission of sins;

What theology is that?

Who mandated it?

Where does it appear?

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 12, 2019

Contenders Edge said: ↑
You flatter yourself in declaring victory too early before doing the required research; something that you clearly are not willing to take the time to do. In the eyes of one who has done so and from a fair and objective perspective, your research would be pathetic. And judging by the following mockery filled statement:
"There is no recognized defender of the true faith between the 2nd and 18th centuries who rejected the aforecited understanding expressed by Justin Martyr and Irenaeus."
You would declare anyone from that generation who did not declare the Church as the replacement of Israel as a nation and people a heretic and false prophet even if they were a recognized historical defender of the faith, therefore listing any names of those whose eschatology was similar to what is identified as Dispensationalism might be pointless.
You might as well take Irenaeus off your list of supporting sources since he does not go so far as to call the Church Israel, at least according to your citation.

jgr said:
A name, or the out.

If you really want to discuss preterism. Awaiting.

Preterism.........the True Theology............

Everything a Christian wants to know about Preterism and the different "Flavors" of it and how it defeats Futurism..............

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see: Rapture refuted

The Preterist Archive of Realized Eschatology

Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive

CAST OF CHARACTERS: Roman: Emperor Nero | General Vespasian | General Titus | The Roman Army || Jewish: General / Historian Josephus | Factional Leaders in Jerusalem || Administrators of Roman Judea Targets: Jerusalem | Herod's Temple // Maps of the Roman Invasion // Theological Timeline

CHRONOLOGY IMMEDIATELY SURROUNDING THE WAR

Stage 1: Murder of James the Just, "Opposition High Priest" ; Irrevocable Split: 62
Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66
Stage 3: The Campaign of Cestius Gallus and the Defeat of the Twelfth Legion: October-November 66
Stage 4: End of Collaborative Government, Priesthood ; General Flight: November 66 - March 67
Part 6: Vespasian Subdues Northern and Western Palestine: December 66 - December 68
Part 7: Three-way Power Struggle within Jerusalem After Roman Retreat: January 68 - May 70
Part 8: Romans Breach City Walls and Leave Jerusalem Desolate: May 10 - September 10, 70
==================================

Preterist Bible Commentary

WANT A PRETERIST ANSWER TO A SPECIFIC END TIME PROPHECY?
CLICK HERE

WHAT IS PRETERISM? Preterism, Preterist Theology and the Preterist view of eschatology is the Christian belief that all end time prophecies have been fulfilled.

NEW EVIDENCE ADDED TO EXISTING COMMENTARY AND ARTICLES ALMOST DAILY!

The following may seem unbelievable. However, all information is taken from unbiased historical records and is easily verifiable.

In Mark 14:61 and John 21:22-23 Jesus promised to return within His generation. Then in A.D. 66 Israel faced its most tragic war.

Revelation 19 depicts Jesus coming with an army of angels on the clouds.

First century historians record an army of angels in the clouds in A.D. 66. Was this the second coming?

Critics of preterism expose their ignorance of Roman history by their criticisms. These people claim that such and such a prophecy has not occurred–meanwhile Roman historical records say that it has
=============================================

BABerean2 · Oct 12, 2019

nolidad said:
Jeremiah said all Israel and Judah would have their sins removed, Paul confirmed it and Pentecost was not that day!

You are changing the definition of the word "remnant" in the verses below.

Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

.

BABerean2 · Oct 12, 2019

nolidad said:
So you choose to rely on Josephus to determine things instead of the Bible- that is your choice!

No. I have the verse below which proves Josephus was correct on this point of Jewish history.

Also, Bible scholars all over the world are in agreement that Josephus was an excellent source on the topic of Jewish history, and the events of 70 AD.

Joh 10:22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.

.

BABerean2 · Oct 12, 2019

Contenders Edge said:
You are the one that seems confused because you think that the better country that we are looking forward to has already arrived and that we are already living in a curse free universe:

"The corruptible has been changed to incorruptible in both of those passages."

Your words. Not mine.

In the passage below, did the Apostle Paul say heavenly Jersusalem was already above during his time?

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, it will come here at the future Second Coming of Christ.

.

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 12, 2019

BABerean2 said:
You are changing the definition of the word "remnant" in the verses below.

Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
.

A remnant was saved before and during the 70AD siege/destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple, which, according to Josephus and Titus, was shortened by the Lord to 5 months.........Oh the wonder of His Word! Amen!

Revelation 9: Tormented 5 MONTHS and death fleeing 70ad

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:22 Days shortened for sake of elect

Matthew 24
19 And woe to those with child, and to those giving suck in those days;
22 And if those days were not shortened<2856> no flesh would have been saved; [Revelation 9:3]
but because of the elect/chosen, shall those days be shortened/
Mark 13
17 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
20 and if the Lord did not shorten the days, no flesh had been saved;
but because of the elect/chosen, whom He did choose to Himself, He did shorten the days.
Luke 21:
22 “For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people
=============================
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see: Rapture refuted

...............This memorable siege terminated on the eighth day of the ninth month, A.D. 70 : its duration was nearly five months, the Romans having invested the city on the fourteenth day of the fourth month, preceeding.
Before their final demolition, however, Titus took a survey of the city and its fortifications ; and, while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF. "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these ?"
=================================
Revelation 9:3 And out of the smoke came-out locusts into the land, and was given to them authority, as are having authority the scorpions of the land,
5 And was given to them that not they should be killing them, but that they should be being tormented five months [Matthew 24:22]
And the torment of them as torment of a scorpion<4651>, whenever it should be striking a man;

BABerean2 said:
No. I have the verse below which proves Josephus was correct on this point of Jewish history.
Also, Bible scholars all over the world are in agreement that Josephus was an excellent source on the topic of Jewish history, and the events of 70 AD.

Joh 10:22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter..

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Our Lord adds "pestilences" likewise. Pestilence treads upon the heels of famine, it may therefore reasonably be presumed, that this terrible scourge accompanied the famines which have just been enumerated. History, however, particularly distinguishes two instances of this calamity, which occurred before the commencement of the Jewish war. The first took place at Babylon about A. D. 40, and raged so alarmingly, that great multitudes of Jews fled from that city to Seleucia for safety, as hath been hinted already. The other happened at Rome A.D. 65, and carried off prodigious multitudes. Both Tacitus and Suetonius also record, that similar calamities prevailed, during this period, in various parts of the Roman empire. After Jerusalem was surrounded by the army of Titus, pestilential diseases soon made their appearance there to aggravate the miseries, and deepen the horrors of the siege. They were partly occasioned by the immense multitudes which were crowded together in the city, partly by the putrid effluvia which arose from the unburied dead, and partly from spread of famine.

[6] - Josephus has collected the chief of these portents together, and introduces his account by a reflection on the strangeness of that infatuation, which could induce his countrymen to give credit to impostors, and unfounded reports, whilst they disregarded the divine admonitions, confirmed, as he asserts they Were, by the following extraordinary signs :

Contenders Edge · Oct 12, 2019

jgr said:
A name, or the out.

If you really want to discuss preterism.

Awaiting.

Would it even make a difference if I gave a name?

Contenders Edge · Oct 12, 2019

BABerean2 said:
In the passage below, did the Apostle Paul say heavenly Jersusalem was already above during his time?

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, it will come here at the future Second Coming of Christ.

.

Well, at least we agree that the New Jerusalem has not yet manifested itself. Where we differ is the timing of its appearance.

Contenders Edge · Oct 12, 2019

nolidad said:
Another thing I do not understand is how over 2000 years of human history is forced to fit nto the old covenant when they did not live under the MOsaic Law!

Not sure what you mean unless you are referring to the claims made by the Preterists who insist that all things were fulfilled in 70 A.D yet have failed to prove it so.

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 12, 2019

BABerean2 said: ↑
In the passage below, did the Apostle Paul say heavenly Jersusalem was already above during his time?

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, it will come here at the future Second Coming of Christ.

Contenders Edge said:
Well, at least we agree that the New Jerusalem has not yet manifested itself. Where we differ is the timing of its appearance.

Maybe not to you, but it has to me and all the Saints in Christ since 70AD ........Hebrews 12:22

Galatians 4:
24 which things is an allegory. For these are the two Covenants, one indeed from mount Sinai into servitude generating who-any is Hagar.
25 For the Hagar mount Sinai is in Arabia is together-elemental yet to now Jerusalem slaving/serving with the offpspring of Her.

Hebrews 12:
18 For you have not come to a mountain that might be touched, and that burned with fire, and to blackness, darkness, storm, 19 the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which those who heard it begged that not one more word should be spoken to them,

Deu 4:11 “Then you came near and stood at the foot of the mountain, and the mountain burned with fire to the midst of heaven, with darkness, cloud, and thick darkness
Exodus 19:16 And it cometh to pass........ on the Mount,and the sound of a Trumpet very strong; and all the people who are in the camp do tremble

Revelation 8:8 And the second messenger trumpets, and as it were a great Mountain with fire burning was cast into the Sea, and the third of the sea became blood,

-------------------------------------

Isaiah 4:5 then the LORD will create above every dwelling place of Mount Zion, and above her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day and the shining of a flaming fire by night. For over all the glory there will be a covering.

Galatians 4:
26But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother.
27For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; Break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: For more are the children of the desolate than of her that hath the husband.
28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. 29But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, so also it is now.
30Howbeit what saith the scripture? Cast out the handmaid and her son: for the son of the handmaid shall not inherit with the son of the freewoman.

31Wherefore, brethren, we are not children of a handmaid, but of the freewoman.

Hebrew 12:22 But ye have come to Mount Zion, and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable multitudes of angels,

Revelation 14:1 Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father's name written on their foreheads.

jgr · Oct 12, 2019

Contenders Edge said:
Would it even make a difference if I gave a name?

Of course; I said I'd answer if you answered.

A name, a relevant quote from his writings, and the source of the quote.

Contenders Edge · Oct 12, 2019

jgr said:
Of course; I said I'd answer if you answered.

A name, a relevant quote from his writings, and the source of the quote.

Yet according to this statement:

"There is no recognized defender of the true faith between the 2nd and 18th centuries who rejected the aforecited understanding expressed by Justin Martyr and Irenaeus."

Even if I did give a "name, a relevant quote from his writings, and the source of the quote", you have already made up your mind to dismiss them as a heretic.

jgr · Oct 12, 2019

Contenders Edge said:
Yet according to this statement:

"There is no recognized defender of the true faith between the 2nd and 18th centuries who rejected the aforecited understanding expressed by Justin Martyr and Irenaeus."

Even if I did give a "name, a relevant quote from his writings, and the source of the quote", you have already made up your mind to dismiss them as a heretic.

Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to disprove that statement.

Contenders Edge · Oct 12, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
Maybe not to you, but it has to me and all the Saints in Christ since 70AD ........Hebrews 12:22

The cited passage was written before 70 A.D. And you would call this present world where sin and death increasingly abound and upon which a curse has been pronounced the New Heavens and the New earth? And when did the New Jerusalem descend out of Heaven?

Emmylouwho · Oct 12, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
Please abide by the rules of CF for this Board........
Statement of Purpose - Eschatology Forum Statement of Purpose
Eschatology Forum Statement of Purpose

=====================================

Note: if you post, please vote in the poll.......thanks

Being a Preterist non-Dispensationalist Futurist, I tend to agree with much/most of the site shown below.......

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Also see: Rapture refuted

Replacement Theology, supersessionism: Christians are God's Jews. The church is true Israel.

"Replacement theology" or "supersessionism" is the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

John Hagee and others who oppose "replacement theology" are rank false teachers whom apostle Paul condemns as "fallen from grace, severed from Christ". (Gal 4:10; 5:4; Rom 7:1-7; Jer 31:31 + Heb 8:6-13)

DON'T CALL US ANTI-SEMENTIC

The vast majority of churches believe and teach "replacement theology". Churches that oppose "replacement theology" including John Hagee, are in the minority. Those who believe in Replacement Theology love the state of Israel and are among her strongest supporters!

Just because we do not feel modern Israel is any more special in the eyes of God than Canada or the USA, we defend and support the only democracy in the Middle east and consider Israel our primary ally in the world of Islamic Nuclear Jihad and terrorism.
We believe that Israel was granted legal title to the historic promised land through the Balfour Declaration (1917) and the League of Nations "Mandate for Palestine" of December 1922. We believe that "Palestinians" is a fictitious title for a "people" that never existed in history, except for the nation from which it owes its origin: Philistines (ie. Goliath) who are a long extinct nation. We do not believe Israel is an occupier or "Apartheid State".
We are neither "far-left" or "progressive" and condemn "Israel Apartheid Week" as a delusional pack of lies. We do not believe Israel is a "cursed nation". We oppose those who boycott Israel and prefer Israeli made products over anything made in Muslim countries because of their high quality. In fact, we admire and applaud how well Israel treats those in Gaza and the West Bank, given the number of terrorist attacks Muslims launch upon the peace loving, hard-working civilian Jewish population.

We reject the "two state solution" of Dividing Israel up into a militarily indefensible nation because the Koran is the problem. Those living in the West Bank and Gaza Strip already have the "two state solution" provided for in the "Mandate for Palestine"… the entire nation of "Jordan"! SO DON'T CALL US ANTI-SEMETIC. It makes you look dumb and uninformed.

Like all Christians we believe all Jews, Muslims and unbelievers are lost until they believe Jesus rose from the dead, repented and are immersed in water for the remission of their sins… and by the way, Jesus was a Jew NOT a Palestinian.

Jesus was born a Jew and lived as a Jew, keeping the Law of Moses perfect and sinless. IT ANGERS US THAT JEWS REFUSE TO ACTUALLY READ THE NEW TESTAMENT. But we still love Israel and support her as a democratic nation!
========================
TO BE CONTINUED

You should educate yourself.

Contenders Edge · Oct 12, 2019

jgr said:
Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to disprove that statement.

Oblivious to it as it may be, unless you can find more of his writings to prove otherwise, you've practically handed one potential name to me on a silver platter. And if I did embark on this mission, even after it was completed, you would not accept the results of that mission.

jgr · Oct 12, 2019

Contenders Edge said:
you've practically handed one potential name to me on a silver platter.

Then your mission should be a simple one.

Awaiting.

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 12, 2019

Contenders Edge said:
The cited passage was written before 70 A.D. And you would call this present world where sin and death increasingly abound and upon which a curse has been pronounced the New Heavens and the New earth? And when did the New Jerusalem descend out of Heaven?

Do a search for titles named "New Jerusalem"...........you can find a plethora of threads to discuss that on.....

title:new jerusalem

NC Jerusalem spiratural vs OC Jerusalem carnal

New Jerusalem?

Markwsmith2020 said:
No it is here now, and has been for 2000 years, it is the church the kingdom of God the new and eternal covenant!
Matthew 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
How can you seek something that does not exist?
Matt 3:1
In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
And the best verse if all!
Gal 4:26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother.
How can she be our mother if she does not exist?

THE TRUE "REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY/SUPERSESSIONISM" OF THE BIBLE

DO YOU AGREE WITH THE OP POST?

Yes

No

I don't know what REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY is

I don't know what SUPERSESSIONISM IS

Does it matter?

Other

I don't know

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