Why celibate bishops are a big deal?

David Neos said:

Howdy!
Bishops have plenty of work to do overseeing local churches and dealing with their problems, have to travel a lot. So they don't have time to have a family.

Do you understand my rationale?

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I guess most big businessmen should be celibate by that rationale.

David Neos said:

Howdy!

Bishops have plenty of work to do overseeing local churches and dealing with their problems, have to travel a lot. So they don't have time to have a family.

Do you understand my rationale?

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You have literally no rationale. Do you think nobody who works away from home most of the year or goes on mission trips has a family? Obviously biships are only celibate because of the Catholic church rules, not their work schedules.

It is a HUGE deal that the Catholic church strictly prohibits certain people in charge from getting married. I would break forum rules if I said what I want to about it.

THE W said:

no one is criticizing celibacy. they're disputing situations where it is demanded or a prerequisite.

there are no examples of positions in the church in scripture where someone is demanded to be celibate or married.

FYI, Jesus is married to the church.

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THE W said:

nothing about bishops being married to the church in scripture.

if you don't want to marry then don't.

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Dale said:

One problem is that when you have celibate priests taking confession, they don't understand the lives of their parishioners. A celibate priest doesn't fully understand what it's like to be marrried, and in particular, to be married and have children.

When you have Bishops making the rules, again, a celibate Bishop can't completely identify with married parishioners, especially when they have children.

In that way, married pastors and married Bishops can better understand the problems of most of their parishioners.

So, no, I don't agree that celibate Bishops are a good thing.

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Bishops would rarely be making any kind of decisions on marriage issues. That is the issue of the local priest.

You say it's wrong when celibacy is a requirement, but no one chooses to be a bishop. Bishops are selected from among the faithful. Monastics are a good pick as they are going to have the most knowledge about the liturgies and dogmas as they study and perform them every day. All of these things came through trial and error.

David Neos said:

Why didn't the Lord get married especially when rabbis got married? Because of the Kingdom!

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No, because crucifixion was God's will for Jesus' life, not marriage and kids.
Just because the apostles left their wives to follow Jesus, it doesn't mean that all Ministers/priests should never have wives at all.
In those days it was a very male orientated society; these days husbands and wives can be effective ministry teams - that's how it was for Priscilla and Aquila, in fact.

David Neos said:

We are supposed to imitate the Lord.

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Indeed, but not in absolutely everything.
Our Lord was a circumcised, male Jew - how do I as a Gentile woman imitate that?

David Neos said:

Is circumcision part of the New Covenant like celibacy?

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No, but castration could be ...

Paidiske said:

Christians do not have a hereditary ministry.

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Hereditary ministry is what the Most High God told us to follow; we decided to do things differently. Even though the Word of God is the High Priest, there are still Hebrews - specifically Levites - that exist. These tribes are still very much so relevant even if Christianity, as it were, has forgotten about their spiritual relevance in this world and the next. Many denominations of Christianity do not have hereditary ministry - that is definitely true. However, the point is that holy men should procreate in order to raise and produce more holy people. There is no restriction on spiritual leaders being abstinent or celibate, and it may be harmful to apply such an imposition.

You also need to have a spiritual foundation to come from if you are going in ministry. Because Levites were charged by the rest of the tribes (and the Most High God) to be holy people, their sons and daughters (if they were wise/good) would follow in these same steps. Anyone can minister to others, but it is a special type of duty (with special responsibilities) to be called a leader in the Church. Levite believers may seem obsolete now that there is no temple, but they are still Levites - one of 12 tribes to judge the nations.

David Neos said:

Let's see how their marriages are doing and then we can compare from that.

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We can't do that. You would have to know every family with one parent being away from home every day most of the year, which only God does. Obviously they cannot all be bad because there are thousands of such couples and families.

David Neos said:

Your argument still puts celibacy as an important part, and you missed up what I wrote about apostles

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No I didn't.
I said that just because the apostles left their wives to follow the Lord, that doesn't mean the Ministers/priests can't have wives at all.

David Neos said:

Is circumcision part of the New Covenant like celibacy?

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Celibacy isn't part of the New Covenant. Jeremiah 31:31-34 says nothing about the state of marriage, or absence from it.
You said we are to imitate the Lord; I' just saying that that doesn't apply to every aspect of his life. Even if you disregarded circumcision; we was still a male Jew, I am a female Gentile.

CaptainToad said:

Of course, I meant priests to have a choice.

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Priests have a choice, they exercised it and chose to be celibate.

THE W said:

Jesus is married to the church.

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Priests are the church, so they are married to Jesus?

Dale said:

The celibacy of Jesus is a unique case. I wouldn't draw any general conclusions from it.

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Everything about Jesus is unique, he is God after all. So is your point that nothing about Jesus ought to be used to draw general conclusions?

David Neos said:

Is circumcision part of the New Covenant like celibacy?

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... maybe understand, too, David that I'm not saying that celibate church leaders should be castrated. I'm simply saying that it might not be out of the question as a practical measure for those males who claim to really and fully want to be devoted to Christ for their ministry work. Of course, castration isn't preferable, but it could be an option to help men in ministry who think they might fail in areas in which they really can't afford to fail morally? Hence, we might consider the following:

Matthew 19:12 (NASB)
For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother’s womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it.”

David Neos said:

I'm not talking about priests. Most of saints who inspire people to deal with sexual sins were celibate so I don't think that means a lot. St. Paul, the one who wrote about bishops, was not married.

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You say that you are not talking about priests, but if the priests, or pastors, are married, then when they are promoted to Bishop, you will have a married Bishop.

You say that most of the saints were celibate. Yes, I've noticed that most of those canonized as saints in the RCC and EO are part of the hierarchy. I'm not sure what that proves. Maybe more people who aren't part of the hierarchy should be appreciated and celebrated as saints.

On the Apostle Paul, he had a hard life. He traveled extensively, at a time when travel was slow, difficult, and dangerous, to spread the Gospel. He was driven out of some towns and had to change his plans. He was sometimes beaten. One of the epistles says he was beaten with rods. He was imprisoned for the faith and beheaded for the faith. I don't think marriage would have been practical for Paul.