I'm spiritually burned out and feel like I'll end up in hell no matter what.

Strong in Him · Oct 12, 2019

theoneandonlypencil said:
I'm not necessarily distressed by anything I do, as I said--I'm just scared I won't measure up to the other Christians and end up in hell. I'm scared of what THEY tell me is sin.

Doesn't matter what other Christians say is a sin.
Your behaviour is between you and God - but your behaviour will never measure up and you, on your own, will never be able to do enough to get to heaven.

Strong in Him · Oct 12, 2019

theoneandonlypencil said:
T I truly don't believe I'm doing anything wrong, but I also would hate to get up to the pearly gates only to have God tell me "Hmm, you did well...but you never repented from watching that one secular tv show, so OFF TO HELL WITH YOU"

It's sad that you think that God might say that.
Eternal life is given by his Son; by believing in and accepting Jesus. You will not lose eternal life because you watch a secular tv programme, or do anything that someone else believes to be a sin.

spiritualchristian7 · Oct 12, 2019

You're in self-condemnation
Stop focusing on yourself too much
Have a change of mind
Fix your eyes on Jesus.
and always remember that IT IS ALREADY FINISHED

In the bible it says that we are babes in Christ
That we, being born-again in Spirit
should drink spiritual milk for spiritual growth.
The Word of God (bible) is the spiritual milk
The more you grow in the knowledge of the Lord, the more you mature
maturity is what you should be focusing on right now
without maturity the devil can clamp you back easily and fall from grace

Another advice would be to stay away from secular music, shows, etc. (worldliness)
These things do not edify your faith in any way, but are a hindrance
Evil spirits work in subtle ways because they are very crafty in their work.
The spirit of this world is not from God so it's better if you surround yourself with good things only.

Psalm 73:26
My heart and my flesh may fail, But God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever.

Kenny'sID · Oct 12, 2019

theoneandonlypencil said:
Being an atheist and believing in 'whatever goes, goes' would be 100 times scarier and more stressful than anything I could face as a Christian.

I like that..

theoneandonlypencil said:
Up until that point, I thought I had been saved and that I could just say a quick prayer each night, evangelize here and there, avoid breaking the ten commandments and I would be peachy-keen.

Many so called Christians think that is all we need, if even that, but sounds to me like you're on the right track, so I'll leave it at that.

theoneandonlypencil said:
I've been wrestling with the fear of whether or not listening to secular media or watching TV is a sin. Because if it is indeed a sin, and I don't repent--I'll go to hell, yes? I mean I don't consider anything I watch or listen to to be that bad.

I still watch whatever a I want to, and end up clicking through any nudity, however, I now find myself watching nothing but movies which is a huge change from the past, and as time goes on, I end up scraping many of the movies I try to watch. IOW, as I grow in Christ, I start losing interest in certain things, and I don't have to even force myself.

theoneandonlypencil said:
Like when it comes to movies, I have no problem if a character has an alcohol addiction/is promiscuous so long as it's present as the character's 'vice' and it's not glorifying that kind of behavior.

Thing is, and the reason I watch what I want. when it comes to movies anyway...they are just stories, and there are many such stories in the bible that include pretty much the same violence or worse, sex, alcoholism or whatever, so for that reason, I don't worry too much about it. And as you say, I don't like it when the dishonorable are honored either, for instance, the very cocky hero, however a show with that in it, might just help me see that isn't good from a christian standpoint, and those type people are for the world to honor, not us. If we are built on the rock, we'll be alright, and will eventually tire of what isn't alright. That's my take anyway..others may feel that would not be the best approach for them.

theoneandonlypencil said:
I guess I feel like if I don't match the holiness of the other people who believe these things, I'll lose my salvation or will be considered 'lukewarm'.

If one can jump form what we are, straight to being as perfect as we can possibly be, that would surely be best. But, I'm afraid the shock of trying that would be too much for some of us and it's best we just grow at our own pace. It's ok to push ourselves ahead as much as possible, but as to the problem you have "keeping up with the Joneses", that's never good. Even many Atheist realize that's not a good thing. Forget about everyone else, simply grow at your own pace, and there may come a time when you are better than the Joneses. Besides, how do we know who the Joneses truly are behind closed doors?

Best I can tell, you have a good attitude, and are are already as good, if not better than most who claim to be Christian. If you continue in the word/growing at your own pace, I assure you, you will keep getting better. Over time, you will actually be able to look back and measure the improvement, at lease that's how it's worked for me when I finally decided to buckle down and take this stuff seriously.

visionary · Oct 12, 2019

We have all been there... But feelings have no criteria for heaven or hell. Now the devil loves to use feelings to break the bond you have with God. It is a spiritual battle. There is a verse I would like you to put your finger on and pray.

It is Rev 3:20... It is an invitation to have a one on one experience with Him. I believe the distance between you and Him comes from the sins that separate you. Lay those on His altar of sacrifice, confessing to Him, seeking Him in a more personal way. He love you and would love to come closer to you in a more real way. While you are in this prayer, be aware of the sins that He brings to your mind. Work with Him on this and confess, yes, even those little dark secret ones, those little white lies, those ones you never even thought of as sin, but He has brought before you. He will open up your book of life and it will be overwhelming like Bruce Almighty found out when his file drawer was opened. Don't worry, let Him deal with it. Just keep working your way through these sins that so beset you, these sins that separate you from the vibrant life in Him, these sins that Satan holds you captive with.

When you come to that spiritual place of the "peace that passes all understanding" you know that your sins that separate you from Him are no longer there. It is a beautiful moment. Enjoy... Now come Him whom you seek. Be ready for it is God,. The Holy One for real. You will feel like Isaiah when he had that experience, and will cry out "Woe is me"... Its ok... God will lay a robe of righteousness on your shoulders so that you might be able to stand before Him. Now is your chance to ask God all the questions that so plague your heart. It is your chance to learn of Him that makes the Bible unlocked.

This is your time. It may seems like your lowest point in your spiritual life, but it is the humble moment when God can work in you and bring your closer. I am excited for you. What a great opportunity. You haven't been running to and fro through all those church doors, listening to all those religious speakers for nothing. It is so God and use them as example to show you what is and is not His. So be thankful. He is leading you. Whether you believe it or not.

Biblewriter · Oct 12, 2019

theoneandonlypencil said:
Hi there everyone!

I just made my account to this forum, specifically, so I could get this off of my chest. I tend to ramble and have a hard time condensing my points, so please bear with me if this comes out too long.

Let me preface by saying that the past 2 or 3 years, I consider myself to have been a very 'lukewarm' Christian. Yes, I preached the Gospel and I was passionate about God when I did, but I was not always thinking about God and I fell into some bad habits. I swore, was surrounded with unbelievers, became very petty and argumentative at times, hated other people sometimes too, and engaged in some very...question online sexual behavior with someone I dated long distance for several years.

This past year was hard. I broke up with my ex to be with my best friend(someone I've had more unconditional and pure love for more than anyone I've met to date), several of my friends either left or betrayed me, and I was going in and out of depression. I hit rock bottom, and once I did, I realized how much I'd been neglecting my faith and how bad that had been for me. Up until that point, I thought I had been saved and that I could just say a quick prayer each night, evangelize here and there, avoid breaking the ten commandments and I would be peachy-keen.

After I realized all of this, I started spending hours every day reading different parts of scripture and reading debates about theology and morality, listening to sermon after sermon by all kinds of pastors from different denominations, learning about the denominations themselves, and overall trying to better myself as a Christian. Sure, it was hard sometimes. I'd hit a wall or point of uncertainty and think 'heck, it'd be so much easier to just give up on all of this' but you know? Being an atheist and believing in 'whatever goes, goes' would be 100 times scarier and more stressful than anything I could face as a Christian. I love God and I refused to give up, and each time even when I got to the point where I'd contemplate the unthinkable, I'd come out of it feeling better and stronger than ever.

I think I've matured more spiritually in the last month that I have in my entire life, and I've been sharing my knowledge with everyone I know. I thank God all of the time for the wonderful people in my life, for pulling me through the hard times, and for all of the gifts and talents he's given me(art, music, writing and programming to name a few). Heck, my current boyfriend was atheist before we started dating, and even he's become very dedicated to Christ and wanting to grow spiritually. On top of all that,I also have started looking for churches in my area and plan on getting baptized a second time(I was baptized as a baby, but I really want to have the memory/experience of it now so I can have it as long as I live as a testimony to my love of Christ)

Now then, that sounds all great right? Well, it would be, except if that's all I had to say, the title of this post would be very different.

Here's the problem; no matter how far I believe I've come as a Christian, I still feel like I'll end up in hell and it's making me spiritually exhausted. In particular, I've been wrestling with the fear of whether or not listening to secular media or watching TV is a sin. Because if it is indeed a sin, and I don't repent--I'll go to hell, yes? I mean I don't consider anything I watch or listen to to be that bad. I have a high tolerance for swearing and (sometimes?)violence but no nudity or sex scenes at all when it comes to movies(I really enjoy anime for example); and when it comes to music, so long as it's not talking about sex(I'm pretty 'eh' if it's only implied to an extent)and it's not encouraging debauchery or anything satanic, I consider it to be okay.

None of those things tempt me to sin, and to be quite honest even after reading scripture I've never felt as though I was being 'convicted' of anything by just seeing or hearing stuff like that. Like when it comes to movies, I have no problem if a character has an alcohol addiction/is promiscuous so long as it's present as the character's 'vice' and it's not glorifying that kind of behavior. The only time I've felt doubtful is when I read devout Christians talking about how 'even seeing or hearing something that God hates is a sin' and that all secular media is mindless garbage(which, granted, a lot of it is; but I don't consider what I enjoy to be in that group). I always try to look for the good in what I watch and listen to, or just take it in as an expression of how flawed humanity is.

I've already read most of the major scripture addressing these things(The psalm about 'setting no wicked thing before my eyes', the philippians litmus test, etc)and even if I try to apply those scriptures, for me personally I just didn't feel convicted outside of other people's opinions. It doesn't help that I've been enjoying a lot of Paul Washer's sermons, and while I agree with 99% of what he preaches, he REALLY seems like he would not approve of my taste in music or movies.

I guess I feel like if I don't match the holiness of the other people who believe these things, I'll lose my salvation or will be considered 'lukewarm'. I could give up any of these things, but I want to make sure it's because of GOD--not other people's opinions--if I can help it, since I really value having a, albeit reasonable, sense of Christian liberty. Even when people say 'it's okay, you won't go to hell' or 'it's fine to watch/listen to those things' part of me is also like what if they're wrong though? I understand we live in a day and culture where people do not respect God's word as they should, and like Paul Washer talks about there are lots more 'lukewarm' Christians than most of us probably believe.

Any advice would be appreciated. I'm really just sick over this because I truly want to be as good as I can while still enjoying a little bit of this life and I AM TERRIFIED of going to hell...and I know full well that God can and will send me there unless I act correctly.

You have fallen into a trap that Satan uses to catch MANY.

And that trap is that your salvation depends somehow on what YOU do.

But when you realize that it depends ENTIRELY on what JESUS did, you escape that trap.

Satan uses that trap to discourage Christians, and to keep them from REALLY trusting in Christ, and Christ alone. His attack on mankind follows a distinct pattern.

First, he tells people that there is no God. That trap catches MANY.

Second, when that has failed, he comes back and says, "Yes, there is a God. and the way you gain His pardon is by being good." That trap catches MOST of the rest.

Third, when that one has failed, he comes back and says, "Yes, the way to gain God's favor is by trusting Jesus. But the way to KEEP His pardon is by being good." That trap catches MOST of the rest.

And fourth, when that one has failed, he comes back and says, "Yes, you are indeed saved, and you will most certainly eventually end up in heaven. But your PRESENT acceptance before God is based on your being good." That trap catches ALMOST ALL of the rest.

But when that has failed. When a person realizes that not only there is a God, but that the only way to have His pardon is by trusting in Jesus. And that not only your salvation, but your eternal security is based entirely on the virtue of His blood. And that not only your eternal security, but your PRESENT ACCEPTANCE before God is based ENTIRELY n the virtue of that holy blood. SATAN HAS NOTHING LEFT! All he can do is try to make you forget that wonderful truth, and to distract you from fully relying upon it.

theoneandonlypencil · Oct 12, 2019

Oh wow everyone, I don't know that I can respond in length to each and every reply(so many!)but I really want to thank each and every one of you from the bottom of my heart<3 ;u; This forum is such a lovely, kind and inspiring one--I'm really glad I joined, and I will definitely be posting here often!

I've taken all of your words into deep thought and consideration, and they've helped me so much and brought a lot of things to light. Here are a few things I realized and what I'll be doing to change them!<3

- You're right. I think perhaps I was, ashamedly, spending more time on 'pre-chewed' knowledge than actually reading God's word. An awful mistake on my end :< I'm going to take a break from sermons/debates for a bit and just read straight from the bible for a while.
- Thank you to those who gave me their honest opinions on the whole 'secular media' topic, even if the advice sometimes was to stay clear of it entirely. I still do not believe most of what I take in from media is 'bad' per se(actually, I used to be a lot worse but have since become more sensitive to certain things)but I see where you're all coming from, and I will keep putting consideration into what I take in regardless.
- I understand now that feeling miserable and guilty is likely not part of God's will for me, and that sneaky ol' Satan was more than likely trying to pry me away from my ever-growing love of God. If I start to feel bad again, I will first and foremost put down whatever I'm doing and pray to God so that he might put my soul at ease again--and for good measure, I will definitely come back to re-read the kind and helpful words y'all have given me<3

Mark Dohle · Oct 12, 2019

You are too self-centered. Get outof the boat and walk on the water as Peter did. It is not easy, and I understand, but to trust in God is a choice. Grace is grace, as you know it is a free gift. God is the Good Shepherd, he is always seeking all of us.

Scrupulosity is characterized by pathological guilt about moral or religious issues. ... As a personality trait, scrupulosity is a recognized diagnostic criterion for obsessive–compulsive personality disorder. It is sometimes called "scrupulousness", but that word properly applies to the positive trait of having scruples.

Scrupulosity - Wikipedia

Prayers my friend for you.

Greengardener · Oct 12, 2019

Your post brought back a memory, Pencil, so I'll share the story. It was of a younger me, freshly "saved." I had a plethora of sin habits to deal with but didn't realize it at the time. But there was one that was bothering me. I kept up a steady dialogue in my mind with God to justify that nobody was hurt, certainly this wasn't bad, and kept asking "Is this OK?" Like you, I had the heaven/hell balance going, and the pull to continue my own way was indeed strong. At one point, I heard that clear NO in my heart. Just NO. What a stopping point in the story it was for me. But what LIBERTY I found on taking that deep breath and saying, "OK. Your way." And in agreeing with God I found power to overcome. On looking back I wish I had wrestled longer with other issues, but I did find over time that His way prevailed.

I can look back on that story over decades of this walk, in and out of obedience. I can tell you that it's worth it to chuck the checklists and just aim for His very heart. The way is narrow, Jesus said. Few will find it. There are plenty to compare ourselves to out there in the "Christian" as well as secular world, so you can always find a type of solace at being better than the secular or even better than the "Christian." But what use is that? The measure is Christ. Be His, and be His fully. He's given you all you need for life and godliness in the knowledge of Christ. Be holy, as He is holy, for without holiness, no man will see God. Gird up the loins of your mind and run this race, knowing at the goal is Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith. Be encouraged, sister!

expos4ever · Oct 12, 2019

At the risk of inciting a firestorm (pun intended) of debate, I suggest the idea that a loving God would consign people to an eternity of torment is almost the very definition of insanity.

Now then. I realize you are in turmoil, and I get it. But, please, give your head a shake and ask yourself whether the notion of eternal torment makes any sense at all.

Besides, I don’t even think it is Biblical. I am not wanting to debate since I assume that is not allowed here.

But I do think “give up a terrifying false belief” is compassionate, reasonable Christian advice.

tdidymas · Oct 12, 2019

theoneandonlypencil said:
Oh wow everyone, I don't know that I can respond in length to each and every reply(so many!)but I really want to thank each and every one of you from the bottom of my heart<3 ;u; This forum is such a lovely, kind and inspiring one--I'm really glad I joined, and I will definitely be posting here often!

I've taken all of your words into deep thought and consideration, and they've helped me so much and brought a lot of things to light. Here are a few things I realized and what I'll be doing to change them!<3

- You're right. I think perhaps I was, ashamedly, spending more time on 'pre-chewed' knowledge than actually reading God's word. An awful mistake on my end :< I'm going to take a break from sermons/debates for a bit and just read straight from the bible for a while.
- Thank you to those who gave me their honest opinions on the whole 'secular media' topic, even if the advice sometimes was to stay clear of it entirely. I still do not believe most of what I take in from media is 'bad' per se(actually, I used to be a lot worse but have since become more sensitive to certain things)but I see where you're all coming from, and I will keep putting consideration into what I take in regardless.
- I understand now that feeling miserable and guilty is likely not part of God's will for me, and that sneaky ol' Satan was more than likely trying to pry me away from my ever-growing love of God. If I start to feel bad again, I will first and foremost put down whatever I'm doing and pray to God so that he might put my soul at ease again--and for good measure, I will definitely come back to re-read the kind and helpful words y'all have given me<3

Something you might try is, for a time, find something else to do than entertainment, something a bit more constructive. It's like fasting, from something you enjoy. It's just a way to strengthen your psyche, and it appears that you need more strength in your conscious faith.

Personally I find no evil in entertainment, as long as it doesn't consume my life. I know enough of scripture that I can evaluate what I am entertained by, whether it be good or bad. The apostle Paul wrote "Let each one be convinced in his own mind." This was in reference to whether or not the sabbath is a special day, but I think it has application in this matter.

We all have legalistic tendencies in what we do, but until our conscience is properly educated, we have to follow what it dictates, if we want to live in peace with ourselves. If someone else is condemning us because of some nitpicking rule they follow, we have to learn how to disregard it. That has to do with psychological boundaries.

Another thing to consider is the fact that the redemption of Christ is permanent. If we have been redeemed, there is no being unredeemed. I'll not get into the theology of that right now, but IMO those feelings of "I might go to hell if I don't measure up" is merely doctrinal drivel. We are either saved by the grace of God, or not. There was a point in my life that I became fully convinced all the way into my subconscious. Until that happened, I had to have patience with myself.
TD

GraceBro · Oct 12, 2019

theoneandonlypencil said:
Hi there everyone!

I just made my account to this forum, specifically, so I could get this off of my chest. I tend to ramble and have a hard time condensing my points, so please bear with me if this comes out too long.

Let me preface by saying that the past 2 or 3 years, I consider myself to have been a very 'lukewarm' Christian. Yes, I preached the Gospel and I was passionate about God when I did, but I was not always thinking about God and I fell into some bad habits. I swore, was surrounded with unbelievers, became very petty and argumentative at times, hated other people sometimes too, and engaged in some very...question online sexual behavior with someone I dated long distance for several years.

This past year was hard. I broke up with my ex to be with my best friend(someone I've had more unconditional and pure love for more than anyone I've met to date), several of my friends either left or betrayed me, and I was going in and out of depression. I hit rock bottom, and once I did, I realized how much I'd been neglecting my faith and how bad that had been for me. Up until that point, I thought I had been saved and that I could just say a quick prayer each night, evangelize here and there, avoid breaking the ten commandments and I would be peachy-keen.

After I realized all of this, I started spending hours every day reading different parts of scripture and reading debates about theology and morality, listening to sermon after sermon by all kinds of pastors from different denominations, learning about the denominations themselves, and overall trying to better myself as a Christian. Sure, it was hard sometimes. I'd hit a wall or point of uncertainty and think 'heck, it'd be so much easier to just give up on all of this' but you know? Being an atheist and believing in 'whatever goes, goes' would be 100 times scarier and more stressful than anything I could face as a Christian. I love God and I refused to give up, and each time even when I got to the point where I'd contemplate the unthinkable, I'd come out of it feeling better and stronger than ever.

I think I've matured more spiritually in the last month that I have in my entire life, and I've been sharing my knowledge with everyone I know. I thank God all of the time for the wonderful people in my life, for pulling me through the hard times, and for all of the gifts and talents he's given me(art, music, writing and programming to name a few). Heck, my current boyfriend was atheist before we started dating, and even he's become very dedicated to Christ and wanting to grow spiritually. On top of all that,I also have started looking for churches in my area and plan on getting baptized a second time(I was baptized as a baby, but I really want to have the memory/experience of it now so I can have it as long as I live as a testimony to my love of Christ)

Now then, that sounds all great right? Well, it would be, except if that's all I had to say, the title of this post would be very different.

Here's the problem; no matter how far I believe I've come as a Christian, I still feel like I'll end up in hell and it's making me spiritually exhausted. In particular, I've been wrestling with the fear of whether or not listening to secular media or watching TV is a sin. Because if it is indeed a sin, and I don't repent--I'll go to hell, yes? I mean I don't consider anything I watch or listen to to be that bad. I have a high tolerance for swearing and (sometimes?)violence but no nudity or sex scenes at all when it comes to movies(I really enjoy anime for example); and when it comes to music, so long as it's not talking about sex(I'm pretty 'eh' if it's only implied to an extent)and it's not encouraging debauchery or anything satanic, I consider it to be okay.

None of those things tempt me to sin, and to be quite honest even after reading scripture I've never felt as though I was being 'convicted' of anything by just seeing or hearing stuff like that. Like when it comes to movies, I have no problem if a character has an alcohol addiction/is promiscuous so long as it's present as the character's 'vice' and it's not glorifying that kind of behavior. The only time I've felt doubtful is when I read devout Christians talking about how 'even seeing or hearing something that God hates is a sin' and that all secular media is mindless garbage(which, granted, a lot of it is; but I don't consider what I enjoy to be in that group). I always try to look for the good in what I watch and listen to, or just take it in as an expression of how flawed humanity is.

I've already read most of the major scripture addressing these things(The psalm about 'setting no wicked thing before my eyes', the philippians litmus test, etc)and even if I try to apply those scriptures, for me personally I just didn't feel convicted outside of other people's opinions. It doesn't help that I've been enjoying a lot of Paul Washer's sermons, and while I agree with 99% of what he preaches, he REALLY seems like he would not approve of my taste in music or movies.

I guess I feel like if I don't match the holiness of the other people who believe these things, I'll lose my salvation or will be considered 'lukewarm'. I could give up any of these things, but I want to make sure it's because of GOD--not other people's opinions--if I can help it, since I really value having a, albeit reasonable, sense of Christian liberty. Even when people say 'it's okay, you won't go to hell' or 'it's fine to watch/listen to those things' part of me is also like what if they're wrong though? I understand we live in a day and culture where people do not respect God's word as they should, and like Paul Washer talks about there are lots more 'lukewarm' Christians than most of us probably believe.

Any advice would be appreciated. I'm really just sick over this because I truly want to be as good as I can while still enjoying a little bit of this life and I AM TERRIFIED of going to hell...and I know full well that God can and will send me there unless I act correctly.

It comes down to what is your understanding of the Gospel? You probably are expecting things from God He hasn't promised to give you and not realizing those things He has freely given to you through your faith in Jesus Christ. Or believe He is expecting something from you that He is not. Either way, it begins with knowing and believing the Gospel. I have resources if you are interested. God bless.

eleos1954 · Oct 12, 2019

theoneandonlypencil said:
Hi there everyone!

I just made my account to this forum, specifically, so I could get this off of my chest. I tend to ramble and have a hard time condensing my points, so please bear with me if this comes out too long.

Let me preface by saying that the past 2 or 3 years, I consider myself to have been a very 'lukewarm' Christian. Yes, I preached the Gospel and I was passionate about God when I did, but I was not always thinking about God and I fell into some bad habits. I swore, was surrounded with unbelievers, became very petty and argumentative at times, hated other people sometimes too, and engaged in some very...question online sexual behavior with someone I dated long distance for several years.

This past year was hard. I broke up with my ex to be with my best friend(someone I've had more unconditional and pure love for more than anyone I've met to date), several of my friends either left or betrayed me, and I was going in and out of depression. I hit rock bottom, and once I did, I realized how much I'd been neglecting my faith and how bad that had been for me. Up until that point, I thought I had been saved and that I could just say a quick prayer each night, evangelize here and there, avoid breaking the ten commandments and I would be peachy-keen.

After I realized all of this, I started spending hours every day reading different parts of scripture and reading debates about theology and morality, listening to sermon after sermon by all kinds of pastors from different denominations, learning about the denominations themselves, and overall trying to better myself as a Christian. Sure, it was hard sometimes. I'd hit a wall or point of uncertainty and think 'heck, it'd be so much easier to just give up on all of this' but you know? Being an atheist and believing in 'whatever goes, goes' would be 100 times scarier and more stressful than anything I could face as a Christian. I love God and I refused to give up, and each time even when I got to the point where I'd contemplate the unthinkable, I'd come out of it feeling better and stronger than ever.

I think I've matured more spiritually in the last month that I have in my entire life, and I've been sharing my knowledge with everyone I know. I thank God all of the time for the wonderful people in my life, for pulling me through the hard times, and for all of the gifts and talents he's given me(art, music, writing and programming to name a few). Heck, my current boyfriend was atheist before we started dating, and even he's become very dedicated to Christ and wanting to grow spiritually. On top of all that,I also have started looking for churches in my area and plan on getting baptized a second time(I was baptized as a baby, but I really want to have the memory/experience of it now so I can have it as long as I live as a testimony to my love of Christ)

Now then, that sounds all great right? Well, it would be, except if that's all I had to say, the title of this post would be very different.

Here's the problem; no matter how far I believe I've come as a Christian, I still feel like I'll end up in hell and it's making me spiritually exhausted. In particular, I've been wrestling with the fear of whether or not listening to secular media or watching TV is a sin. Because if it is indeed a sin, and I don't repent--I'll go to hell, yes? I mean I don't consider anything I watch or listen to to be that bad. I have a high tolerance for swearing and (sometimes?)violence but no nudity or sex scenes at all when it comes to movies(I really enjoy anime for example); and when it comes to music, so long as it's not talking about sex(I'm pretty 'eh' if it's only implied to an extent)and it's not encouraging debauchery or anything satanic, I consider it to be okay.

None of those things tempt me to sin, and to be quite honest even after reading scripture I've never felt as though I was being 'convicted' of anything by just seeing or hearing stuff like that. Like when it comes to movies, I have no problem if a character has an alcohol addiction/is promiscuous so long as it's present as the character's 'vice' and it's not glorifying that kind of behavior. The only time I've felt doubtful is when I read devout Christians talking about how 'even seeing or hearing something that God hates is a sin' and that all secular media is mindless garbage(which, granted, a lot of it is; but I don't consider what I enjoy to be in that group). I always try to look for the good in what I watch and listen to, or just take it in as an expression of how flawed humanity is.

I've already read most of the major scripture addressing these things(The psalm about 'setting no wicked thing before my eyes', the philippians litmus test, etc)and even if I try to apply those scriptures, for me personally I just didn't feel convicted outside of other people's opinions. It doesn't help that I've been enjoying a lot of Paul Washer's sermons, and while I agree with 99% of what he preaches, he REALLY seems like he would not approve of my taste in music or movies.

I guess I feel like if I don't match the holiness of the other people who believe these things, I'll lose my salvation or will be considered 'lukewarm'. I could give up any of these things, but I want to make sure it's because of GOD--not other people's opinions--if I can help it, since I really value having a, albeit reasonable, sense of Christian liberty. Even when people say 'it's okay, you won't go to hell' or 'it's fine to watch/listen to those things' part of me is also like what if they're wrong though? I understand we live in a day and culture where people do not respect God's word as they should, and like Paul Washer talks about there are lots more 'lukewarm' Christians than most of us probably believe.

Any advice would be appreciated. I'm really just sick over this because I truly want to be as good as I can while still enjoying a little bit of this life and I AM TERRIFIED of going to hell...and I know full well that God can and will send me there unless I act correctly.

First ... quit comparing yourself with others. Each of us has a personal relationship with the Lord and He works in each of us (helps us through our struggles). What you may struggle with another one may not .... what they struggle with you may not. Also ... people have "secret things" that only the Lord knows about those struggles.

You should not be terrified of going to hell. These "feelings" are not from the Lord ... they are from satan. Satan just loves to try and make us think we are not worthy or "good enough" for God. Placing doubt in us. Say to him in the name of Jesus ... away from me satan ... I do not accept your lies.

Also ... we are not to trust in our "feelings" ... we are to trust in teachings of Christ.

So often ... I hear .... feel this way .... feel that way .... don't feel like ....

Trust in His written promises and not your feelings!

1 John 3:20
If our hearts condemn us, God is greater than our hearts, and He knows all things.

We have Jesus and can boldly go to the throne with confidence.

Ephesians 3:12
In Him and through faith in Him we may enter God's presence with boldness and confidence.

We all need to Study His Word diligently, be prayerful and thankful. Asking for forgiveness when we mess up .... and understanding He forgives us quickly so we may rest in Him. He doesn't want us to be in turmoil .... He wants us to rest in Him and be confident.

and know this .....

Philippians 1:6

Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

May all quit falling for the lies of the enemy and may Jesus cast him out of our lives. Amen!

Oldmantook · Oct 12, 2019

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Oldmantook · Oct 12, 2019

theoneandonlypencil said:
Hi there everyone!

I just made my account to this forum, specifically, so I could get this off of my chest. I tend to ramble and have a hard time condensing my points, so please bear with me if this comes out too long.

Let me preface by saying that the past 2 or 3 years, I consider myself to have been a very 'lukewarm' Christian. Yes, I preached the Gospel and I was passionate about God when I did, but I was not always thinking about God and I fell into some bad habits. I swore, was surrounded with unbelievers, became very petty and argumentative at times, hated other people sometimes too, and engaged in some very...question online sexual behavior with someone I dated long distance for several years.

This past year was hard. I broke up with my ex to be with my best friend(someone I've had more unconditional and pure love for more than anyone I've met to date), several of my friends either left or betrayed me, and I was going in and out of depression. I hit rock bottom, and once I did, I realized how much I'd been neglecting my faith and how bad that had been for me. Up until that point, I thought I had been saved and that I could just say a quick prayer each night, evangelize here and there, avoid breaking the ten commandments and I would be peachy-keen.

After I realized all of this, I started spending hours every day reading different parts of scripture and reading debates about theology and morality, listening to sermon after sermon by all kinds of pastors from different denominations, learning about the denominations themselves, and overall trying to better myself as a Christian. Sure, it was hard sometimes. I'd hit a wall or point of uncertainty and think 'heck, it'd be so much easier to just give up on all of this' but you know? Being an atheist and believing in 'whatever goes, goes' would be 100 times scarier and more stressful than anything I could face as a Christian. I love God and I refused to give up, and each time even when I got to the point where I'd contemplate the unthinkable, I'd come out of it feeling better and stronger than ever.

I think I've matured more spiritually in the last month that I have in my entire life, and I've been sharing my knowledge with everyone I know. I thank God all of the time for the wonderful people in my life, for pulling me through the hard times, and for all of the gifts and talents he's given me(art, music, writing and programming to name a few). Heck, my current boyfriend was atheist before we started dating, and even he's become very dedicated to Christ and wanting to grow spiritually. On top of all that,I also have started looking for churches in my area and plan on getting baptized a second time(I was baptized as a baby, but I really want to have the memory/experience of it now so I can have it as long as I live as a testimony to my love of Christ)

Now then, that sounds all great right? Well, it would be, except if that's all I had to say, the title of this post would be very different.

Here's the problem; no matter how far I believe I've come as a Christian, I still feel like I'll end up in hell and it's making me spiritually exhausted. In particular, I've been wrestling with the fear of whether or not listening to secular media or watching TV is a sin. Because if it is indeed a sin, and I don't repent--I'll go to hell, yes? I mean I don't consider anything I watch or listen to to be that bad. I have a high tolerance for swearing and (sometimes?)violence but no nudity or sex scenes at all when it comes to movies(I really enjoy anime for example); and when it comes to music, so long as it's not talking about sex(I'm pretty 'eh' if it's only implied to an extent)and it's not encouraging debauchery or anything satanic, I consider it to be okay.

None of those things tempt me to sin, and to be quite honest even after reading scripture I've never felt as though I was being 'convicted' of anything by just seeing or hearing stuff like that. Like when it comes to movies, I have no problem if a character has an alcohol addiction/is promiscuous so long as it's present as the character's 'vice' and it's not glorifying that kind of behavior. The only time I've felt doubtful is when I read devout Christians talking about how 'even seeing or hearing something that God hates is a sin' and that all secular media is mindless garbage(which, granted, a lot of it is; but I don't consider what I enjoy to be in that group). I always try to look for the good in what I watch and listen to, or just take it in as an expression of how flawed humanity is.

I've already read most of the major scripture addressing these things(The psalm about 'setting no wicked thing before my eyes', the philippians litmus test, etc)and even if I try to apply those scriptures, for me personally I just didn't feel convicted outside of other people's opinions. It doesn't help that I've been enjoying a lot of Paul Washer's sermons, and while I agree with 99% of what he preaches, he REALLY seems like he would not approve of my taste in music or movies.

I guess I feel like if I don't match the holiness of the other people who believe these things, I'll lose my salvation or will be considered 'lukewarm'. I could give up any of these things, but I want to make sure it's because of GOD--not other people's opinions--if I can help it, since I really value having a, albeit reasonable, sense of Christian liberty. Even when people say 'it's okay, you won't go to hell' or 'it's fine to watch/listen to those things' part of me is also like what if they're wrong though? I understand we live in a day and culture where people do not respect God's word as they should, and like Paul Washer talks about there are lots more 'lukewarm' Christians than most of us probably believe.

Any advice would be appreciated. I'm really just sick over this because I truly want to be as good as I can while still enjoying a little bit of this life and I AM TERRIFIED of going to hell...and I know full well that God can and will send me there unless I act correctly.

May I suggest you read through the book of 1 John? A few times to let it sink in as I think it addresses the dilemma you find yourself in. This book was written so that we can distinguish between habitual sin or the practice of sin, and occasional sin. It makes it clear that we all sin and no one is without sin according to 1 Jn 1:8,10. Pay particular attention to 1 Jn 1:7 as it has a condition attached to it as indicated by the word "IF." It states "If" we walk in the light, Jesus's blood cleanses us from all sin. As long as our way of life can be characterized by obedience to God (walking in the light), then we are assured of his forgiveness and cleansing. It doesn't mean we are perfect and sinless so we still occasionally sin; just that our lifestyle is characteristic of repentance and growing in holiness.
Contrast this with Chapt. 3 where John writes that the practice of sin of sin brings condemnation - "He who practices sin is of the devil...." in v.8. By contrast he who practices righteousness is righteous in v.7.

So believe it or not, I think you are on the right track as you don't want to sin but just know that you will sin since we are not sinless. At the same time, you don't want to fall into the ditch of habitual sin either. John provided us with further guidance for our assurance as seen in these verses:
1 Jn 3:3 And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
1 Jn 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him, so that when he appears we may have confidence and not shrink from him in shame at his coming.
1 Jn 2:29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.
1 Jn 3:14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death.
1 Jn 3:21 Beloved, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God,
1 Jn 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another, because love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.

Keep on persevering and you will be an overcomer.

Akita Suggagaki · Oct 12, 2019

Play some soft music and relax. God does not want you stressing out in this way.. Count you blessings and give thanks.

Oldmantook · Oct 12, 2019

AlexDTX said:
There is nothing that can separate you from the love of God in Christ Jesus because God is reconciled to the world through Christ. If you have the new birth, knowing you were a sinner, and believe in what Jesus has done, you are a saint already in heaven by your spirit.

Heaven and Hell are non issues for those born again. Following Christ's example and living as Christ called us to live is not a matter of works but faith. How well or poorly we follow his example impacts only our quality of life now. It does not separate us from God. But it does affect how much God's blessings flow upon us.

Elijah was a failure in that he only did one out of three things God told him to do. Elisha, his disciple completed those other two things. Yet Elijah was allowed to by pass death and go to heaven in what seems to be a flying chariot. Why? Because Elijah loved God and God loved him. This is what being a Christian is about.

Sin can and does separate us from God. When we were made alive in Christ, we confessed our sins up to that point and our PAST sins were forgiven per Rom 3:25 "whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;" and 2 Pet 1:9 "But whoever lacks these traits is nearsighted to the point of blindness, having forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.
No assurance of forgiveness is to be had for sins in the present or the future as those sins still require repentance. One cannot repent of sin not yet committed.

Swan7 · Oct 12, 2019

@theoneandonlypencil
This is like going down memory lane for me because I come from a similar background to what you have described. For years I thought I was a Christian because I was born into a "Christian" household. For years I knew about God, but I didn't know Him personally. My problem was retaining information from people rather than what God said in His own Word. My biggest problem was not going to God for many things because I thought I had to be strong for God to meet His standards. I went by my own strength for a long time and doing that nearly ended my life twice.

I had to come to a place where I was completely broken where I became very vulnerable to God. I couldn't hide anymore, there was no place to go. It was like God shone His light which exposed me and I was far too shameful to speak to Him. Yet, He stretched out His hand and I accepted His gentle grace.

Salvation is a gift that we cannot attain by doing something, but rather freely given by the choice of following Christ day by day. Being a Christian is a progress we all go through and God will test us for our faith in Him.
August 14, 2014 is when I made the decision to accept Christ's gift of Salvation and all I had to do was humble myself by admitting how wrong I was in everything (repentance) and to ask for His help, His guidance (Daniel 10:12). I asked for His wisdom, the language He speaks in His own Word so that I may understand and be deceived no longer. This is where real Christianity began for me.

With that being said, know that you will be tried and tested for your faith. The enemy will try to sway you and make you feel condemned - the same trick was played on me, but I relied on God and what is written in His Word. I was tested for things I did not yet know and it made me research the Bible with the Holy Spirit. God uses the enemy to help us grow.

As for the music and movies, I will use my own testimony to help you: I used to really enjoy some secular music and since becoming a child of God, there are some I cannot listen to without revolting on the inside. The same goes for some anime and movies; for example, I can no longer watch Death Note, especially the movie. They twisted scripture to fit their narrative to be against Christianity. Sailor Moon I am still able to watch - which holds something personal between God and myself. God was trying to get my attention since I was a child. I had no idea until I became truly born again. Looking back there were many signs of Him around my life - and He wanted in my life.

I hope by these examples and my testimony will help you build a relationship with God - and believe me - this is the hardest relationship I have ever been in! Not being able to see the person you are with is a struggle for me. I've had to learn to see with the new eyes I've been given.

I pray you are well and continue the good fight!
Swan

AlexDTX · Oct 12, 2019

Oldmantook said:
Sin can and does separate us from God.

I will not try to convince you because it is clear that you are convinced of your position already. Therefore, I will merely state my understanding.

Sin, not sins, separated us from God because we are sin. When Adam fell, the entire creation became sin. In physics it is called entropy. Everything is in a state of decay. Before the fall the creation was perfect with no decay. God so loved the world also means his creation, not just mankind, but mankind was the key to restoration of the creation. Jesus, who knew no sin became sin on the cross when his divinity departed from him. In Christ Jesus nothing separates us from the love of God. The psalmist asked, Where could he go without the presence of God being there? Even in the depths of Hell, He is there.

I had a mid life crisis 20 years ago and became addicted to inappropriate content. While indulging in this destructive behavior the presence of God never left me and God continued to guide me out of my addiction. It is a religious lie to tell born again believers that sin separates us from God. He said he would never leave us nor forsake us.

That being said, sin is stupid thing to do because it still brings damaging consequences, even to followers of Christ, and God does not remove the consequences. In his mercy he may mitigate the consequences, but you still suffer from sin.

Oldmantook said:
No assurance of forgiveness is to be had for sins in the present or the future as those sins still require repentance. One cannot repent of sin not yet committed.

This smacks of a works mentality and blesses Satan. The work of the cross is once and for all. Forgiveness is not earned by your confession and repentance, it is in the work of the cross only. Yet we do confess and repent, not to appease God, but to heal ourselves of our folly.

The young woman who started this thread was in despair because of teachings like yours. What we say should be edifying, not condemning. Such doctrines as what you stated are doctrines of condemnation. There is therefore no condemnation for those in Christ.

marineimaging · Oct 12, 2019

theoneandonlypencil said:
Hi there everyone!

I just made my account to this forum, specifically, so I could get this off of my chest. I tend to ramble and have a hard time condensing my points, so please bear with me if this comes out too long.

Let me preface by saying that the past 2 or 3 years, I consider myself to have been a very 'lukewarm' Christian. Yes, I preached the Gospel and I was passionate about God when I did, but I was not always thinking about God and I fell into some bad habits. I swore, was surrounded with unbelievers, became very petty and argumentative at times, hated other people sometimes too, and engaged in some very...question online sexual behavior with someone I dated long distance for several years.

This past year was hard. I broke up with my ex to be with my best friend(someone I've had more unconditional and pure love for more than anyone I've met to date), several of my friends either left or betrayed me, and I was going in and out of depression. I hit rock bottom, and once I did, I realized how much I'd been neglecting my faith and how bad that had been for me. Up until that point, I thought I had been saved and that I could just say a quick prayer each night, evangelize here and there, avoid breaking the ten commandments and I would be peachy-keen.

After I realized all of this, I started spending hours every day reading different parts of scripture and reading debates about theology and morality, listening to sermon after sermon by all kinds of pastors from different denominations, learning about the denominations themselves, and overall trying to better myself as a Christian. Sure, it was hard sometimes. I'd hit a wall or point of uncertainty and think 'heck, it'd be so much easier to just give up on all of this' but you know? Being an atheist and believing in 'whatever goes, goes' would be 100 times scarier and more stressful than anything I could face as a Christian. I love God and I refused to give up, and each time even when I got to the point where I'd contemplate the unthinkable, I'd come out of it feeling better and stronger than ever.

I think I've matured more spiritually in the last month that I have in my entire life, and I've been sharing my knowledge with everyone I know. I thank God all of the time for the wonderful people in my life, for pulling me through the hard times, and for all of the gifts and talents he's given me(art, music, writing and programming to name a few). Heck, my current boyfriend was atheist before we started dating, and even he's become very dedicated to Christ and wanting to grow spiritually. On top of all that,I also have started looking for churches in my area and plan on getting baptized a second time(I was baptized as a baby, but I really want to have the memory/experience of it now so I can have it as long as I live as a testimony to my love of Christ)

Now then, that sounds all great right? Well, it would be, except if that's all I had to say, the title of this post would be very different.

Here's the problem; no matter how far I believe I've come as a Christian, I still feel like I'll end up in hell and it's making me spiritually exhausted. In particular, I've been wrestling with the fear of whether or not listening to secular media or watching TV is a sin. Because if it is indeed a sin, and I don't repent--I'll go to hell, yes? I mean I don't consider anything I watch or listen to to be that bad. I have a high tolerance for swearing and (sometimes?)violence but no nudity or sex scenes at all when it comes to movies(I really enjoy anime for example); and when it comes to music, so long as it's not talking about sex(I'm pretty 'eh' if it's only implied to an extent)and it's not encouraging debauchery or anything satanic, I consider it to be okay.

None of those things tempt me to sin, and to be quite honest even after reading scripture I've never felt as though I was being 'convicted' of anything by just seeing or hearing stuff like that. Like when it comes to movies, I have no problem if a character has an alcohol addiction/is promiscuous so long as it's present as the character's 'vice' and it's not glorifying that kind of behavior. The only time I've felt doubtful is when I read devout Christians talking about how 'even seeing or hearing something that God hates is a sin' and that all secular media is mindless garbage(which, granted, a lot of it is; but I don't consider what I enjoy to be in that group). I always try to look for the good in what I watch and listen to, or just take it in as an expression of how flawed humanity is.

I've already read most of the major scripture addressing these things(The psalm about 'setting no wicked thing before my eyes', the philippians litmus test, etc)and even if I try to apply those scriptures, for me personally I just didn't feel convicted outside of other people's opinions. It doesn't help that I've been enjoying a lot of Paul Washer's sermons, and while I agree with 99% of what he preaches, he REALLY seems like he would not approve of my taste in music or movies.

I guess I feel like if I don't match the holiness of the other people who believe these things, I'll lose my salvation or will be considered 'lukewarm'. I could give up any of these things, but I want to make sure it's because of GOD--not other people's opinions--if I can help it, since I really value having a, albeit reasonable, sense of Christian liberty. Even when people say 'it's okay, you won't go to hell' or 'it's fine to watch/listen to those things' part of me is also like what if they're wrong though? I understand we live in a day and culture where people do not respect God's word as they should, and like Paul Washer talks about there are lots more 'lukewarm' Christians than most of us probably believe.

Any advice would be appreciated. I'm really just sick over this because I truly want to be as good as I can while still enjoying a little bit of this life and I AM TERRIFIED of going to hell...and I know full well that God can and will send me there unless I act correctly.

Advice: It is NOT what we do for our salvation. It is what JESUS did that secured it once and for all. If you think your salvation can only be won by your deeds you can be assured that you will never be good enough, strong enough, satisfied enough, or righteous enough to save yourself. If you must measure your salvation by your own works then start spending your time helping others. A soup kitchen or helping some kid with their homework in the name of Jesus. Go to church to hear the Word of God, not to socialize. Give your tithe faithfully (10% of what you PROFIT). Focus on loving those around you, not on being loved. It won't save you but if you are busy helping others you will spend less time worrying about something you were never good enough to fix. Furthermore, you will not be able to stop evil in your life. It will always be there. And knowing that is why it was our sovereign God who defined the way and it was Jesus who did all that could be done for you to be saved. It was HE, not you who put your sins on His shoulders and took them to be absolved for eternity. You could never have been good enough to carry your own sins, much less somebody elses. Ever.

I'm spiritually burned out and feel like I'll end up in hell no matter what.

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