Did the apostle Paul (Saul) have a Homosexual orientation?

Christ is Lord said:

I made it clear I can see how one can make that speculation.

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Some speculations are sinful. Most are in fact sinful. Such speculation as posted is not from the Father in heaven. Nor is it in line with any of His Word.

Christ is Lord said:

You don’t know what Paul’s thorn was an neither do I. Therefore you can’t all my speculation false and I can’t call yours false either.

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Was it not clear? I asked "WHERE" is it stated in Scripture, BECAUSE IT IS STATED IN SCRIPTURE.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

This is the kind of statement that has no support nor purpose apparently, except to try to get someone else to sin or to condone sin.

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How does the speculation that Paul might have struggled with homosexuality condone sin? If I make it to heaven and that was the case in my opinion that would humanize the Apostles even more. They are human just like us they weren’t prefect. We get this idea in our head that these weren’t Christians like you and I saved by the finished work of Christ death and resurrection.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Some speculations are sinful. Most are in fact sinful. Such speculation as posted is not from the Father in heaven. Nor is it in line with any of His Word.

Was it not clear? I asked "WHERE" is it stated in Scripture, BECAUSE IT IS STATED IN SCRIPTURE.

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Okay then. Tell me what was the thorn in his flesh? Don’t you realize that you can’t tell me it can’t be x,y,z because you don’t know what it is? If you don’t know what it was how can you know what it wasn’t?

yeshuaslavejeff said:

This is the kind of statement that has no support nor purpose apparently, except to try to get someone else to sin or to condone sin.

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A struggle with sin doesn’t mean a person is leading a sinful life. Making a practice of sin is different than a struggle. A struggle implies the person is actively working to do better they may fall down sometimes but they get back up. Now in regards to my statement that it is certainly within the realm of possibility that Paul struggled with homosexual tendencies that doesn’t make him unfit to be an Apostle assuming that that is true. (Again we can’t be sure). Homosexual tendencies is not the same thing as committing homosexual actions I choose my words very carefully.

Christ is Lord said:

A struggle with sin doesn’t mean a person is leading a sinful life.

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Suggesting sin though, in someone in whom the opposite (i.e. righteousness) is EXPECTED and explained throughout Scripture , may be sinful.
Especially suggesting sinful inclinations if used as an attempt to excuse sinful inclinations.

Christ is Lord said:

Okay then. Tell me what was the thorn in his flesh? Don’t you realize that you can’t tell me it can’t be x,y,z because you don’t know what it is? If you don’t know what it was how can you know what it wasn’t?

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WHY should I tell you ? The same verse and next verse in the Bible where the thorn is mentioned TELLS WHAT IT IS.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Suggesting sin though, in someone in whom the opposite (i.e. righteousness) is EXPECTED and explained throughout Scripture , may be sinful.
Especially suggesting sinful inclinations if used as an attempt to excuse sinful inclinations.

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I made no such attempt to make it seem like homosexuality isn’t sin. “By no means” Also, righteousness doesn’t mean perfect.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

WHY should I tell you ? The same verse and next verse in the Bible where the thorn is mentioned TELLS WHAT IT IS.

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Paul does not specify the nature of his "thorn”. Hence, why people speculate about what it actually was.

Mark45 said:

Did the apostle Paul have a Homosexual orientation? Was it considered the thorn in his flesh (Paul’s homosexual feelings of desire) ? If so would it make any difference to the way we see Paul the apostle and understand his life and the scripture? Could this be a deeper way we can relate to other homosexuals as brothers in Christ, Elders in the Church etc ?

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The idea that the thorn in the flesh was homosexuality is not even mentioned in the text.

The apostle Paul identified the thorn in the flesh when he said
2 Cor.12:6-7 Even if I wanted to boast, I would not be a fool, because I would be speaking the truth. But I refrain, so no one will credit me with more than he sees in me or hears from me, or with these surpassingly great revelations. So to keep me from becoming exalted, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me."

The great revelations through the word of God. Jesus said that the sower sows the word and satan comes immediately to take away the word that was sown.

Satan uses adversities, affliction and persecution, etc.

Jesus in Mrk.4:18-19 specifically called thorns cares and worries.
Mrk.4:7 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit.

The apostle Paul wrote in 2 Cor.11:28 Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.

SkyWriting said:

Well, obviously 10's of millions of singles ignore Paul and get married.
Even my parents did as a great example. Tanks for the sucky advice Paul.

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Paul had a context for his advice. "In view of the present distress. (1 Corinthians 7:26) It would be nice if people read all of what Paul had to say about marriage and family before jumping all over him.

SkyWriting said:

Sounds like an experienced opinion.

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What, mine or Paul's? I have an interest in this subject. A good friend and brother was homosexual before he was saved. He married and had two children. He attended Portland Bible College. He had amazing talents and abilities. He backslid and went back to his old lifestyle. He contracted HIV and therefore AIDS. The medications were not as good in those days (mid 1990's)and he died of an infection. Homosexuality is sin and sin has consequences. Some sin has greater consequences than other sin - in this life. God hates sin because it offends His holy nature. He also hates sin because of what it does to people. Unbelievers think that sin is good and that God is a spoilsport. It is the opposite.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

What the thorn in the flesh was, where is that stated in Scripture ?

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It simply says that it was a "messenger from Satan" Many scholars believe that it was a problem with Paul's eyes. (Galatians 4:15 by implication) Others believe that it was his rejection by his own people, the Jews.

CharismaticLady said:

Paul had been a Pharisee and they are married, so, no.

Paul's thorn in the flesh were false teachers and Judaizers trying to undermine the gospel. "Thorn in the flesh" is a Hebrew idiom like our "pain in the neck." It wasn't physical pain, but people. See Judges 2:3 " 3 Therefore I also said, ‘I will not drive them out before you; but they shall be thorns in your side, and their gods shall be a snare to you.’ ”

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And that pesky Alex the Coppersmith. I'm guessing he was the kind of snake who put light for dark on a regular basis. If he was around today he'd be an enthusiastic damnationist and mainstream theoretical science proponent.

Shrewd Manager said:

And that pesky Alex the Coppersmith. I'm guessing he was the kind of snake who put light for dark on a regular basis. If he was around today he'd be an enthusiastic damnationist and mainstream theoretical science proponent.

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Are you speaking of him as a thorn in the flesh? I really don't know where you are going with this.

CharismaticLady said:

Are you speaking of him as a thorn in the flesh? I really don't know where you are going with this.

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Alexander the coppersmith did me great harm; the Lord will repay him according to his deeds. Beware of him yourself, for he strongly opposed our message. (2 Tim 4:14-15)

Sounds like a pretty thorny character who rejected the gospel and riled Paul. I suggested a similarity, as Paul also instructs Timothy "O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:" in 1 Tim 6:20. So clearly Paul was irritated by gnostics and such who set up in opposition to the truth.

Shrewd Manager said:

Alexander the coppersmith did me great harm; the Lord will repay him according to his deeds. Beware of him yourself, for he strongly opposed our message. (2 Tim 4:14-15)

Sounds like a pretty thorny character who rejected the gospel and riled Paul. I suggested a similarity, as Paul also instructs Timothy "O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:" in 1 Tim 6:20. So clearly Paul was irritated by gnostics and such who set up in opposition to the truth.

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Oh, I didn't recognize the name. I see what you mean now.

First time I came upon the view Paul was homosexual.
God's word is very explicit about homosexuals.

CharismaticLady said:

Paul had been a Pharisee and they are married, so, no.

Paul's thorn in the flesh were false teachers and Judaizers trying to undermine the gospel. "Thorn in the flesh" is a Hebrew idiom like our "pain in the neck." It wasn't physical pain, but people. See Judges 2:3 " 3 Therefore I also said, ‘I will not drive them out before you; but they shall be thorns in your side, and their gods shall be a snare to you.’ ”

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MMM---more likely--his thorn in the flesh was related to his eye sight. After the scales were removed, he eyesight might have not come back as clear as it had been. It is hard to believe that Paul would have earnestly prayed for any sin to be removed from his life and God would have refused his request.

Gal 6:11 Ye see how large a letter I have written unto you with mine own hand.

It us argued that he means in Gal that it is was a long letter he wrote. However, Galatians is not that long---Romans was much longer. His not so clear eyesight would have been a constant reminder and humbling to him of his blindness and the reason for it.

mmksparbud said:

It is hard to believe that Paul would have earnestly prayed for any sin to be removed from his life and God would have refused his request.

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Sin? I never said that. It was sinful people who were perverting the gospel that were hampering his ministry that he wanted removed. It had nothing to do with his eyes. These people were demon possessed, "messengers of Satan."

As for his eyesight, we all get old. Our nature is born again, but our body won't be until it takes on immortality.

Aussie Pete said:

It simply says that it was a "messenger from Satan" Many scholars believe that it was a problem with Paul's eyes. (Galatians 4:15 by implication) Others believe that it was his rejection by his own people, the Jews.

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So then, it is written as you posted, simple truth;
yet people then tried to find or make up other things instead ?

No need to add to Yahuweh's Word, and to do so adds the plagues as He Says.