Is God able to perfectly match us with the right spouse? Why or why not?

PeterJames0510

Blessed more than I deserve
Jan 28, 2019
512
308
47
Lee
✟65,818.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
You call it "speculation." You do not know how to think with the thought yet.

Its not speculation. Not everything in Scripture has been spelled out in black and white. Younger believers need God to take their minds by their hand to cross the street. As we mature He wants us to think in a manner where we can become autonomous spiritually.

"And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more
in knowledge and depth of insight."
Pilipns 1:9​

Its not speculation.

Its a treasure chest that has been uncovered. The Devil comes to rob and steal.

Where the Bible is clear, we should be clear. Where the Bible is silent, we should be silent. As we grow more and more in the Christian walk, one of the ways we know we are growing is when we place ourselves under God's word solely and do not speak outside of the text we have been given. Commentators can speak, books can speak, opinions may flow, and it makes an awful good time of discussion of joining the 'Inklings' for the Thursday night round table meeting at Oxford or Magdalene college.

But if it takes many books and ideas beyond the Bible to come to a conclusion ... I believe that makes the conclusion immediately suspect. It has nothing to do with what level of growth a Christian has on our supposed 'measuring' stick [as if we would actually know or be able to measure the depth of someone else's spirituality], nor how close we are to God. God does reveal the deeper things to us ... of His word, not non-canonical ideas.
 
Upvote 0

PeterJames0510

Blessed more than I deserve
Jan 28, 2019
512
308
47
Lee
✟65,818.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
genez,

I don’t believe in the concept of a beshert or soul mate. Nor has the Holy Spirit ever told me there’s one person in particular I’m meant to walk beside.

God had directed me towards intentional connections. If we felt a mutual attraction we’d prayerfully seek the Lord’s input as a pair.

Our decision to walk hand-in-hand wouldn’t hinge on supposition, mystical ideals, or wishful thinking. It would be the result of observing spiritual maturity, character, purpose, and godly submission in one another.

His blessing would be the holy stamp. But it doesn’t eliminate my responsibility in choosing a godly companion and offering the same.

~Bella

Amen. In fact, when you think of Jewish culture - the probability is that Mary and Joseph were engaged to one another through the wishes of their family. The text does not say they mutually entered such a relationship.

*Not* that arranged marriages are for today; rather to emphasize the fact that Christ's love in us can have us love *anyone*, even if we were to find ourselves not sure if this is the right spouse for me, walking ever so carefully to make sure we're picking the 'right' person, or realizing later on we may have made a mistake.

Sure, advanced warning signs of failure or potential are important to observe. But no system is perfect and if we find ourselves in an unexpected marriage with another believer - Christ's love can overcome all obstacles. :)
 
Upvote 0

GenemZ

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2004
22,141
1,372
73
Atlanta
✟77,042.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Where the Bible is clear, we should be clear. Where the Bible is silent, we should be silent.

My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united
in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete
understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God,
namely, Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom
and knowledge."
Col 2:2-3​

Treasures of knowledge are HIDDEN! In the Word of God! Treasures to be dug up with the hard work of dedicated study! But, by grace? Hard work done in love never seems that way!

Peter warned about Paul being hard and difficult to understand in some of the things he wrote in his epistles. What you just said about God's Word contradicts Peter's words. 2 Peter 3:15-16

The Bible has content for whatever level we are functioning on at that time. Its got something for every believer's maturity level. I can sympathize with your position. But, what needs to be said, is not to be held back by those not ready for it. Those who can not grasp what is said, should learn to put it in the Lord's hands and keep moving at the pace they find themselves with for now.

In other words? If I am wrong? What I said should motivate you to keep on learning more and more knowledge of God's Word so you can refute it soundly with doctrine. Not with simply how you feel about the matter. Our feelings mean nothing when confronting the truths hidden in the Word of God. Truths meant to be dug out and brought out at the right time for our deliverance.

In whom are hidden treasures is the Word of God! (John 1:1)

You can keep fighting it if you want..

grace and peace....
 
  • Agree
Reactions: ~Zao~
Upvote 0

PeterJames0510

Blessed more than I deserve
Jan 28, 2019
512
308
47
Lee
✟65,818.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united
in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete
understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God,
namely, Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom
and knowledge."
Col 2:2-3​

Treasures of knowledge are HIDDEN! In the Word of God! Treasures to be dug up with the hard work of dedicated study! But, by grace? Hard work done in love never seems that way!

Peter warned about Paul being hard and difficult to understand in some of the things he wrote in his epistles. What you just said about God's Word contradicts Peter's words. 2 Peter 3:15-16

The Bible has content for whatever level we are functioning on at that time. Its got something for every believer's maturity level. I can sympathize with your position. But, what needs to be said, is not to be held back by those not ready for it. Those who can not grasp what is said, should learn to put it in the Lord's hands and keep moving at the pace they find themselves with for now.

In other words? If I am wrong? What I said should motivate you to keep on learning more and more knowledge of God's Word so you can refute it soundly with doctrine. Not with simply how you feel about the matter. Our feelings mean nothing when confronting the truths hidden in the Word of God. Truths meant to be dug out and brought out at the right time for our deliverance.

In whom are hidden treasures is the Word of God! (John 1:1)

You can keep fighting it if you want..

grace and peace....

I absolutely agree with you; at no time in our discussion have I been upset emotionally. I'm stating facts. I don't disagree with God, there are tons of treasures that are 'hidden' in God's word. But that's the point - hidden **in God's word**.

The whole idea that there were going to be female angels, there is sexuality in the angelic world (other than the fact they want to use our fallen nature against us), or that there was some angel-human connection in Genesis does not arise out of the text.

What is meant by deep treasures? For instance, if you would read an epistle once a day for 30 days straight - you will begin to see connections you did not see on Day 1. You will see themes, thoughts, ideas, connections, etc. I agree with all that and have experienced that many times.

But the important part is that no where in God's word, it is not hinted at all that there could have been, should have been, would have been.

Again, I object to the notion that Christian's different levels of maturity are levels that are necessarily easily discerned. After all, the world says the first gets the best ... the kingdom of God says the last will be first. Humans have no business making spiritual measurements *other than* what the word of God instructs us to do (ie, Pastors, Deacons, ourselves, etc.)
 
Upvote 0

GenemZ

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2004
22,141
1,372
73
Atlanta
✟77,042.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
- Christ's love can overcome all obstacles. :)

Love is empty without the needed knowledge of God's word to make it abound.


And this is my prayer: that your love may abound
more and more in knowledge and depth of insight." Pilpns 1:9​

The Love for God's Word is the foundation for all genuine and true love in God's grace.

All else is mere human good driven intentions, and human emotional sincerity.

The power to sustain true love must come from the Holy Spirit! Not from wishful thinking and good intentions. Even Muslims who do not know God have the sincere emotions to blow themselves up in the name of having love for their god... Its not love. We must learn the difference.

Grace and truth....
 
Upvote 0

GenemZ

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2004
22,141
1,372
73
Atlanta
✟77,042.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
The whole idea that there were going to be female angels, there is sexuality in the angelic world (other than the fact they want to use our fallen nature against us), or that there was some angel-human connection in Genesis does not arise out of the text.

You will not find it in the text. You must look at the full council of all of God's Word. Comparing Scripture with Scripture! That? Takes knowledge. Lots of good sound doctrinal teaching. Then, you can begin to correlate and form doctrinal rationales to solve problems.

Now... If Adam?

While he was in the state of being.. "its not good that man be alone." And, keep in mind it must have taken many years to observe and name all the animals in this creation.. While he was doing his assigned work and waiting, and felt a certain something was missing in his life? Had listened to a temptation, and followed through? And eaten from the tree of knowledge of good and evil?

Not only that? Adam after eating he then refused to admit any wrong doing, and blamed it on God somehow for his rebellion?

At that point? Would God have given Adam the deep blessing of giving him his woman? No. Adam would have never known what he was missing.

That is what happened when angels rejected God and refused to repent. We can deduct that because as we read in Genesis six, they were designed to sexually reproduce! Since Satan and his angels in their arrogance against God refused to repent.. God then called off the plan for the deep blessings he designed them for.

They had no idea what it was God denied them until later when God created man in His image... and BEAUTIFUL women were being born to men. Gorgeous women.Women that were beautiful in the sight of angels!

Read Genesis 6. The rest is history.

grace and peace
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Upvote 0

PeterJames0510

Blessed more than I deserve
Jan 28, 2019
512
308
47
Lee
✟65,818.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
You will not find it in the text. You must look at the full council of all of God's Word. Comparing Scripture with Scripture! That? Takes knowledge. Lots of good sound doctrinal teaching. Then, you can begin to correlate and form doctrinal rationales to solve problems.

Now... If Adam?

While he was in the state of being.. "its not good that man be alone." And, keep in mind it must have taken many years to observe and name all the animals in this creation.. While he was doing his assigned work and waiting, and felt a certain something was missing in his life? Had listened to a temptation, and followed through? And eaten from the tree of knowledge of good and evil?

Not only that? Adam after eating he then refused to admit any wrong doing, and blamed it on God somehow for his rebellion?

At that point? Would God have given Adam the deep blessing of giving him his woman? No. Adam would have never known what he was missing.

That is what happened when angels rejected God and refused to repent. We can deduct that because as we read in Genesis six, they were designed to sexually reproduce! Since Satan and his angels in their arrogance against God refused to repent.. God then called off the plan for the deep blessings he designed them for.

They had no idea what it was God denied them until later when God created man in His image... and BEAUTIFUL women were being born to men. Gorgeous women.Women that were beautiful in the sight of angels!

Read Genesis 6. The rest is history.

grace and peace


"You will not find it in the text."

That is where the fatal flaw is; if you do not find it in the text, then you should stop there OR make it clear when you tell others your theory that it is actually NOT in God's word and it is your theory. I begrudge no person their individual theories and I have my own personal theories. But that is what they are, theories.

Now, on a slightly related portion - yes - there is something called 'inferences'. I understand that sometimes we look at more than one portion of the scripture and we may make 'inferences'. Those we must be very careful about that too.

I have developed a rule when it comes to 'inferences' in God's word. This is my rule:

* If we see one clear text in scripture, and then some minor texts that are not so clear but are 'inferred' - I believe it is Truth.
* If there are *no* clear texts in scripture but it's a bunch of inferences from a bunch of obscure texts ... best to leave it alone and say 'we don't know' then to be held accountable on the day of judgment for claiming it said something that it does not really say.

So for instance: Sons of God. Occurring 11 times in the Bible, it only once directly refers to angels in Job. Let's say to be honest about it if it appears once in Job as angels, then all references to sons of God in Job should refer to angels. This would now make it 3 times it occurs in Job, 1 time in Genesis. 6 times in the New Testament and of the 6 times, it's clear it's godly humans. [I prefer KJV, so I'm using the KJV text.]

So here, the biblical witness as a hole is that sons of God refers to mortal human beings.

CONTEXT is another key to understanding a passage. It is very interesting that leading up to Genesis 6 (Genesis 5) is a discussion of Seth and his line and of other descendants and their line. Then it is very interesting we immediately in chapter 6 go into a discussion of the union between sons of God and daughters of men. I suggest that is deliberate, to further show we're talking human beings in Genesis 5 and nothing more.

As far as God revealing hidden things - absolutely, things that come directly from the text. Remember, we're not gnostics (or at least I'm not gnostic) and I don't believe I am going to be getting special information from God that other people do not have privy to as gnostics believed.

On the other stuff - we must go with what we have and not ask any further questions that leads to speculation. God made the world in 6 literal days. God created man. Man was given the task to the name the animals, but amongst the animals was no help meet found for man. He was in a garden. He could have eaten from the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and/or the Tree of Life, but God forbade him the knowledge of good and evil tree (yet he had free will to make a choice). God created a help meet for him.

That's as far as the text goes; the text does not add strings or connection points between what God would have done should have Adam did differently or what angels liked or didn't like or what kind of gift God would have given angels. And I'll go so far as to say this: PERHAPS YOU MIGHT BE RIGHT! But until God tells us that in eternity future, it is simply not laid out for us like that in the Bible directly (which you admitted). It is very shaky ground to take obscure passages and try to connect them if there is no direct witness attesting to the truth of a specific matter.
 
Upvote 0

GenemZ

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2004
22,141
1,372
73
Atlanta
✟77,042.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
"You will not find it in the text."

That is where the fatal flaw is; if you do not find it in the text, then you should stop there OR make it clear when you tell others your theory that it is actually NOT in God's word and it is your theory. I begrudge no person their individual theories and I have my own personal theories. But that is what they are, theories.
If everything was as obvious as you wish it were? We would have no denominations, and every believer would find and do God's perfect will.
 
Upvote 0

GenemZ

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2004
22,141
1,372
73
Atlanta
✟77,042.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
"You will not find it in the text."

That is where the fatal flaw is; if you do not find it in the text, then you should stop there OR make it clear when you tell others your theory that it is actually NOT in God's word and it is your theory. I begrudge no person their individual theories and I have my own personal theories. But that is what they are, theories.

When I was a boy I used to love building model cars, boats, and planes.

The models could not be put together with one step only found in the instructions. If I followed only step #1? I did not sit there and say to myself... "How does one get an airplane out of that?" And, then walk away..
That is what you have been doing with your text isolation ploy. The text is only a step in its construction.

What I have shown requires study and a desire to learn more than you now know. For it needs that a good number of passages be understood and combined. Not by just one verse (as you asserted and demand) for giving an entire picture.

It would be much better (for all of us) than closing your mind, to ask questions as to what you do not yet understand. Instead. You just close your mind. And, make your own rules. Possibly, you do not want the responsibility that comes with better understanding the enemy.
 
Upvote 0

GenemZ

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2004
22,141
1,372
73
Atlanta
✟77,042.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
As far as God revealing hidden things - absolutely, things that come directly from the text. Remember, we're not gnostics (or at least I'm not gnostic) and I don't believe I am going to be getting special information from God that other people do not have privy to as gnostics believed.

‘Call to me and I will answer you and tell you
great and unsearchable things you do not know.’
Jer 33:3

Unsearchable is the key word. It must be given by grace, or one would not know what is there.

Not Gnosticism. ..
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

PeterJames0510

Blessed more than I deserve
Jan 28, 2019
512
308
47
Lee
✟65,818.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
When I was a boy I used to love building model cars, boats, and planes.

The models could not be put together with one step only found in the instructions. If I followed only step #1? I did not sit there and say to myself... "How does one get an airplane out of that?" And, then walk away..
That is what you have been doing with your text isolation ploy. The text is only a step in its construction.

What I have shown requires study and a desire to learn more than you now know. For it needs that a good number of passages be understood and combined. Not by just one verse (as you asserted and demand) for giving an entire picture.

It would be much better (for all of us) than closing your mind, to ask questions as to what you do not yet understand. Instead. You just close your mind. And, make your own rules. Possibly, you do not want the responsibility that comes with better understanding the enemy.

Your analogy falls apart because in the instructions itself, you are told what the airplane is going to look like. We are not told about possible female angels in the Bible, therefore we need not put together verses that do not go together to design our own inventions. And in fact, I have not done 'text isolation' ploy; I admitted to you that there are 11 verses in the Bible that use the term 'son of God' and I explained to you already why the balance and weight of witnesses is on the side of the godly line of Seth. I also looked at the whole picture by referring you to context, such as Genesis 5, to show why and how we come upon Genesis 6.

What you have shown is great speculative work, and in fact if we were to look closer into theology - there is a whole realm of theology called 'speculative theology'. In fact, that is a **real** thing. But it must remain categorized as 'speculative' theology because as you stated, it is not said plainly in Scriptures.

And actually, no. I don't make my own rules. I believe there is an argument to be made that the Bible should be interpreted with important rules. We don't get to put our spin on the message of the text, nor do we get to invent rules to our liking. Context is an important rule; historical understanding is another because the ancient near east has its own customs and understandings (which don't override God, but simply show us that the Bible was not written in a vacuum.) There is a principal called the historical-grammatical principal of interpretation. Again, if there is not a clear passage, then obscure ones cannot be used to build doctrine. If obscure ones could be used to build doctrines, then they would not be obscure. If you can read a passage plainly and come to plain conclusions, that is how you know you have a clear passage.

The enemy is a deceiver; that is his biggest ploy. And one of the ways he will deceive us is to try to convince us he is more powerful than what he really is. He also lies and is the father of lies. Martin Luther says that though his power is great, we tremble not for him - for one little word will 'fell' him.

We ought not to give him power; Neil Anderson has a great series of studies called Freedom in Christ ministries. We are taught to reject falsehood (anything outside of God's word) and accept God's truth (the Bible). We go through the Freedom of Steps in Christ to clear away these cobwebs that are holding us back in Christ. We renounce the devil and his ways, but it is more important to identify his falsehoods and identify the things we believe that are *wrong*, and fill it with things that are *right*. That is the strategy of the Bible; the strategy is not to speculate on Satan and his ways whose ultimate doom is the Lake of Fire. Remember that even the angel Michael did not dispute with Satan, but simply turned Satan over to God and said 'the Lord rebuke thee'.

"Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee." - Jude 9

So no. We absolutely do not need to open our minds so wide that our brains fall out; we must open our minds to the truths laid out in God's word. In the analogy of the airplane, you know in advance you have the pieces and it must be put together *correctly* to form the airplane. That is good Bible interpretation; the overall message of the Bible is man is a sinner, Christ is crucified for all sinners (which is all of us), and that believe in Him brings eternal life. Any other message is a side message that supports this bigger message.

Your giving up on step 1 is not what I am doing; I am suggesting to you that female angels and the angelic marital act is not given to us immediately as the final picture for one simple reason: you can't come up with it by simply reading the text.

As far as denominationalism, that is a poor argument for poor exegesis of a Bible passage. Denominationalism is not wrong or evil; I like the fact that there are different denominations. Different denominations do not exist because we disagree on what the Bible says (weird angel theories that it does not say); but rather because of the 'interpretation' of passages. You've not interpreted passages ... you've added to passages things that are not there. And again, I'm sure your a fine brother in the Lord and you love Him with all your heart. But you have come up with things that are not in the Scripture.

Now I understand there are some Bible translations that will use the word angels in Genesis 6. This goes back to the critical text; if you trust Westcott and Hort, then you'll get that type of translation. I trust Byzantine texts solely, so the Bible translations I read don't use the word angel because it's not in the text. But even if we give it to you - even if we say interpretation #3 is possible (which you have a fine line of supporters for your position including John MacArthur) - you still can't get female angels from that or angels that are actually interested in procreation. (And in fact, if we were to accept your belief that they are male angels - why is Johnny Mac's take on it any better or worse than you. He says the reason why ungodly angels procreated with man was not because angels wanted sex, but rather it was to interbreed with man so that when the offspring came - they would be damnable creatures that God could never redeem since they were angel-human hybrids. Again, more rubbish theories - and I was saved under MacArthur's radio ministry. But it doesn't change poor exegesis.)

The Bible is clear that in heaven, we will be like the angels - not given in marriage. This means either one of two things: a) we will not procreate in heaven or b) it's just free love in heaven. So I suppose you can choose, but most people in their hearts know what that means: there is no procreation in heaven because it is no longer necessary and angels do no procreate. Very simple and very straightforward. Exegetical gymnastics unnecessary.

Read Jeremiah 33:3 in context:

33 Moreover the word of the Lord came unto Jeremiah the second time, while he was yet shut up in the court of the prison, saying,
2 Thus saith the Lord the maker thereof, the Lord that formed it, to establish it; the Lord is his name;
3 Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.
4 For thus saith the Lord, the God of Israel, concerning the houses of this city, and concerning the houses of the kings of Judah, which are thrown down by the mounts, and by the sword;
5 They come to fight with the Chaldeans, but it is to fill them with the dead bodies of men, whom I have slain in mine anger and in my fury, and for all whose wickedness I have hid my face from this city.


This is *not* a passage about deeper studies into God's word that will reveal esoteric knowledge that only those who have a special relationship with God will attain. This is about God wanting to show the depth and depravity of Israel's sin to Jeremiah, the prophet. The passage goes on to say God will heal His people. That is the "great and mighty things, which thou knowest not" that God is referring to.
 
Upvote 0

GenemZ

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2004
22,141
1,372
73
Atlanta
✟77,042.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Your analogy falls apart because in the instructions itself, you are told what the airplane is going to look like.

Here I am explaining Biblically the root cause for homosexuality, and you want to keep nit picking for reasons only known to yourself.

You just can't see it.. I understand. That's OK. Especially, because you are unable to disprove what I have said in a concrete way.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Upvote 0

Francis Drake

Returning adventurer.
Apr 14, 2013
4,000
2,508
✟184,952.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
UK-Independence-Party
But no system is perfect and if we find ourselves in an unexpected marriage with another believer - Christ's love can overcome all obstacles. :)
Christ's love was not sufficient to overcome Israel's unfaithfulness.
Christ's love for my Christian wife did not stop her adultery, nor her leaving me.

Certainly, Christ's love moulded my heart, and ultimately brought me another faithful godly wife.
 
Upvote 0

PeterJames0510

Blessed more than I deserve
Jan 28, 2019
512
308
47
Lee
✟65,818.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Christ's love was not sufficient to overcome Israel's unfaithfulness.
Christ's love for my Christian wife did not stop her adultery, nor her leaving me.

Certainly, Christ's love moulded my heart, and ultimately brought me another faithful godly wife.

To be fair, my comments were not directed to those who find themselves abused or cheated on in marriage. Rather, I was responding to the OP which asked about finding the *right* spouse and simply commenting and agreeing with someone else that the 'right' spouse may not really be a concept that exists.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

PeterJames0510

Blessed more than I deserve
Jan 28, 2019
512
308
47
Lee
✟65,818.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Here I am explaining Biblically the root cause for homosexuality, and you want to keep nit picking for reasons only known to yourself.

You just can't see it.. I understand. That's OK. Especially, because you are unable to disprove what I have said in a concrete way.

Your line of argumentation is faulty. You can call it nit-picking if you want, but even if you were correct that I am "unable to disprove what I have said in a concrete way", you still haven't provided facts behind your assertions.

I many not be able to dis-prove that UFOs and space aliens visited our planet at one time; however, the onus would not be on me to disprove the existence of space aliens (even if I was unable to). The onus would be on the one making the assertion that they did exist to prove it.

That is how discussion and friendly debate work. I honestly believe better for you, that you must have concrete examples, concrete facts, concrete reasoning that comes from the Bible for what you believe and you just haven't been able to put it together.

Again, chapter and verse for assertions please.
 
Upvote 0

~Zao~

Wisdom’s child
Site Supporter
Jun 27, 2007
3,060
957
✟100,595.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united
in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete
understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God,
namely, Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom
and knowledge."
Col 2:2-3​

Treasures of knowledge are HIDDEN! In the Word of God! Treasures to be dug up with the hard work of dedicated study! But, by grace? Hard work done in love never seems that way!

Peter warned about Paul being hard and difficult to understand in some of the things he wrote in his epistles. What you just said about God's Word contradicts Peter's words. 2 Peter 3:15-16

The Bible has content for whatever level we are functioning on at that time. Its got something for every believer's maturity level. I can sympathize with your position. But, what needs to be said, is not to be held back by those not ready for it. Those who can not grasp what is said, should learn to put it in the Lord's hands and keep moving at the pace they find themselves with for now.

In other words? If I am wrong? What I said should motivate you to keep on learning more and more knowledge of God's Word so you can refute it soundly with doctrine. Not with simply how you feel about the matter. Our feelings mean nothing when confronting the truths hidden in the Word of God. Truths meant to be dug out and brought out at the right time for our deliverance.

In whom are hidden treasures is the Word of God! (John 1:1)

You can keep fighting it if you want..

grace and peace....
That which is hid may be found (thru grace) but once found one must sell all to obtain legal right to it. (Parables of the hidden treasure and the pearl of great price)
The kingdom of heaven represented by the treasure corresponds to the privilege of becoming a Christian while the pearl of great price is continuing on Christian principals.
Accepting Christianity in gospel terms of salvation, then consequently the promulgation or putting into operation all that employed is the wisdom to be purchased.
Purchased involves dedication, and suffering like that of a new-born learning to walk, and eventual run with ease.
 
Upvote 0

GenemZ

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2004
22,141
1,372
73
Atlanta
✟77,042.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Your line of argumentation is faulty. You can call it nit-picking if you want, but even if you were correct that I am "unable to disprove what I have said in a concrete way", you still haven't provided facts behind your assertions.

In the future as you study more of the Word it may begin to click. Right now you do not have enough knowledge to understand it. I remember in Bible college how sitting in the cafeteria I was sharing something about angels having sex with human woman. One student who was an Army captain, and a friend of mine... told me and everyone else at the table what I said was insane. Giving some of the same rationales as you here tried.

A while later he told me he had to eat crow when he learned more than he had known.

I hope the same for you.
 
Upvote 0

GenemZ

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2004
22,141
1,372
73
Atlanta
✟77,042.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
That which is hid may be found (thru grace) but once found one must sell all to obtain legal right to it. (Parables of the hidden treasure and the pearl of great price)
The kingdom of heaven represented by the treasure corresponds to the privilege of becoming a Christian while the pearl of great price is continuing on Christian principals.
Accepting Christianity in gospel terms of salvation, then consequently the promulgation or putting into operation all that employed is the wisdom to be purchased.
Purchased involves dedication, and suffering like that of a new-born learning to walk, and eventual run with ease.

Did you just say that the hidden treasures in Christ is only about finding salvation?

Or, is that passage about what follows salvation for those who believed?

We are told to continuously grow in grace and knowledge after we are saved. (2 Pet 3:18)

Finding salvation is one treasure,,, its actually a "gift."

But there are many treasures God has provided for those who continue to grow and never stop growing.



My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love,
so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in
order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, in
whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge."
Col 2:2-3​

That speaks of the many treasures awaiting to be discovered and found.

There is so much to know. We are to spend every day learning something you did not know the day before. Continue until your body takes its last breath. Too many settle for locking everything down and then guarding the fort.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

~Zao~

Wisdom’s child
Site Supporter
Jun 27, 2007
3,060
957
✟100,595.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Did you just say that the hidden treasures in Christ is only about finding salvation?

Or, is that passage about what follows salvation for those who believed?

We are told to continuously grow in grace and knowledge after we are saved. (2 Pet 3:18)

Finding salvation is one treasure,,, its actually a "gift."

But there are many treasures God has provided for those who continue to grow and never stop growing.



My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love,
so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in
order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, in
whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge."
Col 2:2-3​

That speaks of the many treasures awaiting to be discovered and found.

There is so much to know. We are to spend every day learning something you did not know the day before. Continue until your body takes its last breath. Too many settle for locking everything down and then guarding the fort.
The initiation of grace in one’s life is salvation. "the hidden treasures in Christ is only about finding salvation? “ isn’t only about finding salvation but is the reference to the kingdom itself, which (according to Pauline interpretation apparently) needs to be legally binding. That comes with purchase (eye salve etc)
John’s epistles forgo the legalities but are still instituted in his typologies as an ongoing presenting of oneself to Him. A beyond the legalities. "Or, is that passage about what follows salvation for those who believed? “ yes

I didn’t read the thread but wanted to comment on this one item of (re)birth and growth that you expressed quite well in the initial post I commented on.
 
Upvote 0