(staff edited)--Common thread for Mueller, Ukraine and Syria: Russia helps Trump, Trump helps Russia

Albion · Oct 11, 2019

zephcom said:
Nothing is ever 'all'. I actually know of at least one Republican who didn't vote for Trump. But polling is showing a significant number of Republicans are willing to say they see Russia as a friend to America.

What you claimed, however, was that "Republicans as a Whole..." -- not 40%

have "Sold America out to Russia," -- not just willing to see Russia as a friend.

:redcard:

zephcom · Oct 11, 2019

dzheremi said:
Well, I'm not a Republican and I don't fear Russians to begin with, but I do see what you mean. It's a change from how it was when I was a kid and the cold war was still going on. But then Russia has changed quite a bit since then, too. Some people say it is backsliding into being a repressive, authoritarian state, but I don't know. That's true of lots of places that we're already allied with that didn't even have to backslide first to be described in those terms (basically all of the Arab Gulf states, a lot of Latin America, Turkey, etc). So it may seem more strange coming from Republicans since they were/are traditionally much harder on Russia (due to fear of "commies", I guess, even though Russia hasn't been communist in decades, and we do just fine business with communist Vietnam now), but there is a certain internal logic to it: Republicans, being more conservative, can tend to favor more authoritarian figures so long as they too are conservative (so Pinochet good or at least tolerable, but Castro bad). This is just like how liberals/left-wing people were once identified with anarchists like Emma Goldman (who famously quipped "If I can't dance, it's not my revolution", or something similar) but today seem to be nervous about allowing people the level of freedom necessary to speak their minds and live as wish if that would violate established leftist 'orthodoxy':

Again, what a bunch of idiots.

Literally the only thing I have learned from paying attention to politics is that everyone is an idiot.

I think it is important to also understand that I am talking about the Russian GOVERNMENT when I talk about Russia. The Russian government IS Vladimir Putin. Putin was a ranking KGB member when Russia collapsed. America was not benevolent when that happened. America took credit for making it happen and called it a major win for America. We claimed the title of the only Superpower left on the planet.

We rubbed their noses in the their defeat. I suspect Putin would like nothing more than to destroy us in the same manner we destroyed them.

There is one more thing which I think Putin is well aware of. If you look at a map of the planet from over the north pole, you will see that Russia will have open shipping lanes to every ocean on the planet once Global Warming has melted the Arctic ice.

The only thing which would even begin to get in their way to becoming a commerce hub is the Being Strait. And if America becomes subjected to Russian domination, our military bases in Alaska will not cause them any harm.

And Trump even pulled us out of the Global Warming pact.

zephcom · Oct 11, 2019

Albion said:
What you claimed, however, was that "Republicans as a Whole..." -- not 40%

have "Sold America out to Russia," -- not just begun to think of Russia as a friend.

Did you see those three squiggly things at the end of the headline??? They were QUESTION MARKS. Question marks mean it was not a claim by me. It was a QUESTION.

[edit] Not understanding a basic concept as the question mark in English might lead people to think you are one of those Russians hired to pretend they are Trump supporters.

Nithavela · Oct 11, 2019

I don't think they are allowed to sell the pieces that belong to China.

zephcom · Oct 11, 2019

Albion said:
"Tax accountant" probably said it all.

<smile> Somebody has to be a tax accountant. But honestly, tax accountants are not the bad people they were in the First Century. They are just specialists in understanding the American tax code.

But I'm good if that is the only poison arrow you have for me.

-Sasha- · Oct 11, 2019

zephcom said:
This article from CNBC indicates that may well be the case:

Common thread for Mueller, Ukraine and Syria: Russia Helps Trump, Trump Helps Russia

The article says this about how Republicans who traditionally considered Russia an enemy are changing their minds:

"To the contrary, Trump-era Republicans have grown friendlier to Russia than Americans overall. From 2014 to 2018, the Gallup Poll found, the share of Republicans viewing Russia as an ally nearly doubled to 40% from 22%."

I truly wonder if Republicans understand how freaking difficult it is to learn the Russian language once we become an occupied nation.

I personally don't see a need to be fearful of people having "friendly feelings" toward Russia.

Albion · Oct 11, 2019

<smile> Somebody has to be a tax accountant. But honestly, tax accountants are not the bad people they were in the First Century. They are just specialists in understanding the American tax code.

But I'm good if that is the only poison arrow you have for me.

No sense of humor AND seems to think everything is about him. :sigh:

Cimorene · Oct 11, 2019

Kentonio · Oct 11, 2019

I could actually have gotten behind a president who took the time to understand Russian geo-political concerns and set out to forge a new friendly position between Russia and America. But that’s very clearly not where Trump is coming from. He’s taking the word of Putin over US intelligence and putting Russian interests ahead of America and the rest of the western world. I could support someone looking for peace, but this isn’t about peace, it’s about self-interest.

zephcom · Oct 11, 2019

Kentonio said:
I could actually have gotten behind a president who took the time to understand Russian geo-political concerns and set out to forge a new friendly position between Russia and America. But that’s very clearly not where Trump is coming from. He’s taking the word of Putin over US intelligence and putting Russian interests ahead of America and the rest of the western world. I could support someone looking for peace, but this isn’t about peace, it’s about self-interest.

In all fairness, America should have never done the happy dance, high-fives and gloating when the Communist government collapsed. It creates hard feelings with those who lost. Hard feelings result in the desire for revenge. And how sweet is the revenge when -they- orchestrate the same internal collapse against us.

And, paying heed to where we are discussing the issue, our response to their collapse was DEFINITELY unChristlike. What was it that Jesus said???? Oh yeah, "One reaps what one sows"

.

miggles · Oct 12, 2019

zephcom said:
This article from CNBC indicates that may well be the case:

Common thread for Mueller, Ukraine and Syria: Russia Helps Trump, Trump Helps Russia

The article says this about how Republicans who traditionally considered Russia an enemy are changing their minds:

"To the contrary, Trump-era Republicans have grown friendlier to Russia than Americans overall. From 2014 to 2018, the Gallup Poll found, the share of Republicans viewing Russia as an ally nearly doubled to 40% from 22%."

I truly wonder if Republicans understand how freaking difficult it is to learn the Russian language once we become an occupied nation.

CNBC, huh? figures.

Allandavid · Oct 12, 2019

miggles said:
CNBC, huh? figures.

And the Gallup poll upon which the article is based...?

Albion · Oct 12, 2019

dzheremi said:
It is a rather surprising jump though, isn't it? It wasn't so long ago that connection to anything Russian was anathema to republicans, and now it seems that a significant segment of them have completely turned around on that issue under President Trump (and to be honest also President G. W. Bush; wasn't he the one who claimed to have seen into Putin's soul or some such?). It's an interesting development.

Since you put this out there as a question and I believe you to be sincere, my reply is this--

Huh? There is no evidence of that. This president has put sanctions on Russia that Obama never did. And you remember hearing and seeing B.O. telling the Russian diplomat that he would be able to cooperate with Vladimir once he had his 2012 re-election safely behind him. The claims about Trump and Putin are almost totally mythical.

What's more, Trump has often angrily denounced the Hillary-DNC-Putin attempt to interfere in our elections (which again Obama didn't care about) and about the Russia Russia Russia hoax and frame-up.

For anyone to say that Trump is in the pocket of Putin is, to me, like insisting that he is a visitor from the planet Zorch. Nonsense on its face.

But what about the idea that ordinary Republicans are warm towards Russia these days? None of them were supportive of Russia invading Crimea or Eastern Europe. None of them is happy or unconcerned about their assisting Iran.

However, since the fall of the Soviet Union, Americans in general have hoped for a more democratic and friendly Russia--Democrats no less than Republicans. What has changed lately is that the Democratic Party talking points have decided to condemn the Administration for allegedly trying to get some cooperation from China and Russia on certain matters of benefit to us.

And this after the same critics had spent a lot of time saying that the USA is too antagonistic towards those dictatorial regimes and applauding Obama when he said he would go anywhere to negotiate with our enemies in the interest of peace--a promise he shelved as soon as he became president.

LoveOurNeighbor · Oct 12, 2019

Has anyone ever wondered if Trump could be a Russian agent?

Trump had no choice but to place sanctions on Russia. If he didn;t Congress would have

Funny how just after Turkey's summit with Russia Trump strikes a deal to turn tail on the Kurds

Kentonio · Oct 12, 2019

Albion said:
Since you put this out there as a question and I believe you to be sincere, my reply is this--

Huh? There is no evidence of that. This president has put sanctions on Russia that Obama never did. And you remember hearing and seeing B.O. telling the Russian diplomat that he would be able to cooperate with Vladimir once he had his 2012 re-election safely behind him. The claims about Trump and Putin are almost totally mythical.

What's more, Trump has often angrily denounced the Hillary-DNC-Putin attempt to interfere in our elections (which again Obama didn't care about) and about the Russia Russia Russia hoax and frame-up.

For anyone to say that Trump is in the pocket of Putin is, to me, like insisting that he is a visitor from the planet Zorch. Nonsense on its face.

But what about the idea that ordinary Republicans are warm towards Russia these days? None of them were supportive of Russia invading Crimea or Eastern Europe. None of them is happy or unconcerned about their assisting Iran.

However, since the fall of the Soviet Union, Americans in general have hoped for a more democratic and friendly Russia--Democrats no less than Republicans. What has changed lately is that the Democratic Party talking points have decided to condemn the Administration for allegedly trying to get some cooperation from China and Russia on certain matters of benefit to us.

And this after the same critics had spent a lot of time saying that the USA is too antagonistic towards those dictatorial regimes and applauding Obama when he said he would go anywhere to negotiate with our enemies in the interest of peace--a promise he shelved as soon as he became president.

Half his own party can’t work out why he’s so obsequious towards Russia. This idea he’s been tough on them is complete nonsense.

(staff edited)--Common thread for Mueller, Ukraine and Syria: Russia helps Trump, Trump helps Russia

Facilitator

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

our world is happy and mundane

Well-Known Member

Handmaid of God

Facilitator

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

miggles

Well-Known Member

Facilitator

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads