(staff edited)--Common thread for Mueller, Ukraine and Syria: Russia helps Trump, Trump helps Russia

I think that we should be careful about suggesting that all Republicans are pro-Russia. This is certainly true of Trump.

The Senate has occasionally taken votes to support sanctions against Russia, sometimes with enough votes to over-ride Trump's actions. I suggest that most Republican senators are as strongly anti-Russian as Senate Democrats.

zephcom said:

This article from CNBC indicates that may well be the case:

Common thread for Mueller, Ukraine and Syria: Russia Helps Trump, Trump Helps Russia

The article says this about how Republicans who traditionally considered Russia an enemy are changing their minds:

"To the contrary, Trump-era Republicans have grown friendlier to Russia than Americans overall. From 2014 to 2018, the Gallup Poll found, the share of Republicans viewing Russia as an ally nearly doubled to 40% from 22%."

I truly wonder if Republicans understand how freaking difficult it is to learn the Russian language once we become an occupied nation.

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zephcom said:

This article from CNBC indicates that may well be the case:

Common thread for Mueller, Ukraine and Syria: Russia Helps Trump, Trump Helps Russia

The article says this about how Republicans who traditionally considered Russia an enemy are changing their minds:

"To the contrary, Trump-era Republicans have grown friendlier to Russia than Americans overall. From 2014 to 2018, the Gallup Poll found, the share of Republicans viewing Russia as an ally nearly doubled to 40% from 22%."

I truly wonder if Republicans understand how freaking difficult it is to learn the Russian language once we become an occupied nation.

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Relax, Comrades. No to worry. Russia is perfect friend to America. Good ally in last Great War against evil Germans. Not like cowardly Kurds running around the desert, crying at a few artillery shells from great Turkey.

Do not listen to scary mongers like Nancy Palooza and Barry Sanders. Listen to truths from RT and National Russia Association.

zephcom said:

This article from CNBC indicates that may well be the case:

Common thread for Mueller, Ukraine and Syria: Russia Helps Trump, Trump Helps Russia

The article says this about how Republicans who traditionally considered Russia an enemy are changing their minds:

"To the contrary, Trump-era Republicans have grown friendlier to Russia than Americans overall. From 2014 to 2018, the Gallup Poll found, the share of Republicans viewing Russia as an ally nearly doubled to 40% from 22%."

I truly wonder if Republicans understand how freaking difficult it is to learn the Russian language once we become an occupied nation.

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I think the consensus is that Donald has sold out to Russia, and the Republicans have sold out to Donald...

...if you follow that logic, which, admittedly, is pretty sound, then yeah, I suppose one could say they have.

There are a probably few hawks like Lindsey Graham that would prefer the Cold War (or an actual conflict) with Russia to continue. Military contracts being pretty lucrative for him. However, as long as Trump will bring a fight to someone else, like Iran or China, he can be appeased.

zephcom said:

I truly wonder if Republicans understand how freaking difficult it is to learn the Russian language once we become an occupied nation.

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Ты ленив. Я узнал и я бесполезен. I really did, too. For six years or so, ending in about 2008. I'm really rusty now, but I've just moved into a coincidentally mixed Russian/Middle Eastern neighborhood. My new doctor is Russian. We'll see. I don't think he's planning to take over America, but it 20 minutes in his waiting room with everyone around you speaking Russian might convince you otherwise if you don't also speak it.

zephcom said:

"To the contrary, Trump-era Republicans have grown friendlier to Russia than Americans overall. From 2014 to 2018, the Gallup Poll found, the share of Republicans viewing Russia as an ally nearly doubled to 40% from 22%."

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Once again we have here a lurid thread title...and then an OP that is much less sensational than that...or what we were led to think this discussion was to be about.

It's a neat trick.

It is a rather surprising jump though, isn't it? It wasn't so long ago that connection to anything Russian was anathema to republicans, and now it seems that a significant segment of them have completely turned around on that issue under President Trump (and to be honest also President G. W. Bush; wasn't he the one who claimed to have seen into Putin's soul or some such?). It's an interesting development.

Trump will make sure that there are lots of military contracts. I don't think that this is an issue.

However, there are two aspects of foreign policy that seems relevant. Russia (and China) have been enemies of the US for many, many years. Republicans have been supporters of a very strong military and a strongly anti-Russian foreign policy.

Secondly, the US has traditionally had a foreign policy that promotes and protects democracies throughout the world, and also those countries who fight with us to do the same. Republicans has strongly supported the Kurds since the no-fly zone was established to protect them in Iraq. Their semi-autonomous region in Iraq is a democracy. Republicans attacked Obama because he didn't do enough to support the Kurds, providing them with old, inferior weapons.

Also, the idea of telling China that we won't strongly oppose its actions in Hong Kong is outrageous.
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In the end, Trump has decided to continue the Obama policy in Syria: pull out and allow the Turks to move in. There have been many calls for a joint buffer zone policed by several countries. Turkey has decided that there is no need to share control.

Turkey considers the Kurds, especially the Syrian Kurds, to be terrorists and they have decided to invade and establish a buffer zone between Syria and Turkey. They will exile lots of its Kurds and refugees either to the region or to Europe. The Kurds have little choice but to move away from the border.

The Kurdish fighters will have to make accommodations with Assad in order to survive. It is indeed in Assad's interest for the Kurds to continue to fight ISIS and to be a buffer against further Turkish occupation of Syria.
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Trump will leave troops in the Middle East, in Qatar, in the UAE, and in Saudi Arabia. This is consistent with US policy throughout the world.
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Unless US troops are fighting in significant numbers by Election Day, I see the withdrawal to be a plus for Trump. Trump is continuing Obama's policy of withdrawal from Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria.

FenderTL5 said:

There are a probably few hawks like Lindsey Graham that would prefer the Cold War (or an actual conflict) with Russia to continue. Military contracts being pretty lucrative for him. However, as long as Trump will bring a fight to someone else, like Iran or China, he can be appeased.

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Well i think both parties were long time taken over by secret societies and Elite. I wouldn't believe in CNBC or any other mainstream media news agency. Cuz they are owned by Leftists and Elite groups. Its so obviouse that its not funny anymore. America since the 60s started moving to Socialism especially todays youth. You can see this article from a book called "Naked Communist" which is written by ex KGB agent who wrote how they are going to take over and completely change American society and this book was releasted in the 60s so its scary when you see how much was acomplised.
45 Communist Goals For The USA In 1963 - How Many Have Come True?

zephcom said:

That was George W. And, yeah, he looked Putin in the eye and saw into his soul. He declared Putin a friend of America.

The Republican propaganda machine is truly efficient. It can turn black into white right in front of you and you won't even notice.

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Well, I'm not a Republican and I don't fear Russians to begin with, but I do see what you mean. It's a change from how it was when I was a kid and the cold war was still going on. But then Russia has changed quite a bit since then, too. Some people say it is backsliding into being a repressive, authoritarian state, but I don't know. That's true of lots of places that we're already allied with that didn't even have to backslide first to be described in those terms (basically all of the Arab Gulf states, a lot of Latin America, Turkey, etc). So it may seem more strange coming from Republicans since they were/are traditionally much harder on Russia (due to fear of "commies", I guess, even though Russia hasn't been communist in decades, and we do just fine business with communist Vietnam now), but there is a certain internal logic to it: Republicans, being more conservative, can tend to favor more authoritarian figures so long as they too are conservative (so Pinochet good or at least tolerable, but Castro bad). This is just like how liberals/left-wing people were once identified with anarchists like Emma Goldman (who famously quipped "If I can't dance, it's not my revolution", or something similar) but today seem to be nervous about allowing people the level of freedom necessary to speak their minds and live as wish if that would violate established leftist 'orthodoxy':


Again, what a bunch of idiots.

Literally the only thing I have learned from paying attention to politics is that everyone is an idiot.

It's just another bogus attack line.

Russia Russia Russia, version #1, having fallen on its face, here we have it again, but slightly reworked. It's no more newsworthy or credible than the claim that all people who vote for Trump are White Supremacists, that Trump is going to destroy the whole world by nuclear weapons, or that he is planning to put all immigrants in prison.

zephcom said:

It is interesting to me that my tax accountant, life long friend and long time Republican told me that everything I needed to know about the world is found at CNBC.

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"Tax accountant" probably said it all.

So, let's clear up the argument a bit.

Trump is indeed pro-Russia, certainly much more pro-Russia than any president since WWII.

Establishment Republican office holders (past and current) are strongly anti-Russia, and support anti-Russian sanctions in veto-proof majorities in the Senate.

Trump's very loyal base will believe whatever Trump says.

Republicans who are not part of Trump's very solid base have varied views regarding Russia. Some are isolationist (making Russia sort of irrelevant), some support the president, some support the Republican senators, and some have other views.

Albion said:

It's just another bogus attack line.

Russia Russia Russia, version #1, having fallen on its face, here we have it again, but slightly reworked. It's no more newsworthy or credible than the claim that all people who vote for Trump are White Supremacists, that Trump is going to destroy the whole world by nuclear weapons, or that he is planning to put all immigrants in prison.

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dzheremi said:

...(and to be honest also President G. W. Bush; wasn't he the one who claimed to have seen into Putin's soul or some such?)....

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I just vomited into my mouth a lot.