My latest chart (number 3)

Douggg

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Because you continue to ignore Revelation 11:18 to make your chart work.

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You say ignore, but it is not me ignoring Revelation 11:18. It is you not understanding the verse, because you refuse to acknowledge the third woe in Revelation 8:13 takes place when the 7th trumpet sounds, and that woe to the inhabiters of the earth lasts the time, times, half time that Satan is cast down to earth knowing he has but a little time left.

I have explained the verse over and over, so for you to say I that ignore the verse is very unfactual. What you really are saying is that I don't agree with your misunderstanding of the verse.

To continue to say "ignore" is essentially a lie.

You need to demonstrate why the 7th trumpet third woe is not Satan cast down to earth for the time, times, half time. Specifically. And demonstrate what the seventh trumpet third woe to the inhabiters of the earth is, if you claim otherwise.
 
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BABerean2

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You say ignore, but it is not me ignoring Revelation 11:18. It is you not understanding the verse, because you refuse to acknowledge the third woe in Revelation 8:13 takes place when the 7th trumpet sounds, and that woe to the inhabiters of the earth lasts the time, times, half time that Satan is cast down to earth knowing he has but a little time left.

I have explained the verse over and over, so for you to say I that ignore the verse is very unfactual. What you really are saying is that I don't agree with your misunderstanding of the verse.

To continue to say "ignore" is essentially a lie.

You need to demonstrate why the 7th trumpet third woe is not Satan cast down to earth for the time, times, half time. Specifically. And demonstrate what the seventh trumpet third woe to the inhabiters of the earth is, if you claim otherwise.


When are you going to put "the time of the judgment of the dead" in Revelation 11:18 on your chart?

Otherwise, you are ignoring the verse.

I would be very careful about using the word "lie" on this forum.


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Douggg

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When are you going to put "the time of the judgment of the dead" in Revelation 11:18 on your chart?

Otherwise, you are ignoring the verse.

I would be very careful about using the word "lie" on this forum.
Stop using the term ignore, when someone disagrees with you on a particular verse when that person has addressed and explained it specifically. In this particular case, over and over.

It is not fair and it is against the forum rules. Address the issue and not the person.

I updated my chart to show Revelation 11:18. It is in blue below.

upload_2019-10-11_11-32-24.jpeg
 
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BABerean2

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Douggg

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Why would "the time of the judgment of the dead" in Revelation 11:18 come after Revelation 12:7-9?

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Because the accuser will be cast down to earth and will no longer be able to accuse anyone any more.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

In heaven, there will be rejoicing, and the time of Jesus judging each person's life of them who are in heaven who have died in him, great and small, will be given rewards for what they have done for the cause of Christ.

While here on earth, Satan will be taking out wrath because he will have only a limited time left.

Revelation 11:18 is not about the judgment of the dead to take place in Revelation 20, the Great White Throne judgment. Revelation 11:18 is about the prophets and saints who will be in heaven at that time. Collectively, they are the bride of Christ, who be returning with Jesus at His Return in Revelation 19.
 
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keras

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Where do you think Jesus is during the great tribulation? Here on earth? Or in heaven?
Psalms 11:4-6 tells us. Actually this refers to the Sixth Seal specifically.
Jesus doesn't Return until after the GT.

What I asked you was to show a Bible verse that proves anyone goes to heaven. If you can't, the you must stop promoting that false theory. Change your silly avatar too.

I do agree with you about Revelation 11:16-18. The Judgment of all the dead happens after the Millennium, the rewards at Jesus Return, so what those 24 Elders say is an announcement of what will happen. BaB is like a cracked record; just leave it.
 
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grafted branch

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I updated my chart to show where Revelation 11:18 takes place. In blue, near the bottom.

View attachment 264825

I have another question about your chart. You have “confirmation of the covenant Daniel 9:27” on day 1 which at least some people at that time, if not most, will know about. The chart also shows “Jesus returns (Matthew 24:30b)” on day 2520. Certainly anyone who is alive at the time and understands your chart will immediately know when Jesus will return by adding 2519 days to the day the covenant was signed.

In Matthew 24:36 it says of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

My question is how do you reconcile this verse with your chart depicting the exact day of Jesus’s return?
 
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Douggg

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I have another question about your chart. You have “confirmation of the covenant Daniel 9:27” on day 1 which at least some people at that time, if not most, will know about. The chart also shows “Jesus returns (Matthew 24:30b)” on day 2520. Certainly anyone who is alive at the time and understands your chart will immediately know when Jesus will return by adding 2519 days to the day the covenant was signed.

In Matthew 24:36 it says of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

My question is how do you reconcile this verse with your chart depicting the exact day of Jesus’s return?
Hi grafted branch, time frames given in the text are based on a 30 day month, 12 months per year, 360 days a year. To compensate for the 365 actual day year, in the Jewish system they add an extra month (called Adar 2) every two or three years.

"A leap year in the Jewish calendar has 13 months and occurs 7 times in a 19-year cycle. In Hebrew, a leap year is referred to as Shanah Me'uberet, or pregnant year."

Okay, that gets into way too much complications to incorporate in any chart or understanding of the flow of events, because for one thing we don't know where during that 19 year cycle, the confirming of the covenant will take place. So we can't place the leap month(s), nor how many leap months in the 7 years.

I don't think it is something we are supposed to take into account - because it keeps anyone from knowing the day nor hour that Jesus returns to earth. (Although I think that expression is actually referring to the timing of the rapture.)
___________________________________________________________________________

In general though, one could take the confirmation of the covenant day (day1) - which will be a worldwide broadcast event - and add 7 years to it to know that Jesus's return will take place then.

Well, why won't people be thinking like that?

Because Jews have been saying for 2000 years that everything in the new testament including Jesus's return is fairy tales. And after Gog/Magog takes place, if the rapture has not happen (although it certainly could have), they are going to say - see? Because the prince who shall come will appear to them, and the world, that he is the real messiah. And it will be very convincing to many in Christianity that the Jews were right all along - and there will be the great falling away from Jesus and Christianity in 2Thessalonians2:3.

I don't know when the rapture will take place. Nor if there is going to be some explanation by them left behind, or the Antichirst and the false prophet what their spin is going to be.

The rapture may take place before the 7 years begin, or it may not. But it has to take place before the ToD act of 2Thessalonians2:4 (I show on my chart) which will trigger the beginning of the Day of the Lord.

It very likely that no one is going to be looking at my chart during the time of the beast, or even aforehand, because imo there is going to be crackdown on free speech in that first part of the 7 years.

Even now, how many people would recognize that a speech given from the temple mount about God giving the land of Israel to the Jews as theirs forever - would recognize it as the confirming of the covenant? The small number percentage-wise of the world's population who do know something about bible prophecy think the confirming the covenant is some sort of peace treaty. So, yes, you would know it, and most people who have taken time to look at my chart would know it - but not most people.
 
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Douggg

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Psalms 11:4-6 tells us. Actually this refers to the Sixth Seal specifically.
Jesus doesn't Return until after the GT.

What I asked you was to show a Bible verse that proves anyone goes to heaven. If you can't, the you must stop promoting that false theory. Change your silly avatar too.
Please go to my post #79 and answer the question.

When the rapture/resurrection of 1Thessalonians4:15-18 takes place:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Where will Jesus be while the great tribulation is taking place here on earth?
 
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keras

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1 Thessalonians 4:16 WHEN.....the Lord Himself descends from heaven....
When Jesus Returns, He send His angels to gather His people to Him, for the Millennium; on earth. Matthew 24:31
It is a seriously bad addition to scripture to think this means Christians go to heaven.
 
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Douggg

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1 Thessalonians 4:16 WHEN.....the Lord Himself descends form heaven....
Jesus will be in heaven while the great tribulation takes place here on earth. And them caught up (raptured) and resurrected will be there in heaven with Him.
 
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keras

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Jesus will be in heaven while the great tribulation takes place here on earth. And them caught up (raptured) and resurrected will be there in heaven with Him.
A false teaching of the first magnitude. Nowhere does the Bible say anything of the kind.
Jesus is in heaven, yes; and He said that humans cannot go there. John 3:13, +

THIS is what He did say: Some will be imprisoned and some will be killed, but all must endure and remain faithful until the end. Revelation 13:10
 
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Douggg

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A false teaching of the first magnitude. Nowhere does the Bible say anything of the kind.
Jesus is in heaven, yes; and He said that humans cannot go there. John 3:13, +

THIS is what He did say: Some will be imprisoned and some will be killed, but all must endure and remain faithful until the end. Revelation 13:10
Jesus did not say humans can't go to heaven in John 3:13. He was saying that no one has ascended to heaven to know what was going on there.

John 3:12 If I told you earthly things and ye believe not, how shall ye believe if I tell you heavenly things?

13 And no one hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended out of heaven, [even] the Son of man, who is in heaven.

It will be in incorruptible eternal bodies that them in the rapture/resurrection will be taken to heaven.
 
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keras

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It will be in incorruptible eternal bodies that them in the rapture/resurrection will be taken to heaven.
Fanciful dreams.
There is no scripture that says there will be a ‘rapture’, but there is plenty saying such a thing is impossible:

John 3:13 No one goes to heaven, except the One who came from there.
This verse is a plain irrefutable statement, making it mean anything other than waht it says is a serious error.

John 7:34 Where I go, you cannot come....

John 8:21-23 Your home is on earth......

John 17:15 I do not pray for You to take My followers out of the world, but keep them from the evil one.

Revelation 2:25-26 Hold fast to what you have until I Return. To those who are Victorious, to those who persevere in doing My will until the end, I will give them authority over the nations. Revelation 5:9-10

I wait for you to give real scriptural proof of people going to live in heaven. Until then I continue to call you out for false teachings.
 
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Douggg

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Fanciful dreams.
There is no scripture that says there will be a ‘rapture’, but there is plenty saying such a thing is impossible:

John 3:13 No one goes to heaven, except the One who came from there.
This verse is a plain irrefutable statement, making it mean anything other than waht it says is a serious error.

John 7:34 Where I go, you cannot come....

John 8:21-23 Your home is on earth......

John 17:15 I do not pray for You to take My followers out of the world, but keep them from the evil one.

Revelation 2:25-26 Hold fast to what you have until I Return. To those who are Victorious, to those who persevere in doing My will until the end, I will give them authority over the nations. Revelation 5:9-10

I wait for you to give real scriptural proof of people going to live in heaven. Until then I continue to call you out for false teachings.
None of those verses are talking about Christians when they are in their incorruptible eternal bodies.

In 1Corinthians15:46-53, Paul calls the incorruptible eternal bodies heavenly, differentiating them from the earthly bodies of the natural man. Christians in 1Thessalonians4:15-18 asleep in Christ will be resurrected in eternal incorruptible heavenly bodies and them alive at the time will be changed likewise in the twinkling of an eye, and go with Jesus to heaven while the great tribulation takes place here on earth.

You are not going to find anything that says Christians in their incorruptible eternal heavenly bodies don't go to heaven.

At the close of the great tribulation, in Revelation 19:14, they are the armies of heaven that return to earth with Jesus.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
 
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keras

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None of those verses are talking about Christians when they are in their incorruptible eternal bodies.

In 1Corinthians15:46-53, Paul calls the incorruptible eternal bodies heavenly, differentiating them from the earthly bodies of the natural man. Christians in 1Thessalonians4:15-18 asleep in Christ will be resurrected in eternal incorruptible heavenly bodies and them alive at the time will be changed likewise in the twinkling of an eye, and go with Jesus to heaven while the great tribulation takes place here on earth.

You are not going to find anything that says Christians in their incorruptible eternal heavenly bodies don't go to heaven.

At the close of the great tribulation, in Revelation 19:14, they are the armies of heaven that return to earth with Jesus.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
More speculation and Douggishness.
Immortality is NOT given until after the Millennium, when it all over and Eternity for those worthy commences.
1 Corinthians 15:50-56 prophesies about that.
We NEVER go to heaven, after the Millennium, God come to dwell with mankind, on earth. Revelation 21:1-7

It is way beyond Star Wars and Starship Enterprise material to think we Christians will ride white horses and accompany Jesus at His Return. Totally unbelievable!
Scripture is plain; we must endure, here on earth- until the end. Matthew 24:13

I suggest, Dougg; that you seriously reconsider your beliefs.
If that is too hard for yo, at least cease promoting anything that you can't prove with scripture. Remember; James 3:1
 
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Douggg

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Immortality is NOT given until after the Millennium, when it all over and Eternity for those worthy commences.
To certain people, who stand before the Great White Throne Judgement. Differently, them who experience the rapture/resurrection, over a thousand years earlier, and to take place before the beginning of the Day of the Lord, they receive eternal incorruptible heavenly bodies then, and go to heaven with Jesus, to be with Jesus in heaven while the great tribulation takes place here on earth, and return with Jesus to this present earth at the close of the great tribulation.

Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

The point is that they are in heaven.
 
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DavidPT

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At the close of the great tribulation, in Revelation 19:14, they are the armies of heaven that return to earth with Jesus.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Or they could be these instead.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Then as they are descending, thus still in the air, they are next joined by these---

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Where we then end up with this---

Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
 
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BABerean2

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Revelation 11:18 is not about the judgment of the dead to take place in Revelation 20, the Great White Throne judgment. Revelation 11:18 is about the prophets and saints who will be in heaven at that time.


Then why do we have "the nations" which are "angry", and "wrath" and also "destruction" in the verse, if it is only about those in heaven?

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

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