Do prayers have to end with Amen?

dzheremi · Oct 11, 2019

Doesn't this discussion of law(s) belong in some other thread? It seems like it does, since it's separate from the question of ending prayers with "Amen". I highly doubt the OP was asking "Will I suffer eternal spiritual repercussions for ending or not ending my prayers with the word 'amen'?", and if anyone was to counsel him so he'd do well to avoid them.

Anyway, I like the link shared by Mathetes66 in post #15. It explains quite well what Christ meant by starting His statements that way. I would only add that as far as I've been taught (e.g., from the book "How to Benefit from the Holy Liturgy" by HG Bishop Mattaous of the Syrian monastery in Egypt, and just from paying attention to our liturgical prayers), when amen is used at the end our prayers, it means something more like "So be it" or "May it be so": an affirmation of what we have just prayed, but also while asking that it be fulfilled if it is God's will.

topher694 · Oct 11, 2019

devin553344 said:
So we need to say amen?

Nope, you don't need to say amen, but I don't see why you wouldn't.

dzheremi · Oct 11, 2019

devin553344 said:
So we need to say amen?

It is traditional to the point that it has been borrowed in unaltered to basically every language used by Christians, though some 'double up' on it by having it in the Greek/Hebrew and their native language, like we do at the end of every Coptic liturgy, where the people end their portion of the liturgy by praying "Amen Eseshobi" (Eseshobi is just the Coptic equivalent of Amen).

So I don't know if it as being some kind of law, but there isn't really anything else that has that same function. How else would you do it, especially considering that it's not "signing off" from the prayer, so much as ending whatever statement you are making? (So it's not the same saying "Okay, God, signing off from the night; I'll be back to pray more tomorrow"...more like switching to a different topic/focus as is appropriate for whatever the next thing you are going to pray is; this is how we can 'pray without ceasing', because we're never 'signing off' on God so much as keeping the conversation going by signalling when we're moving on to something else, just as a good conversationalist would in any context.)

SkyWriting · Oct 11, 2019

devin553344 said:
What does that mean? How do I die for doing it wrong. That seems important.

The only road to Hell is rejecting God's forgiveness.

devin553344 · Oct 11, 2019

SkyWriting said:
The only road to Hell is rejecting God's forgiveness.

The other road is accepting Gods forgiveness?

ewq1938 · Oct 11, 2019

Amen is just an old way to end or affirm something that was said. It is not a requirement and it doesn't make a prayer special or right when used, nor make a prayer wrong if not used. I think God just wants to hear from us, our own words and how we speak. I use it out of habit but sometimes I pray and do not use it.

High Fidelity · Oct 11, 2019

No we don't.

Besides, if god knows everything that was, is and will be and knows our hearts better than ourselves, he knows what we want to communicate before we do. Missing a word isn't going to change that.

redleghunter · Oct 11, 2019

devin553344 said:
I saw this and was wondering if prayers have to end with Amen?

Amen means “so be it” or “agree” in more modern use.

As used “so be it” makes sense when praying alone to God. Meaning you are offering your prayers in accordance to the will of God.

Anguspure · Oct 11, 2019

devin553344 said:
I saw this and was wondering if prayers have to end with Amen?

This is interesting on the topic:
6. AMEN

The Hebrew of the Old Testament reveals to us that the Scriptural Hebrew word (which means: so be it, or verily or surely) is “Amein” and not “Amen”. Likewise, the Greek equivalent in the Greek New Testament is also pronounced: “Amein”. Anyone can check on this in Stong’s Concordance, No. 543 in its Hebrew Lexicon, and No. 281 in its Greek Lexicon, or in Aaron Pick’s Dictionary of Old Testament Words for English Readers. Why then, has this Scriptural word “Amein” been rendered as “Amen” in our versions? Again we can see how the pagans have been made welcome, been conciliated, by adopting the name of pagan deity into the Church.

The Egyptians, including the Alexandrians, had been worshipping, or been aquainted with, the head of the Egyptian pantheon, Amen-Ra, the great Sun-deity, for more than 1 000 years, B.C.E. Before this deity became known as Amen-ra, he was only known as Amen among the Thebians. This substitution of “Amen” for “Amein” was greatly facilitated by the fact that this Egyptian deity’s name was pelt in Egyptian hieroglyphic language with only three letters: AMN, just as we find a similar poverty of vowels in the Scriptural Hebrew, which prior to its vowel-pointing by the Massoretes, also only spelt its AMEIN as : AMN. However, with the vowel-pointing by the Massoretes the Scriptural word has been preserved for us as AMEIN. On the other hand, the Egyptian deity AMN is rendered by various sources as AMEN, or AMUN, or as AMON. However, the most reliable Egyptologists and archaelogsits, such as Sir E.A. Wallis Budge,112 Dr. A.B. Cook,113 Prof. A Wiedemann, 114 Sir W.M.F. Petrie,115 and A.W. Shorter,116 as well as some authoritative dictionaries,117 all render the name of this Egyptian deity as AMEN. This AMEN was originally the Theban “hidden god who is in heaven”112 “the hidden one, probably meaning hidden sun”.118 Funk and Wagnalls, Standard College Dictionary, describes it, “AMEN: In Egyptian mythology, the god of life and procreation … later identified with the Sun-god as the supreme deity, and called ‘Amen-Ra’.” James Bonwick, Egyptian Belief and Modern Thought, repeatedly and frankly calls the Sun-deity of Egypt by its correct name: AMEN. He states on pp. 123-125, “AMEN … is in a sense, the chief deity of Egypt – supreme divinity. Whatever else he be, he must be accepted as the sun … the hidden god, the solar aspect is clear … there is the disk of the sun … the sun Amen … His identification with Baal … establishes him as a solar deity ….” Smith’s Bible Dictionary expresses AMEN as, “an Egyptian divinity … He was worshipped … as Amen-Ra, or ‘Amen the Sun’.” Herodotos recorded for us how the Greeks identified their Zeus with Amen-Ra.113

Yahushúa calls Himself “the Amein” in Rev. 3:14. Substituting a title or name of Yahushúa with the name o of the great hidden Sky-deity or the great Sun-deity of the Egyptians, Amen, is inconceivable! The difference is subtle, but it is there. By ending our prayers “Amen” instead of “Amein”, one could very well ask: Have we been misled to invoke the name of the Egyptian Sun-deity at the end of our prayers?"
Come Out Of Her My People

Rose_bud · Oct 11, 2019

Hi

Hope I understand your question… that if Amen is what we use to end our prayers, and we are commanded to pray without ceasing /or without end. Then we are not fulfilling the command to pray without ceasing….

But Amen means to agree or “so be it” … or what I would say when talking to a friend… I hear you… true that… like you said. Uh huh… right on… it’s all gestures/ words of agreements. It doesn’t mean the conversation ended, just means this portion of the dialogue is something we both agree on.

When it comes to prayer I think God knows when I agree with him or not.. it’s nice to hear it out loud… not for His sake, but for mine... :amen:

Oldmantook · Oct 11, 2019

Anguspure said:
This is interesting on the topic:
6. AMEN

The Hebrew of the Old Testament reveals to us that the Scriptural Hebrew word (which means: so be it, or verily or surely) is “Amein” and not “Amen”. Likewise, the Greek equivalent in the Greek New Testament is also pronounced: “Amein”. Anyone can check on this in Stong’s Concordance, No. 543 in its Hebrew Lexicon, and No. 281 in its Greek Lexicon, or in Aaron Pick’s Dictionary of Old Testament Words for English Readers. Why then, has this Scriptural word “Amein” been rendered as “Amen” in our versions? Again we can see how the pagans have been made welcome, been conciliated, by adopting the name of pagan deity into the Church.

The Egyptians, including the Alexandrians, had been worshipping, or been aquainted with, the head of the Egyptian pantheon, Amen-Ra, the great Sun-deity, for more than 1 000 years, B.C.E. Before this deity became known as Amen-ra, he was only known as Amen among the Thebians. This substitution of “Amen” for “Amein” was greatly facilitated by the fact that this Egyptian deity’s name was pelt in Egyptian hieroglyphic language with only three letters: AMN, just as we find a similar poverty of vowels in the Scriptural Hebrew, which prior to its vowel-pointing by the Massoretes, also only spelt its AMEIN as : AMN. However, with the vowel-pointing by the Massoretes the Scriptural word has been preserved for us as AMEIN. On the other hand, the Egyptian deity AMN is rendered by various sources as AMEN, or AMUN, or as AMON. However, the most reliable Egyptologists and archaelogsits, such as Sir E.A. Wallis Budge,112 Dr. A.B. Cook,113 Prof. A Wiedemann, 114 Sir W.M.F. Petrie,115 and A.W. Shorter,116 as well as some authoritative dictionaries,117 all render the name of this Egyptian deity as AMEN. This AMEN was originally the Theban “hidden god who is in heaven”112 “the hidden one, probably meaning hidden sun”.118 Funk and Wagnalls, Standard College Dictionary, describes it, “AMEN: In Egyptian mythology, the god of life and procreation … later identified with the Sun-god as the supreme deity, and called ‘Amen-Ra’.” James Bonwick, Egyptian Belief and Modern Thought, repeatedly and frankly calls the Sun-deity of Egypt by its correct name: AMEN. He states on pp. 123-125, “AMEN … is in a sense, the chief deity of Egypt – supreme divinity. Whatever else he be, he must be accepted as the sun … the hidden god, the solar aspect is clear … there is the disk of the sun … the sun Amen … His identification with Baal … establishes him as a solar deity ….” Smith’s Bible Dictionary expresses AMEN as, “an Egyptian divinity … He was worshipped … as Amen-Ra, or ‘Amen the Sun’.” Herodotos recorded for us how the Greeks identified their Zeus with Amen-Ra.113

Yahushúa calls Himself “the Amein” in Rev. 3:14. Substituting a title or name of Yahushúa with the name o of the great hidden Sky-deity or the great Sun-deity of the Egyptians, Amen, is inconceivable! The difference is subtle, but it is there. By ending our prayers “Amen” instead of “Amein”, one could very well ask: Have we been misled to invoke the name of the Egyptian Sun-deity at the end of our prayers?"
Come Out Of Her My People

Yes, pagan influences abound but we continue to follow our religious traditions without any knowledge of how they came into being. Ignorance is not bliss in this case.
Should we say Amen, Ahmein, Amein or Omaine? – Yahweh’s House Ministries

devin553344 · Oct 11, 2019

Oldmantook said:
Yes, pagan influences abound but we continue to follow our religious traditions without any knowledge of how they came into being. Ignorance is not bliss in this case.
Should we say Amen, Ahmein, Amein or Omaine? – Yahweh’s House Ministries

I see your point

Anguspure · Oct 11, 2019

Oldmantook said:
Yes, pagan influences abound but we continue to follow our religious traditions without any knowledge of how they came into being. Ignorance is not bliss in this case.
Should we say Amen, Ahmein, Amein or Omaine? – Yahweh’s House Ministries

Actually I disagree (about whether ignorance is bliss).
I think that if we have to be fearful of the things we do not know then we are not leaning on His Grace and mercy. It is the things that we do know, only to well, that we should perhaps be a little fearful of. When we willingly do the wrong thing, then we are in danger.
Better to be like little children and ignorant of the monsters in the dark that our Father protects us from (even though it is our behavior that attracts them) than to be full of knowledge and obligated to get a few things right at the risk of loosing all.
Not that I think any of us really know what we do, and our Yeshua still mediates for our forgiveness.

Oldmantook · Oct 11, 2019

Anguspure said:
Actually I disagree (about whether ignorance is bliss).
I think that if we have to be fearful of the things we do not know then we are not leaning on His Grace and mercy. It is the things that we do know, only to well, that we should perhaps be a little fearful of. When we willingly do the wrong thing, then we are in danger.
Better to be like little children and ignorant of the monsters in the dark that our Father protects us from (even though it is our behavior that attracts them) than to be full of knowledge and obligated to get a few things right at the risk of loosing all.
Not that I think any of us really know what we do, and our Yeshua still mediates for our forgiveness.

God does forgive but we also have the responsibility of knowing why we do the things we do. Is it scriptural or is it based on religious tradition? And if it is tradition, then what is the origin of that tradition - as far as it can be determined. If the religious practice/tradition has pagan or occultic origins, then we should not ignore it and continue to practice our traditional way of doing things - just because it has always been done that way. The Father does not always protect us from our own ignorance. For example, a Christian could ignorantly participate in a Ouija board session not knowing that such a practice gives the devil an open door to establishing a foothold/stronghold in that person's life. God is certainly able to forgive but sin has it's consequences and we both know the devil "doesn't play fair."

Anguspure · Oct 11, 2019

Oldmantook said:
God does forgive but we also have the responsibility of knowing why we do the things we do. Is it scriptural or is it based on religious tradition? And if it is tradition, then what is the origin of that tradition - as far as it can be determined. If the religious practice/tradition has pagan or occultic origins, then we should not ignore it and continue to practice our traditional way of doing things - just because it has always been done that way. The Father does not always protect us from our own ignorance. For example, a Christian could ignorantly participate in a Ouija board session not knowing that such a practice gives the devil an open door to establishing a foothold/stronghold in that person's life. God is certainly able to forgive but sin has it's consequences and we both know the devil "doesn't play fair."

Consequences are inevitable, you are right, and when he makes us aware of something then we should pay attention. We know it at that point, after all.
But the things He gives us to go on with are much more difficult than head knowledge, and those of us who enjoy a bit of intellectual stuff often find it easier to fill our lives with the love of knowledge rather than Loving our neighbor.
There I think is our challenge, and no amount of knowing what word or what name to use is going to make much difference when we are found to have not fed, clothed, visited etc the least among us and learnt that it was Him that we left out in the cold. Won't matter much then what we called Him.

So far as eternal security is concerned, in terms of things that we do not know (because we are to busy following His command), there we have the grace of Yeshua to be confident in.

tampasteve · Oct 11, 2019

MOD HAT ON

This thread has been moved to a more appropriate forum.

MOD HAT OFF

ByTheSpirit · Oct 11, 2019

Amen is just an affirmation of what has been said. Its not necessary. God doesn't ignore our prayers if we don't say amen.

I often speak with God as though he were standing right next to me and just a normal individual like me.

Anthony2019 · Oct 11, 2019

High Fidelity said:
No we don't.

Besides, if god knows everything that was, is and will be and knows our hearts better than ourselves, he knows what we want to communicate before we do. Missing a word isn't going to change that.

Amen!

devin553344 · Oct 11, 2019

ByTheSpirit said:
Amen is just an affirmation of what has been said. Its not necessary. God doesn't ignore our prayers if we don't say amen.

I often speak with God as though he were standing right next to me and just a normal individual like me.

Yeah I still say amen, I think your way is better

RaymondG · Oct 11, 2019

devin553344 said:
I saw this and was wondering if prayers have to end with Amen?

It is best not to take others word for this. This can easily be tested.

Ask the Father for something one time with Amen.....see if you get it.......Then after a week (or how ever long it usually takes for your prayers to get answered) and try asking again without the Amen......and, of course ask for a different item if you received the first item with the Amen.

Report back with the results so we all can learn.

Do prayers have to end with Amen?

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