RAPTURE!! OR LEFT BEHIND????

ebedmelech · Oct 10, 2019

ewq1938 said:
No, he doesn't.

Follow the passage:

As they leave the temple they point out to Jesus the buildings of the temple, and the Lord basically tells them everything they see will be destroyed with not one stone left upon another. Jesus sits down on the Mount of Olives, and they ask Him "when shall all these things be"? Now...are you saying that question is not related to what Jesus had just told them? If so I see why you have some of the views you do.

ewq1938 said:
I also see you have nothing to say about the fact that the temple and city are not destroyed in the OD nor in the related passages of Rev.

That's because it's just about useless to point these things out to you. Have you read Lukes version of this? Luke's Gospel is basically written for Gentiles...and Luke spells it out pretty clear at Luke 21:20:

20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near.

When it comes to Revelation, you have to recognize the imagery in Revelation. For instance...Revelation 18:21-24 is painting the picture for you:
21 Then a strong angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, “So will Babylon, the great city, be thrown down with violence, and will not be found any longer.
22 And the sound of harpists and musicians and flute-players and trumpeters will not be heard in you any longer; and no craftsman of any craft will be found in you any longer; and the sound of a mill will not be heard in you any longer;
23 and the light of a lamp will not shine in you any longer; and the voice of the bridegroom and bride will not be heard in you any longer; for your merchants were the great men of the earth, because all the nations were deceived by your sorcery.
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth.”

Much more can be said...but you don't even get that Babylon is the name the Lord is giving Jerusalem for all it's idolatry it has committed, so you cant see it.

ewq1938 · Oct 11, 2019

ebedmelech said:
Follow the passage:

As they leave the temple they point out to Jesus the buildings of the temple, and the Lord basically tells them everything they see will be destroyed with not one stone left upon another. Jesus sits down on the Mount of Olives, and they ask Him "when shall all these things be"? Now...are you saying that question is not related to what Jesus had just told them?

The walk was an hour long. What is important here is what Christ said on the mount which, again, had nothing to do with the temple being destroyed and as I have said, Rev also does not support your interpretation of all this since there the city is not destroyed at any point of the great trib.

That's because it's just about useless to point these things out to you. Have you read Lukes version of this? Luke's Gospel is basically written for Gentiles...and Luke spells it out pretty clear at Luke 21:20:

20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near.

Yes it will be desolated but not destroyed. It's a spiritual condition because the AC will rule from Jerusalem.

Much more can be said...but you don't even get that Babylon is the name the Lord is giving Jerusalem for all it's idolatry it has committed, so you cant see it.

Jerusalem is never called Babylon because it isn't Babylon.

ebedmelech · Oct 11, 2019

ewq1938 said:
The walk was an hour long. What is important here is what Christ said on the mount which, again, had nothing to do with the temple being destroyed and as I have said, Rev also does not support your interpretation of all this since there the city is not destroyed at any point of the great trib.

So why would the disciples ask "when shall these things be"...what "things" were they talking about?

ewq1938 said:
Yes it will be desolated but not destroyed. It's a spiritual condition because the AC will rule from Jerusalem.

The meaning of "desolation" is to lay waste. This is from Blue Letter Bible:
Desolate (Verb and Adjective), Desolation - Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words

Desolate (Verb and Adjective), Desolation: akin to A, No. 1, denotes "desolation,"

(a) in the sense of "making desolate," e.g., in the phrase "the abomination of desolation," Mat 24:15; Mar 13:14; the genitive is objective, "the abomination that makes desolate;"

(b) with stress upon the effect of the process, Luk 21:20, with reference to the "desolation" of Jerusalem.

Jerusalem was "laid waste" in 70 AD

ewq1938 said:
Jerusalem is never called Babylon because it isn't Babylon.

Not if you don't read Revelation as it is written. The book is written in symbolic language, it tells you that in Revelation 1:1...look up the word "communicated" or "signified" depending on the translation you use and see what it means. This is why a literal reading misses what's being said. It was you who said "Babylon means confusion"...and that is true. Israel had committed idolatry to their own confusion...to the point that they couldn't see their messiah, who is Jesus.

Try reading Micah 7:1-6. Perhaps you'll see the point. That's just one place God speaks of Israel being confused from idolatry

ewq1938 · Oct 11, 2019

ebedmelech said:
So why would the disciples ask "when shall these things be"...what "things" were they talking about?

We are going too far OT but I'll answer this.

We don't know what or if anything was said while walking from the temple to the mount. Most likely there was conversation. The important thing is what Christ. He never told them when the temple would be destroyed. Instead, he spoke solely about the great tribulation and his second coming and said one generation would see it all happen. Jerusalem is not destroyed in the GT, nor did Christ ever place it's destruction in the GT. Jerusalem is rebuilt and has been for a long time. When the GT starts, it will not be destroyed again except that 10 percent that falls in an earthquake. That leaves Jerusalem 90 percent standing and mostly undestroyed at the second coming.

ebedmelech · Oct 11, 2019

ewq1938 said:
We are going too far OT but I'll answer this.

You'll never understand Revelation if you don't get into the OT!!!

ewq1938 said:
We don't know what or if anything was said while walking from the temple to the mount. Most likely there was conversation. The important thing is what Christ. He never told them when the temple would be destroyed. Instead, he spoke solely about the great tribulation and his second coming and said one generation would see it all happen. Jerusalem is not destroyed in the GT, nor did Christ ever place it's destruction in the GT. Jerusalem is rebuilt and has been for a long time. When the GT starts, it will not be destroyed again except that 10 percent that falls in an earthquake. That leaves Jerusalem 90 percent standing and mostly undestroyed at the second coming.

Oh...well, at least I understand how you view this.

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 11, 2019

ewq1938 said: ↑
No, they are taken to Armageddon to witness the one sided battle. The one taken is taken up to the clouds, and follow Christ as he descends to Armageddon.

mmksparbud said: ↑
It is what Jesus says that matters---"Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
Good verse. I actually have a thread on it for those interested.

"WHERE THE BODY is, there the EAGLES be gathered" Matt 24 Luke 17-- and Revelation
Armageddon, Jerusalem 70AD...over 1 million Jews perished.....birds gathered at Jerusalem for great supper of God
[Revelation 19:17-18]

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:28 Where the eagles/vultures, there the corpse/carcass/body be

4430. ptoma a ruin, i.e. (specially), lifeless body (corpse, carrion):--dead body, carcase, corpse.

Matthew 24:28
for wherever the corpse<4430> may be, there shall the eagles/vultures<105> be gathered together<4863>.

4983 soma from 4982; the body (as a sound whole), used in a very wide application, literally or figuratively:--bodily, body, slave

Luke 17:37
And they answering say to him, 'Where, sir?' and He saith to them, 'Where the body<4983> is, there will the eagles/vultures<105> be gathered together<4863>.'[Revelation 18:13 Revelation 19:17-18]
===============================
Revelation 19
17 And I saw one Messenger standing in the sun, and He cries-out in great voice, saying to all the birds, the ones flying in mid-heaven, "hither! be ye being gathered!<4863> into the Supper of the Great God.
18 That ye may be eating fleshes of kings......

Revelation 18:13
“and cinnamon and incense, fragrant oil and frankincense, wine and oil, fine flour and wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots, and bodies<4983> and souls of men.

=====================================

iamlamad said:
This is a good history report. However, it has very little to do with the FUTURE events of Revelation: the trumpet and bowl judgments.

Are you saying Luke's Gospel has nothing to do with Revelation?
Are there any Preterists here that agree with the above post?

Captivity and sword Luke 21:24 Revelation 13:10

Luke 21:24
And they shall be falling to mouth of sword and they shall be being led captive into all the nations.
And Jerusalem shall be being trodden by nations until which may be being filled times of nations.
[Deuteronomy 28:68/Reve 11:2/13:10]

Revelation 13:10
If any to-captivity into captivity is going away.
If any in sword to be killed, is binding him in sword to be killed.
Here is the endurance<5281> and the faith of the Saints

ewq1938 · Oct 11, 2019

ebedmelech said:
You'll never understand Revelation if you don't get into the OT!!!

I said OT as "off topic" not "Old Testament".

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 13, 2019

ebedmelech said: ↑
So why would the disciples ask "when shall these things be"...what "things" were they talking about?

ewq1938 said: ↑
We are going too far OT but I'll answer this.

We don't know what or if anything was said while walking from the temple to the mount. Most likely there was conversation. The important thing is what Christ. He never told them when the temple would be destroyed. Instead, he spoke solely about the great tribulation and his second coming and said one generation would see it all happen. Jerusalem is not destroyed in the GT, nor did Christ ever place it's destruction in the GT. Jerusalem is rebuilt and has been for a long time. When the GT starts, it will not be destroyed again except that 10 percent that falls in an earthquake. That leaves Jerusalem 90 percent standing and mostly undestroyed at the second coming.

ebedmelech said:
You'll never understand Revelation if you don't get into the OT!!!
Oh...well, at least I understand how you view this.

ewq1938 said:
I said OT as "off topic" not "Old Testament".

Good clarification.
Note the 7th bowl in Revelation is poured out into the "air" where the Saints are raptured.....

1 Thessalonians 4:
16 That Himself, the Lord, in a calling-forth in voice of Arch Angel and in trumpet of God, shall be descending<2597> from heaven, and the dead-ones/nekroi <3498> in Christ shall be resurrecting/anasthsontai <450> first,
17 Thereupon we the living-ones, the ones remaining, same-time together to them shall be being caught away/arpaghsomeqa <726> (5691) in clouds to meeting of the Lord in air/aera <109>, and thus always together to Lord we shall be;
========
Reve 16:17 the seventh Messenger pours out His bowl/vial into the AIR....

Revelation 16:17
and the seventh Messenger pours out His bowl/vial into the air<109>
and came out great Voice from the Sanctuary of the heaven from the Throne saying "it has become!"<1096> [Revelation 21:6]

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RAPTURE!! OR LEFT BEHIND????

ebedmelech

My dog Micah in the pic

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ewq1938

I love you three.

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ebedmelech

My dog Micah in the pic

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ewq1938

I love you three.

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ebedmelech

My dog Micah in the pic

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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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ewq1938

I love you three.

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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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