Did the apostle Paul (Saul) have a Homosexual orientation?

Mark45 · Oct 10, 2019

Did the apostle Paul have a Homosexual orientation? Was it considered the thorn in his flesh (Paul’s homosexual feelings of desire) ? If so would it make any difference to the way we see Paul the apostle and understand his life and the scripture? Could this be a deeper way we can relate to other homosexuals as brothers in Christ, Elders in the Church etc ?

football5680 · Oct 10, 2019

redleghunter · Oct 10, 2019

CharismaticLady · Oct 10, 2019

Mark45 said:
Did the apostle Paul have a Homosexual orientation? Was it concerned the thorn in his flesh (Paul’s homosexual feelings of desire) ? If so would it make any difference to the way we see Paul the apostle and understand his life and the scripture? Could this be a deeper way we can relate to other homosexuals as brothers in Christ, Elders in the Church etc ?

Paul had been a Pharisee and they are married, so, no.

Paul's thorn in the flesh were false teachers and Judaizers trying to undermine the gospel. "Thorn in the flesh" is a Hebrew idiom like our "pain in the neck." It wasn't physical pain, but people. See Judges 2:3 " 3 Therefore I also said, ‘I will not drive them out before you; but they shall be thorns in your side, and their gods shall be a snare to you.’ ”

public hermit · Oct 10, 2019

Assuming it was the case, I still don't see why it would change anything. I can't be sure, obviously, but I am under the impression Paul was celibate. He seems to say as much. Assuming that was the case and that he had a homosexual orientation, then even the person who claims homosexual activity is a sin would have to accept him as having refrained and beyond their condemnation in that regard. Of course, there is a lot of assuming going on there. I doubt there is enough scriptural support for such a supposition to get much traction out of it.

Quid est Veritas? · Oct 10, 2019

No, I don't think so. My wife thinks he was asexual, or was deeply hurt by his wife.

Remember, he studied under Gamaliel of the School of Hillel. It was the custom for students of Hillel's school to all marry daughters of students of Shammai, and he came from a prominent family with Roman citizenship, so the odds that he was always unmarried or had never married are arguably low.

Lulav · Oct 10, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
Paul had been a Pharisee and they are married, so, no.

Paul's thorn in the flesh were false teachers and Judaizers trying to undermine the gospel. "Thorn in the flesh" is a Hebrew idiom like our "pain in the neck." It wasn't physical pain, but people. See Judges 2:3 " 3 Therefore I also said, ‘I will not drive them out before you; but they shall be thorns in your side, and their gods shall be a snare to you.’ ”

I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that. 8 Now to the unmarried and widows I say this: It is good for them to remain unmarried, as I am. 1 Cor 7-8

eleos1954 · Oct 10, 2019

Mark45 said:
Did the apostle Paul have a Homosexual orientation? Was it concerned the thorn in his flesh (Paul’s homosexual feelings of desire) ? If so would it make any difference to the way we see Paul the apostle and understand his life and the scripture? Could this be a deeper way we can relate to other homosexuals as brothers in Christ, Elders in the Church etc ?

2nd Corinthians 12:7

7 or with these surpassingly great revelations. So to keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me.

Paul struggled with sin just as we do and satan and his minions "attacked/haunted" him as well. Paul taught against sexual sins and lust. He even stated better for a man to not be married ... but if a man can't control himself then he should marry. Paul during his ministry was not married .... therefore it is more logical to believe he did NOT struggle with "lust/sexual" issues.

We take the apostles teaching(s) at their word ... inspired by God and learn from their experiences.

public hermit · Oct 10, 2019

Lulav said:
It is good for them to remain unmarried, as I am.

I'm pretty confident the word for "unmarried" (agamos) is used to refer to either the never-married or the divorced.

spiritualchristian7 · Oct 10, 2019

Evil plague our flesh.
heart&mind=deceitful
But desires can be redirected by God
That is, If the person himself is willing to change.

I'm saying this because there are homosexual Christians who have overcome their homosexuality through God.

Lulav · Oct 10, 2019

Chadrho said:
I'm pretty confident the word for "unmarried" (agamos) is used to refer to either the never-married or the divorced.

And? Not sure what your point is?

public hermit · Oct 10, 2019

Lulav said:
And? Not sure what your point is?

That was it.

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 10, 2019

Mark45 said:
Did the apostle Paul have a Homosexual orientation? Was it concerned the thorn in his flesh (Paul’s homosexual feelings of desire) ?

Absolutely not. (no). It is a sin against Christ Jesus and His Father in heaven to even suggest that or think that way. It is also totally opposed to and contrary to His Word.

Mark45 said:
If so would it make any difference to the way we see Paul the apostle and understand his life and the scripture? Could this be a deeper way we can relate to other homosexuals as brothers in Christ, Elders in the Church etc ?

There could be no "if so". And instead of "deeper way to relate" this op leads to being FURTHER AWAY from Jesus Christ and the Father's Will and His Way.

1213 · Oct 10, 2019

Mark45 said:
...If so would it make any difference to the way we see Paul the apostle and understand his life and the scripture? ...

I don’t know any reason to believe he was. And obviously, if he would have been, it would be really odd that he says:

Or don't you know that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don't be deceived. Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor extortioners, will inherit the Kingdom of God.
1 Cor. 6:9-10

For this reason, God gave them up to vile passions. For their women changed the natural function into that which is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural function of the woman, burned in their lust toward one another, men doing what is inappropriate with men, and receiving in themselves the due penalty of their error.
Romans 1:26-27

Kris Jordan · Oct 10, 2019

Mark45 said:
Did the apostle Paul have a Homosexual orientation? Was it concerned the thorn in his flesh (Paul’s homosexual feelings of desire) ? If so would it make any difference to the way we see Paul the apostle and understand his life and the scripture? Could this be a deeper way we can relate to other homosexuals as brothers in Christ, Elders in the Church etc ?

No, he did not.

Scripture does not tell us what Paul's thorn specifically was but there is nothing in Scripture to indicate Paul ever struggled with homosexuality whatsoever.

Furthermore, Paul told the Corinthians (in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11) that those who practice homosexuality will not inherit eternal life.

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

The good news is that these people were saved, cleansed, and delivered from the bondage of sin and unrighteousness by the blood of Jesus and through faith in Him!

Have you done the same, Mark45?

Lulav · Oct 10, 2019

The 'Thorn' was not about his sexuality.

It is plain by the text and context that he was speaking of something else. First he tells them about 'a man' (most likely himself) who went to heaven and saw things there he wouldn't speak of (quite the opposite of what John did in Revelation). To these things he was trying to stay humble and it seems apparent by the text that he was having a hard time doing so (he mentions that it was 14 years ago).

1 2 3 4 5 6

In verse 5 he mentions his infirmities--5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.

It really should be rendered as 'my weakness' as the following confirms this.

7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

IN other words,

So I should not become conceited from my receiving these revelations that were exceedingly superior to all others I was given a thorn in my flesh from a angel of Satan to keep me from becoming too conceited.

8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. 9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

It is clear that this 'thorn' was meant to keep him humble and not to think of himself as better than other from what he had been chosen to see. So after asking three times and basically being told 'no' because he needed it to be there in order to do the Lords will he then says he glories in that infirmity.

7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

The word used there 'to buffet' actually means to smack down, to put in one's place.

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 10, 2019

For this reason, God gave them up to vile passions. For their women changed the natural function into that which is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural function of the woman, burned in their lust toward one another, men doing what is inappropriate with men, and receiving in themselves the due penalty of their error.
Romans 1:26-27

Daniel9v9 · Oct 10, 2019

Regarding Paul's thorn in the flesh - It's not explicitly clear what this is, and it could be a spiritual attack or religious opposition, but throughout his epistles, we get little glimpses of him suffering a kind of ailment; perhaps impaired vision, which would have been a great burden in his ministry. Some have suggested that Paul had glaucoma or some other chronic health problem.

This would explain why Paul didn't recognise the high priest in Acts 23:1-5, and his comments in Galatians 4:14-15 and Galatians 6:11

Also, the word sometimes translated as "weakness" in 2 Corinthians 12:5 could also mean "disease".
cf. Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

Not David · Oct 10, 2019

No, the only one who believes that is John Shelby Spong to justify St. Paul's criticism of homosexuality as "self-hating".

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 10, 2019

David Neos said:
No, the only one who believes that is John Shelby Spong to justify St. Paul's criticism of homosexuality as "self-hating".

Thanks for the heads up, a possible origin of the abaominations thought of in and by the sons of disobedience subject to the prince of the power of the air.
I never heard of him before - did a quik check: >>>
Modern Day False Teachers | Monergism

Modern Day False Teachers | Monergism
Spong, John Shelby (1931-) Stanley, Andy [Marcionite, carnal Christianity] Sweet, Leonard [Emergent Church] Tenney, Tommy [Oneness Pentecostalism, Charismatic] Vines, Matthew [Liberal] Wallis, Jim [Progressive Christian, Left-Wing Political idolatry] Warren, Rick [Emergent Purpose Driven] ....

Rob Bell: False Teacher False Christianity Part 1 ...

Rob Bell: False Teacher False Christianity Part 1
Rob Bell: False Teacher False Christianity. Finally, is the God of the Bible one that would lie in saying that we are saved by grace through FAITH IN HIM when in reality we need no faith in Him at all as the Spong/Bell liberal false-Christians believe?

"False Prophet John Spong [Pretend Christian](FAKE, Hypocrit?) - YouTube
https www youtube . com/ watch?v= h2AvVH5boN4
This unsaved, foolish, fake christian is a false prophet! This video is unavailable."

Did the apostle Paul (Saul) have a Homosexual orientation?

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